Well looks like everyone on YouTube got their New Toy!

Retro-Grouch said:
You are correct, Larry. My choice of calling this a case of "the emperor,s new clothes" is not apt. It was my hot-under-the-collar response to being described as bitter and negative; we seem to be living in a world where criticism of any sort is often frowned upon, whether true or not. It makes me a little crazy.
That being said, the Z9 is an astonishing piece of technology! But, like Godfrey, I have no wish or need to keep up with the newest or latest. I do wish the industry would do more for those of us with a different definition of better, but, as you point out, economics dictates what the new products will look like.
Sadly, I remember when Nikon did release products for the minority like me. The rangefinder re-issues of a few decades ago, the FM3, the long-continued production of the F3... all flew in the face of then-current trends. But the industry has changed utterly, and I realize that wanting such niche products (or their digital equivalents) is a pipe dream.
Click to expand...

Life would be less interesting without pipe dreams for quiet moments. Yes, I don't think Nikon is likely going to go back to the quixotic, and lovely, mindset that allowed the creation and production of the S3 and SP rangefinder reissues. Most likely because they lost their collective shirts on those, because no one at the time bought them, so that's on us. I'm on record as wanting them to do them again as digital versions, but they've got good reason to ignore me on that front. Let's just go take some photos with what we like (and already have:)) while the pros have something new to be excited about.
 
Retro-Grouch said:
Exactly. And exactly why I'm being "bitter" and "negative" (according to Timmyjoe) about a camera I wouldn't own or use. The Z9 is indicative of where the industry is trending, and I don't care for that direction. That affects me and all photographers, and I think we have a right and responsibility to voice our opinions without being shot down by name-callers. Sometimes the emperor has no clothes, and pointing that out is anything but negative.
No doubt Nikon has done the market research, and has created a camera that many pros will want, and will own. But many amateurs take their cues from the pros, and want the same or similar. The Z9 will doubtless be the impetus towards bigger cameras with an even more dizzying selection of questionably valuable features. That's quite the opposite of what many of us (though a minority) want from our equipment.
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I hope you understand I feel the same way as you… and i would think many of the other users of this site.
 
Retro-Grouch said:
Exactly. And exactly why I'm being "bitter" and "negative" (according to Timmyjoe) about a camera I wouldn't own or use. The Z9 is indicative of where the industry is trending, and I don't care for that direction. That affects me and all photographers, and I think we have a right and responsibility to voice our opinions without being shot down by name-callers. Sometimes the emperor has no clothes, and pointing that out is anything but negative.
No doubt Nikon has done the market research, and has created a camera that many pros will want, and will own. But many amateurs take their cues from the pros, and want the same or similar. The Z9 will doubtless be the impetus towards bigger cameras with an even more dizzying selection of questionably valuable features. That's quite the opposite of what many of us (though a minority) want from our equipment.
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I think if you are concerned about being perceived as "bitter" or "negative," perhaps "Retro-Grouch" may not have been the best choice for a screen name. But I don't disagree with any of your points, as I am a bit of a retro-grouch myself. I personally would very much prefer smaller cameras and smaller lenses, and do not need 40+ megapixels, superfast frame rates, or pretty much anything else the Z9 offers. However, it is a pretty amazing technical achievement for pros who need that level of performance.

I think the unfortunate thing is that ever since Nikon introduced the F5 as their top of the line pro body, every model since then, film and digital, has been a cheaper, feature-reduced version of the professional workhorse (with the exception of the FM3a and the limited production rangefinders). That's not necessarily the direction many users would choose to go.
 
Ccoppola82 said:
Totally agree. I’ve oddly been moving backwards in my camera acquisition. Lately for color I’ve been using an old 5d classic and I can’t really figure out what more I need for still work at Normal printing sizes than that. I think my most high tech is an EOS R that I bought for work but tbh I don’t enjoy using it. I get more enjoyment out of simple cameras. It seems most of the improvement comes in the way of AF accuracy and “dynamic range” or “high ISO”. AF could be important for certain applications. Dynamic range and high ISO ability tends to lead to bad photos in some cases. Flat or improperly exposed results. Some people tend to think there’s magic in older sensors…maybe. But another possibility is that the limitations of the camera in terms of ISO or dynamic range actually create stronger images than cameras being able to lift shadows into being brighter than the sun. I find this in painting as well. Limited palettes often create more pleasing results. I don’t think I will be buying new cameras until one that I use breaks. Even then it will be a top model from a few years ago.
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I feel the same. I have a EF 24mmf1.4L II I got for cheap $150.00 and someone dropped it with a camera and it was good for parts.
Well I got it up and running installing a new motor (thanks eBay) and it works and it's been sitting around until I found a body for it and
like you I found an older camera, EOS1DS and a really low price and it's great. It's more like a photography camera you just take pictures
and you just get that, the least bells and whistles.
 
Larry Cloetta said:
A few short months ago Nikon introduced the Z fc along with a smallish lens. So, maybe they are, with both cameras, not "trending" anywhere, but just addressing two very different perceived needs from two very different groups of photographers..
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Z fc is officially addressed to young hipsta. I, been older hipsta, checked what else Z DX has to match this oddly made beauty (it is missing A on dials). Just one more lens which is somewhat match to Z fc. Which is within this new, old paradigm of 40mm FOV as new old focal length. This is the red flag to me.
I have stepped into it already with RP. Canon promised small lenses and I went for RP. So far not so many, just two small lenses and they are ugly and just as useless as 28mm Nikkor on 1.5 Nikon crop...

By now it is very obvious what Canikons are scared by mobile phones taking over. They feel the only market sector is left is so called pro and wannabies. The gear dogma for those - it has to be huge and heavy with many dials and customizable buttons.

Yet, Leica is having ball on this Canikon stubbornness. Leica Camera AG makes overpriced, outdated digital Ms, which not only missing IBIS, but dust shake. Yet, they are selling it for same and more price as turkeys stuffed with electronics aka Z9, R3. With crazily overpriced, but not really different from x10, x20 less priced MiC primes.

Even FujiNoFilm has lost its momentum long time ago and just a niche now.
Wannabies were ditching Canikons DSLR in crowds for original X100. It was nowhere near to AF performance of Canon Rebel, but wannabies choice was to become hipsta after been fake pro.
But then FujiNoFilm lost it. They started to drive wannabe part instead of simplifying and keeping it elegant, which is next to one and only selling point for camera like digital M these days. And it sells for huge money.

Make is less, but elegant, you could sell for more.
 
Ko.Fe. said:
Z fc is officially addressed to young hipsta. I, been older hipsta, checked what else Z DX has to match this oddly made beauty (it is missing A on dials). Just one more lens which is somewhat match to Z fc. Which is within this new, old paradigm of 40mm FOV as new old focal length. This is the red flag to me.
I have stepped into it already with RP. Canon promised small lenses and I went for RP. So far not so many, just two small lenses and they are ugly and just as useless as 28mm Nikkor on 1.5 Nikon crop...

By now it is very obvious what Canikons are scared by mobile phones taking over. They feel the only market sector is left is so called pro and wannabies. The gear dogma for those - it has to be huge and heavy with many dials and customizable buttons.

Yet, Leica is having ball on this Canikon stubbornness. Leica Camera AG makes overpriced, outdated digital Ms, which not only missing IBIS, but dust shake. Yet, they are selling it for same and more price as turkeys stuffed with electronics aka Z9, R3. With crazily overpriced, but not really different from x10, x20 less priced MiC primes.

Even FujiNoFilm has lost its momentum long time ago and just a niche now.
Wannabies were ditching Canikons DSLR in crowds for original X100. It was nowhere near to AF performance of Canon Rebel, but wannabies choice was to become hipsta after been fake pro.
But then FujiNoFilm lost it. They started to drive wannabe part instead of simplifying and keeping it elegant, which is next to one and only selling point for camera like digital M these days. And it sells for huge money.

Make is less, but elegant, you could sell for more.
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In all fairness, there are not too many cameras that you do like these days.
 
In all fairness, though Ko.Fe. does have some strong opinions on things, there aren't many cameras to like these days. For my taste, at least. I do need to add that qualification!
 
I honestly feel the same way. I basically like a few things that Leica, Fuji, and Ricoh make and not much else.
 
Protected sensor when the lens is removed. Finally!!! Way too late.
Electronic shutter only.
I bet all forthcoming cameras will soon have these same features.
My next and last digital must have a protected sensor.
 
Having owned a Z6 for the last two years, and being still amazed with its features (I love using the touch focus ability), last week I bought a new D780. After seeing the out-of-the-camera black and white, and realizing the same features from the Z6 + I can use all my AIS, AFD, and AFG lenses adapter free, I am even going to finally part with my M8. The Z6 and D780 approach my M9 in image quality….although not quite Kodachrome-like if that is what I’m looking for. The benefits of new technology such as Z9 will influence lesser models in years to come. The D780 uses AF algorithms developed for the D6, low light focusing is amazing. So if Nikon wants to hype the result of years of research and development I’m all for it and I hope they are going to focus on a successor soon.
 
Dogman said:
The Z9 is the pro model of the mirrorless Nikons. There's about 14 people who need it and 14 million who talk about it.
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True, maybe 14 pros need it. But the majority of pro cameras are sold to amateurs who want them. The pro models wouldn't be economically viable without the large volume of amateur purchasers. Whenever I hang out in a touristy area (not often, if I can avoid it), I'm struck by the number of folks wielding the top models who are making snapshots that could more easily be done with their phones. And all of them are surreptitiously eyeing the other folks' cameras to see who's got the latest/biggest/most expensive.
 
I'm sure it's a great camera but I don't need all that stuff on it to take good pictures, I mean 20 fps wow, that's really great for sports
or other things.
 
Nikon already making 35,000 Z9 cameras per month, there are 400,000 preorders. 400,000 x $5,500 = $2,200,000,000. Some of those preorders are doubles, but this is after one week, those will be more than offset by others who decide to get one today or later. It’s okay not to need one, or want one, but it’s projecting to claim that other people we don’t even know don’t need one. Granted, nobody at all “needs” a camera of any kind, but this thing opens up a lot of creative possibilities for people, and a lot of people are starting to realize that, if not everyone.


https://nikonrumors.com/2021/11/05/...rders-plus-more-z9-coverage.aspx/#more-163173
 
"Am reminded of William Safire’s phrase about 'the nattering nabobs of negativism'."
Larry, pretty sure speech writer at the time, Pat Buchanan, wrote it, Spiro Agnew said it.
Blame where blame is due. :)
 
These numbers really don't mean much without knowing what their margins are.

Jim B.
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400,000 preorders the first week don’t really mean much? From a company that people have been trying to write off for dead for the last three years? I don’t know, I thought it meant something, especially in light of some of the earlier comments here.
Industry norms are historically around 20% margin, which would be $400 million, which would be big for a company Nikon’s size. Anyway, it’s a boatload of cameras.
People here are forever saying, “So, and so needs to spend more time and effort on lower end cameras that people can afford.” That’s hasn’t made a bit of sense, if you are a camera company, for a decade. The lower end camera is a phone, and people already have one.
All I am suggesting is that the position of, “it’s too big”, “it’s too specialized”, “it’s too expensive”, “it’s only for pros who shoot the O,ympics”, “the legitimate market for this kind of thing is pretty small”, “nobody needs this”, that position here in our niche, may have been off a bit. A lot of sales for something hardly anyone has even held in their hands. Fastest selling body in Nikon’s history, apparently, so am still thinking that’s not nothing, or irrelevant.
 
"Am reminded of William Safire’s phrase about 'the nattering nabobs of negativism'."
Larry, pretty sure speech writer at the time, Pat Buchanan, wrote it, Spiro Agnew said it.
Blame where blame is due. :)
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https://politicaldictionary.com/words/nattering-nabobs-of-negativism/

I’m unfortunately old enough to have been amused by it when it came out of his mouth. Safire could turn a phrase, and he penned several more of note. They were so good, I’d never dare to plagiarize them, as I’m too obviously incapable.
But, I’m happy there’s someone here who at least remembers who said it.
 
Larry Cloetta said:
Nikon already making 35,000 Z9 cameras per month, there are 400,000 preorders. 400,000 x $5,500 = $2,200,000,000. Some of those preorders are doubles, but this is after one week, those will be more than offset by others who decide to get one today or later. It’s okay not to need one, or want one, but it’s projecting to claim that other people we don’t even know don’t need one. Granted, nobody at all “needs” a camera of any kind, but this thing opens up a lot of creative possibilities for people, and a lot of people are starting to realize that, if not everyone.


https://nikonrumors.com/2021/11/05/...rders-plus-more-z9-coverage.aspx/#more-163173
Click to expand...

I heard that Nikon's orders for the Z9 (I don't know where these get the ZED from) are double now than for Canon. I guess everyone has been waiting
for this camera, which is good for Nikon.
 
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