What 35mm rangefinder for a RF newbie?

M

marlinspike

Guest
I'm a photo hobbyist/semi-pro, and I use a canon dSLR and have never used anything other than an SLR except for the occasional point and shoot. Anways, I want to get a rangefinder mainly because I want something quieter, more compact, and hardier than an SLR, partly because it's something different to learn about, and partly because I want to go as opposity as digital and SLR as possible. I was thinking about a contax IIIa, but what I would really is something similar but with a rapid advance lever. Here are my requirements in something of a top to bottom order

a good rangefinder camera that makes use of good glass
no batteries what-so-ever
built in light meter
rugger and reliable
quiet compared to an SLR
under $500 with a fast 50mm lens
availability of other focal lengths (35mm, 135mm, and something wider than 35mm too) at not super expensive prices
not cumbersome film loading
a rapid advance lever
That's all I can think of right now.
So what are your recommendations?
Thanks,
Richard
 
Well, you can't have built in light meter that operates without battery unless you buy one with built in selenium meter but AFAIK, there has not been new camera with selenium meter manufactured in the past 3 decades. If you meant battery operated light meter but still maintain operation (no meter) when batteries go dry, that's a different story.

Quiet compared to SLR: which SLR are you going to compare it to? My Bessa R2 is quiet compared to my EOS 3, especially when PB-E2 is not attached, but EOS30 (had one) is quieter than the R2. Nikon F80 is even quieter than EOS30 and I heard EOS 20D is on par with F80.

Under $500 with a fast 50mm: new or used?

Recommendation: looks like second hand Cosina Voigtlander is the only viable option to me but you have to sacrifice quietness and 135mm.
 
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I was thinking in terms of meter working without battery: selium meter, which means I was also thinking in terms of something old. And quietness in comparison to EOS 3 let's say. I really do like the Contax IIIa, but I also really do like a quick advance lever.
Thanks,
Richard
 
The FABULOUS Voigtlander Prominent, "Second Model," with an advance lever.

Oh, wait, it's double-stroke. Ah, well.

Actually, it misses quite a bit of what you want. Rats.

I'd go with a working Kiev from one of the reliable sales-folk. It's film loading is fast, if you tape the spools in advance. Get a Kiev 5 if you REALLY want a lever wind. Cheap. Easy to use. Pretty bloody reliable, if you get a pretty bloody reliable one, and if you decide you DON'T like the film workflow, you are out dinner at a decent restaurant, or a couple tanks of gas.
 
I thought the Kiev 4 is the one that leaves you only out a dinner? Anyways, I don't plan on doing my own developing, so there won't be any real film workflow for me. Though at some point I might be making my own prints from negatives developed by a store that does that. Anyways, I rather not buy a camera with the intention to upgrade (at least not a film camera...digital is always changing so I'm fine with buying those with the intention to upgrade).
Richard
 
The only thing that really fits your description (as far as I can tell) is something like a Bessa R or R2, but you are stretching it with respect to affording a lens with it unless you are buying used (which is perfectly fine). You are not going to find any interchangeable lens rangefinder with a built in selenium meter that still works. You just won't. Just get one with a built in meter like the Bessa -- they only go through a battery a year or so, or less. The voigtlander lenses are of excellent quality, cheap, and the camera is fairly reliable. It is quieter than an SLR, has swing back loading, and a single stroke advance with optional trigger winder. You also have access to 80 years of lenses in Leica thread mount and Leica M mount, including the best glass every made for 35mm cameras.
 
Stuart,
Granted it's not a rangefinder, but I have an old Zeiss Contina III with a stuck shutter that has a still accurate meter. Also, the battery thing is sorta a deal breaker. I may just go with a Contax IIIa and forget about the whole lever advance. What I'd really like is something like the contina III, only a rangefinder with interchangeable lenses.
Richard
 
Well, just to warn you if you are not already aware, most vintage selenium meters are inaccurate, even if they are working. Add to that very poor low light performance...what good is a fast 50 if your meter can't read in that light? You can have your meter refurbished at Quality Light Metric in LA if you like, but it will cost about 100 bucks or so (at least that is what it costs for a Leica MC meter). But really, you can fit twenty years worth of batteries in a single cannister of film, I don't get why it is a problem...is it the principle? If it is the principle, why not just not bother with the batteries at all, get something like a Leica III and use sunny 16 with a B&W negative film? Then you will really be hardcore and at the opposite end as digital.
 
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Re: Why a Reflected Light Meter?

Re: Why a Reflected Light Meter?

Honu-Hugger said:
... I am firmly convinced that an incident light or spot meter is the only accurate way to go, unless you carry an 18% gray card with you....
D2
Click to expand...

How if you're standing under no cover and want to photograph a lion having a nap under the shadow of a tree? Are you really going to get close to meter the light where the lion is?

This example of course is easy; under open shadow -> f/5.6 but how about other situation where you can't reach the subject and under different light condition? I'll take built in meter any time and dial exposure compensation depending on the colour of whatever I'm taking the reading from.
 
aizan said:
easy: canon 7. (scroll down)
Click to expand...

aizan is on to something here. You will have to shop to find one with a working meter, and you may use up every bit of that $500, but being that you are after an older camera to use, it will be a very good idea to have it CLA'd immediately, which will bump you over $500 for just about any camera that you find.
 
Maybe a Kodak Retina iiic ? :)
It does have interchangeable lenses...although only from 35 to 80 mm...The 50mm Xenon is a great f/2 lens... It has light meter, it can still work if you're lucky... It's a rangefinder...I'm not sure but i think it's with lever wind... all the other points are more or less satisfyed - plus it's pocketable since it's a folder...

In fact, i know somebody selling a retina iiic for 150$ max, including three lenses (35, 50, 80) and some accessories. Would you be interested? (Please check on the Net the retina specifications first (Google), or ask here.)
 
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I'm a young'un, so I grew up using reflected light meters and then dialing in exposure compensation, and I don't really care to learn to all the exposure guidelines. As far as the Kodak, thanks for letting me know about the sale, but not quite what I'm looking for. Either way, I don't have the money (well I do for the kodak, but not the others) right now, I have to shoot a couple more games first. I have to admit the Canon 7 is seeming more appealing that it didd before.
 
Something I think may be a mark against the canon is this: I've read about how the contax's huge baselength means a more accurate rangefinder. The canon (from pictures) doesn't seem to have as large a baselength. Is this the case and does this indeed make for a less accurate rangefinder?
Richard
 
Re: What 35mm rangefinder for a RF newbie?

marlinspike said:
...
a good rangefinder camera that makes use of good glass
no batteries what-so-ever
built in light meter
rugger and reliable
quiet compared to an SLR
under $500 with a fast 50mm lens
availability of other focal lengths (35mm, 135mm, and something wider than 35mm too) at not super expensive prices
not cumbersome film loading
a rapid advance lever
...
Click to expand...

Pretty much, what you're describing here is the canon 7 (great cameras BTW)
http://www.cameraquest.com/canon7sz.htm

However, as pointed out previously, the built-in selenium (battery-less) meter will almost certainly not be reliable after all these years. Selenium meter cells age, and this will be a problem with any camera old enough to have one. They can be replaced, but it's an expensive custom job these days.

I see your choices as being, (1) compromise on price, and have a custom cell made for a Canon 7. (2) compromise on having a built-in meter, (3) compromise on batteries, and get a Bessa R...(http://www.cameraquest.com/voigrf.htm), or compromise on nothing and travel back in time to 1970 ;) (http://freespace.virgin.net/steve.preston/Time.html)

Personally I think the Bessa is the best value, but you'll need an external viewfinder to handle a 135mm lens. That said, you may also find that a 135 isn't as desirable a lens to use in the rangefinder world.
 
Ok, here are the compromises I could make. I suppose I could do without the built-in meter as long as the camera has a hot (or cold) shoe, I could compromise a bit on price, and compromise on the 135 and say 90 instead? My initial reaction is Leica M3, but it can't go wider than 50mm apparently, and I'd like something that can go wider than 35mm.
Richard
 
marlinspike, if you are familiar with compensating for exposure after taking a reflective reading then it seems to me that you're already where you need to be. ALL reflective meters read everything as if it were an 18% gray card (or Zone 5, if you're familiar with the Zone System). Then it's a matter of deciding what compensation is needed to get the results you want.

Regardless, it will be interesting to see what you finally decide. You could do a lot worse than the Canon 7, IMO.

Walker
 
Re: Re: What 35mm rangefinder for a RF newbie?

Re: Re: What 35mm rangefinder for a RF newbie?

[ you may also find that a 135 isn't as desirable a lens to use in the rangefinder world. [/B]
Click to expand...

Dave, well said. I can't imagine trying to focus a 135 on a Bessa. :eek:
 
May I suggest instead of the straight R2, what about an R2C - the contax mount version? That would give you a meter, rapid wind lever, and access to all that glorious Ziess Contax glass that's relativly underpriced as well as some real deals on the Russian lenses. It would seem to me to be a good compromise of your list of desired features.

Plus the new CV contax mount lenses are on close out. There are some beautiful wides at good prices from Mr. Gandy at Cameraquest right now (wish I wasn't broke!)

William
 
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