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HuubL

HuubL

hunter-gatherer
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I don't expect you to read all this, but I'm a bit frustrated and want to air my thoughts.

I won two booklets on peebay from seller jmanos1. He seems to sell a lot of cards and small stuff, but recently he had some nice Leica gear for sale too. BEWARE of this seller!!

Here goes our conversation after I won the books.


270182056063, LEICA HARDBACK POCKET BOOK BY KISSELBACH, US $9,99, shipping in USA: US$ 5.99
270182047598, LEICA I,II,IIIF INSTRUCTION BOOK, US $9,99, shipping in USA: US$ 4.99


Me:
Hi, Yesterday I won this item and the Leica I, II, III manual. Could you please let me know the total cost including combined shipping to the Netherlands.
Thanks!
Regards, Huub


jmanos1 through Ebay:
_________________________________________________________________________
Objectnummer Objecttitel Aantal Prijs
270182056063 LEICA HARDBACK POCKET BOOK BY KISSELBACH 1 US $9,99
270182047598 LEICA I,II,IIIF INSTRUCTION BOOK 1 US $9,99


Subtotaal: US $19,98
Verzending via Vaste kosten standaard internationale verzending:
US $21,99

Totaal: US $41,97

PLEASE SEND PAYPAL ASAP THX, JIM
_________________________________________________________________________


Me:
The booklets arrived here safely. Thanks. A bit steep on the shipping and handling The postman brought it all the way here for $8.80, for which you received $21.99. That's a nice extra profit for two $9.99 items :(


jmanos1:
SORRY I AM THE PAYPAL FEE'S IN THERE FOR SELLING ITEMS THAT CHEAP. ALSO IT IS POSTED ON THE DESCRIPTION BEFORE YOU BID. LASTLY, I LIVE ALONG WAY FROM THE PO.THX, JIM


Me:
Well Jim, I didn't see 21.99 US$ being charged for shipping and handling. It says 4.99 for shipping in the US. There's no mentioning of the cost for shipping abroad.
Paypal fees are only 4% (80 cts) and you're not supposed to charge your customers for that according to Ebay rules.
I guess the Post office is equally far away for your US customors, but I suppose you don't charge them extra for that.
I don't feel like fighting over an amount like this, but it makes it difficult for me to give you positive feedback.


jmanos1:
SELLING OVERSEAS IS A PAIN IN THE ASS I HAVE TO FILL OUT FORMS AND I CANNOT GO TO THE AUTMATED DEVICE AT NIGHT. WITH THAT BEING SAID I HAVE TO GO TAKE TIME FROM MY DAY WAIT IN LINE ETC.. SORRY MOST PEOPLE DON'T SHIP INT'L, I DO BUT THATS THE DEAL SORRY. IF YOU BUY ANOTHER ONE I CAN DO FOR ALITTLE LESS TO MAKE YOU HAPPY. THX, JIM


I gave him feedback, one neutral and one positive.
He returned two negative feedbacks to me.


Me:
A bit revengeful, aren't you? I gave you one neutral and one positive and you returned two negatives!


jmanos1:
WELCOME TO EBAY...YOU SHOULD HAVE NEVER BID SHIPPING WAS CRYSTAL CLEAR. YOU GOT WHAT YOU DESERVE. THAT WAS A DUMB MOVE ON YOUR PART. I LIVE 12 MILES TO THE PO AND HAVE TO WAIT IN LINE EVERY TIME I AM THERE SHIPPING MATERIALS PACKING TIME ETC.... I VALUE THAT... YOUR TIME MUST BE VALUED LESS, PLUS THE SHIPPING WAS CRYSTAL CLEAR?

Me:
1. It was NOWHERE mentioned in the description that you were going to charge for driving to the PO and standing in line. It just mentioned 5.99 shipping in the USA. I gathered that would be a little higher for sending to Europe, but not 16 $ higher.

2. I immediately paid the requested total amount and never fussed about the high cost of handling. Only after it arrived here in a simple envelope that was shipped for 8.80$ I mailed you back that I found the shipping cost a bit on the high side.

3. On the two items you sold I gave you only one neutral feedback, while the other was positive. While you had nothing to complain about me handling the sale, you returned two negative feedbacks to me. That is what I call revengeful!


I don't expect hearing from him again.
He got some nice Leica gear for sale on Ebay the last couple of weeks. That's why I post this message.
 
Paypal sucks

Paypal sucks

ErikFive said:
I now have a case open in Paypal. He had 3000 feedbacks. I understand that some ebay sellers has alot to do, but there seems to be a lot of bad ones out there.
Click to expand...

Good luck with paypal :) . I've filed numbers of complaints to them and they never were useful. Bough a processor of ebay once, when I received it, it was the wrong speed wrong type, basically the auction was for something else, buyer wouldn't refund me... I paid over $20 for it, paypal got me back around $2.
 
ErikFive said:
Isnt this something that you can talk to ebay about? He cant give you negative feedback when you have done nothing wrong?
Click to expand...

No use to report this to Ebay. They won't do (they say "can't do") anything about it. I had a nice 100% pos feedback list on Ebay, well no more, I'm afraid :( Problem is, putative sellers/buyers only look at your %-age pos feedback. With 41 pos items (all worth pretty much more than the 1300 2.50 items of a guy like jmanos1) 2 negs really hurt. Stupid system!
 
You should be able at least to dispute/explain the feedback - I believe there is an option to comment on it.

Doesn't make it go away, but does give a chance for a rebut.
 
rogue_designer said:
You should be able at least to dispute/explain the feedback - I believe there is an option to comment on it.

Doesn't make it go away, but does give a chance for a rebut.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I did! I hope people believe it...
 
Maybe if feedback was only added to the site once both parties had posted. So once feedback from A and B was posted, both would have the feedback added. A wouldn't see B's feedback until A had left feedback etc. That would mean the feedback system would be less subjective.
 
Yep this is eBay. I make it a point to always check the shipping costs first and if they are too high, I have a choice to bid (and then grin and bear it - which I will do if I really want something or at least I take it into account in the maximum bid I make and low ball accordingly) Or if I think I am being jerked about I just do not bid. On the few occasions when I have bid and not checked and then been stiffed on the postage and handling I have just adopted the attitude that its my own fault. I took the risk and paid the price. On the other hand I think too many sellers now charge ridiculous fees for postage and handling and for this reason I often do not even bother bidding. I should add that I have noticed that when trying to buy camera gear from the US (I am in Australia) probably a good 80% of sellers will not sell internationally - even to Australia which is not known as being a country where scamming is rife. So I suppose the hoops they need to jump thru must be quite significant for them not to bother. From my persepctive it is the bottom line that counts - how much can I get an item for on eBay compared with how much would I have to pay if I walk into a local retailer in Australia. If the price is still significantly lower - even with inflated handling costs then I am better off biting the bullet and buying on eBay. I do think that him giving you a bad feedback report for complaining is "just not on." This is not what feedback reports are for. You are within your rights to complain to him if you were not happy with the service.
 
Ebay, to borrow a line from the movie industry, wants asses in seats. They don't care about anything else but making their buck. Something that might make a buyer pause before making a bid - something like a seller's 80% positive feedback rating - is not in their interest, so they do nothing to encourage anything but positive feedback. That's the American way, anyway, to make lemon out of lemonades, to put it politely. But I digress.

The feedback system isn't worthless, but it can't be taken at face value. Seller feedback is much more critical than buyer feedback. If a seller has anything less than 100% positive feedback, start checking the fine print. The odd negative feedback can be written off to the law of averages; there's bound to be a disgruntled seller here and there. But if there's a consistent pattern of neutrals and negatives, then check the comments. Buyer's put their own feedback at risk to leave a negative, in particular, so figure that for every negative left, there must be several other buyers who wanted to leave one, but didn't want to receive one in turn. See what they're saying.

I had my first bad experience on ebay recently. I got sloppy and relied on the seller's 99.4% positive feedback and placed my bid. Only later, after unanswered emails, filing a paypal dispute, etc., did I go back and see the clear warning signs. Comments like "no communication; won't answer emails; seller unresponsive."

After I received my paypal refund, I gave the seller a negative and promptly received mine in return. He then emailed me and offered me the blackmail option of "feedback mutually withdrawn," but I declined. That's the one you really need to check. If there's a significant number of "feedback mutually withdrawn" relative to the total number of feedback, then that seller is engaging in feedback blackmail, which ebay, thru their inaction, is evidently quite happy to allow. Those are the sellers you need to avoid, because that's just the tip of the iceberg.
 
I bought a screw mount viso II mirror housing and box from this seller.

On the plus side, I think I got a pretty good deal. $41 winning bid plus @ $10 shipping. It is in excellent condition.

Negatives - He never responded to my post sale emails and his shipping time was slower than most. Oh yeah he has a long way to go to get to the post office.

I agree the feedback system is very flawed. Even though I gave him a positive, I found myself strectching for something nice to say.
 
ebay is a waste of time and energy. i have had 3 lame experiences on it. i will never use it again. i advise others not to use it; it is all buyer beware in the raw market.

that said, i guess ebay brings out some of the worst, but it has also brought out some good. there is a reason 14 of my 17 transactions have worked out. so ebay is perhaps a reflection of humanity...most people are decent folks; some of the minority are a$$*oles?
 
peterm1 said:
Yep this is eBay. I make it a point to always check the shipping costs first and if they are too high, I have a choice to bid (and then grin and bear it - which I will do if I really want something or at least I take it into account in the maximum bid I make and low ball accordingly) Or if I think I am being jerked about I just do not bid. On the few occasions when I have bid and not checked and then been stiffed on the postage and handling I have just adopted the attitude that its my own fault. I took the risk and paid the price. On the other hand I think too many sellers now charge ridiculous fees for postage and handling and for this reason I often do not even bother bidding. I should add that I have noticed that when trying to buy camera gear from the US (I am in Australia) probably a good 80% of sellers will not sell internationally - even to Australia which is not known as being a country where scamming is rife. So I suppose the hoops they need to jump thru must be quite significant for them not to bother. From my persepctive it is the bottom line that counts - how much can I get an item for on eBay compared with how much would I have to pay if I walk into a local retailer in Australia. If the price is still significantly lower - even with inflated handling costs then I am better off biting the bullet and buying on eBay. I do think that him giving you a bad feedback report for complaining is "just not on." This is not what feedback reports are for. You are within your rights to complain to him if you were not happy with the service.
Click to expand...

Point is, he never posted overseas shipping costs before I won the bid.
He just got from adding to his shipping cost what he hoped his items would sell for AFTER I won the items.
 
thomasw_ said:
ebay is a waste of time and energy. i have had 3 lame experiences on it. i will never use it again. i advise others not to use it; it is all buyer beware in the raw market.

that said, i guess ebay brings out some of the worst, but it has also brought out some good. there is a reason 14 of my 17 transactions have worked out. so ebay is perhaps a reflection of humanity...most people are decent folks; some of the minority are a$$*oles?
Click to expand...

In my case thers's two out of fourty who will burn in hell. My very first Ebay item won was never delivered (Weston Master V).
 
What Nikon HS Webmaster said.

Ebay's system is indeed flawed. I use two ebay accounts; one to buy, and one to sell.

I never leave feedback as a seller, until buyer first leaves feedback. All my auctions offer money back guarantee, so no buyer has any reason to ever leave a negative. (I've only ever had one person want to return an item.) This pretty much guarantees 100% feedback, unless there is a buyer who is a little nuts, and that's something that can't be completely eliminated.

In any case, this method has served me well; I also make a point of serving buyers well. This means friendly prompt email replies, not curt, short delayed ones. It also includes absolutely accurate descriptions and quality close up photos of the items. And prompt shipment, good packaging, and no complaining about the post office being a pain in the ass (which it is.) Give me Fedex or DHL anyday.

As a buyer, I can leave negative feedback freely, if merited. If they give me a negative in return, it doesn't hurt my selling account.
 
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I have to side with the seller.

He said clearly he only ships to USA, you bid anyway.

If you had any questions pertaining to the shipping fees, this is something that should be asked by you before bidding.

While he may seem rude to you, he upheld his end of the bargain.

Things which should be resolved before you bid should not be debated after the fact.

PS: In your seller prefs, you can block bidders from countries to which you do not ship. This is the best way to prevent unwanted bidders from ignoring your terms.
 
Whatever he actually paid for the shipping is mostly irrelevant as you agreed to it, and you did not have to. The shipment cost he quoted was what he wanted to ship to you based on the shipping charge, the boxes, packing materials, time to pack it up, and time to go to the PO and stand in line. Again, you did not have to agree but you did and paid it.

Furthermore when he said "IF YOU BUY ANOTHER ONE I CAN DO FOR ALITTLE LESS TO MAKE YOU HAPPY. THX, JIM" he did seem to be trying to reconcile and diffuse the situation. His negs were a little harsh but you giving the neutral when you had indeed agreed to everything was not a very good idea either.
 
So easy to get burnt. I bought a watch winder once and it clearly stated in the description that the adapter is multi voltage. NOT! I gave negative feedback and I got negative feedback in return. Go figure. That account is now closed.

Recently, I got a new M-Hexanon 50mm lens. There was a clear shipping cost and it was US$18. After paying a premium for the new item and the shipping cost, I was blackmailed into paying an additional US$27 for shipping, on top of the $18 that I had already paid. I emailed the seller to say that this is wrong, or at least the caveats should be there for final cost calculation. NO REPLY! I gave positive feedback anyway since the item arrived in perfect condition, but the seller has not returned the favour for the feedback

Goes on and on....wrong items, etc.
 
ErikFive said:
Actually the seller should post feedback when I have done my part and my part is to bid on the item and pay in time. Then I have done a A+++transaction.
Click to expand...
Thats the way it should work,but,we all know better..........Robin
 
You're dealing with individuals, so you can't blame eBay as a whole. OK, so you get nickel and dimed once in a while or even burned.

On the other hand, eBay had allowed you to buy from a vast world market at lower prices than dealers, given you access to countless things you might never see otherwise, and brought countless treasures into the marketplace.

Not to mention allowing you to make money on your collectibles, cut out the dealers and middlemen, and connected you to everyone on earth. It's redefined the whole word of collecting, and given you a huge amount of freedom.

It's a marvel, and before you condemn the whole system because you had a few bad experiences, think of how it was before.
 
M. Valdemar said:
You're dealing with individuals, so you can't blame eBay as a whole. OK, so you get nickel and dimed once in a while or even burned.

On the other hand, eBay had allowed you to buy from a vast world market at lower prices than dealers, given you access to countless things you might never see otherwise, and brought countless treasures into the marketplace.

Not to mention allowing you to make money on your collectibles, cut out the dealers and middlemen, and connected you to everyone on earth. It's redefined the whole word of collecting, and given you a huge amount of freedom.

It's a marvel, and before you condemn the whole system because you had a few bad experiences, think of how it was before.
Click to expand...

Well said. And I simply cannot understand why people think it's clever or funny to call it "eboy" or "ePrey" or some other stupid name.

peebay was a new one! ;)
 
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