italy74
Well-known
Hi guys
I admit not to have so deep knowledge of the Leica world. I found an interesting offer of a Leica CL + Summicron 35/2 and I'd like to know the main difference between the M system (which is compatible also with Zeiss ZM lenses) and CL and its lenses. My main concern is exposure, since I have not yet enough experience to do it by myself nor the interest to get an external exposure meter if it would be required.
Why should I choose a CL over a M or viceversa? Who's aimed at?
I admit not to have so deep knowledge of the Leica world. I found an interesting offer of a Leica CL + Summicron 35/2 and I'd like to know the main difference between the M system (which is compatible also with Zeiss ZM lenses) and CL and its lenses. My main concern is exposure, since I have not yet enough experience to do it by myself nor the interest to get an external exposure meter if it would be required.
Why should I choose a CL over a M or viceversa? Who's aimed at?
SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
Hi, Dino!
I think the CL has autoexposure, as opposed to most M models, which don't even have a meter. The Zeiss Ikon body has AE, just like the Leica M7. Hence, the difference is just negligible.
Now, I'd reconsider the purchase. The CL had framelines for a 40mm lens, not a 35mm. Granted, the difference is minimal, but it's still there. To be honest, if I had an offer like that, I'd buy the kit, sell the camera body and find myself a nice M-body (metered or non) to use it.
BTW, the CL should be compatible with the Zeiss, as they all share the M-mount.
I think the CL has autoexposure, as opposed to most M models, which don't even have a meter. The Zeiss Ikon body has AE, just like the Leica M7. Hence, the difference is just negligible.
Now, I'd reconsider the purchase. The CL had framelines for a 40mm lens, not a 35mm. Granted, the difference is minimal, but it's still there. To be honest, if I had an offer like that, I'd buy the kit, sell the camera body and find myself a nice M-body (metered or non) to use it.
BTW, the CL should be compatible with the Zeiss, as they all share the M-mount.
italy74
Well-known
Ciao Francisco
thanks for the prompt answer. I'll think of it. It's still a used camera and lens for 1000 € and I have a home load to pay but I'd like a quality rf and a 35 mm F/2 (or faster) lens to shoot with.
thanks for the prompt answer. I'll think of it. It's still a used camera and lens for 1000 € and I have a home load to pay but I'd like a quality rf and a 35 mm F/2 (or faster) lens to shoot with.
Borghesia
Well-known
I think that price for a CL is too high Dino. Last month there were CL 3 kits on offer here in the Netherlands all three with two lenses and all CLA'd. The average asking price was 500 euro's.
On Ebay Europe, this is also the selling price, as an example look here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=330299262723
On Ebay Europe, this is also the selling price, as an example look here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=330299262723
SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
You're welcome, Dino...
One thing: a Leica CL kit for 1000 euros is a bit overpriced. Do you have any bargaining room there? These are beautiful and small cameras. Even smaller than the M-bodies... and have a meter! A friend here, William Lewis, used to have one and I must admit I really liked it. In fact, while I was shopping for my first Leica I did consider one.
In any event, good luck in your endeavors!
One thing: a Leica CL kit for 1000 euros is a bit overpriced. Do you have any bargaining room there? These are beautiful and small cameras. Even smaller than the M-bodies... and have a meter! A friend here, William Lewis, used to have one and I must admit I really liked it. In fact, while I was shopping for my first Leica I did consider one.
In any event, good luck in your endeavors!
whickus
Established
just a quick correction - the cle has ae metering, the cl does not. the meters are known to fail sooner on the cl & cle than other metered m cameras. the shorter rangefinder baselength of the cl & cle also make them less accurate for focusing wide aperture and longer lenses.
a page about the cl:
http://cameraquest.com/leicacl.htm
and a page about the cle:
http://cameraquest.com/cle.htm
a page about the cl:
http://cameraquest.com/leicacl.htm
and a page about the cle:
http://cameraquest.com/cle.htm
italy74
Well-known
Hi guys
despite Italian language, this is the offer...
Leica CL + Summicron 2/35 "Big tooth" and battery checked to 1.5 V
http://www.newoldcamera.com/Scheda....zxGniaELp4p8JkaoRkhv/pDyBnA5Ph9E6QFpwk/nSHk7f
despite Italian language, this is the offer...
Leica CL + Summicron 2/35 "Big tooth" and battery checked to 1.5 V
http://www.newoldcamera.com/Scheda....zxGniaELp4p8JkaoRkhv/pDyBnA5Ph9E6QFpwk/nSHk7f
laptoprob
back to basics
Just did a quick search on Marktplaats.nl. Under audio, TV en foto - then camera's analoog - search for 'CL'. Five CL's with 40 Summicrons for 399 euros and up.
I can help you here if you want.
I can help you here if you want.
Borghesia
Well-known
Hey there Laptoprob...yes the three best kits are gone. But the offered Leica CL + 40mm Summicron with the 3 months guaranty can be bargained for 300 euro's I think.
It's a beaten up camera but I think it's allright.
http://link.marktplaats.nl/209604073
It's a beaten up camera but I think it's allright.
http://link.marktplaats.nl/209604073
BillBingham2
Registered User
Dino,
The CL has a internal meter, a great one. You have to adjust the exposure it based upon the readings in the viewfinder. The CLE is automatic exposure, aperture preferred. The CLE can be a great camera but many parts are impossible to be found.
Ms that have built in meters are the M5, M6 (C and TTL), M7 and the new MP. The older models (M3, M2, MP, MD, M4, M4-2, M4-P) do not. Then there is the M8, but I will leave that out for now.
While you can mount and meter just about any M (or LTM with an adapter) on her, the exception are some early 21s as their rear elements interfere with the metering arm (same problem with the M5) movement. The bigger issue is the Effective Base Length of the CL and CLE, it's rather short. This can be an issue wide open with fast normal and just about all telephoto lenses.
While it's long winded take a read here:
http://www.imx.nl/photo/technique/technique/page49.html
The CL is an attractive camera, very seductive in design, size and feel. You might look to using a 28 or perhaps the 35 full frame on her though I am not sure. I'd stick with a 40, the CV lens is wonderful. If you want more than one lens you might look to a CV 15 as a great superwide, no focusing necessary.
The price with the 35 sounds very high in the economy.
B2 (;->
The CL has a internal meter, a great one. You have to adjust the exposure it based upon the readings in the viewfinder. The CLE is automatic exposure, aperture preferred. The CLE can be a great camera but many parts are impossible to be found.
Ms that have built in meters are the M5, M6 (C and TTL), M7 and the new MP. The older models (M3, M2, MP, MD, M4, M4-2, M4-P) do not. Then there is the M8, but I will leave that out for now.
While you can mount and meter just about any M (or LTM with an adapter) on her, the exception are some early 21s as their rear elements interfere with the metering arm (same problem with the M5) movement. The bigger issue is the Effective Base Length of the CL and CLE, it's rather short. This can be an issue wide open with fast normal and just about all telephoto lenses.
While it's long winded take a read here:
http://www.imx.nl/photo/technique/technique/page49.html
The CL is an attractive camera, very seductive in design, size and feel. You might look to using a 28 or perhaps the 35 full frame on her though I am not sure. I'd stick with a 40, the CV lens is wonderful. If you want more than one lens you might look to a CV 15 as a great superwide, no focusing necessary.
The price with the 35 sounds very high in the economy.
B2 (;->
BillBingham2
Registered User
I should add one more thing, I have lusted for a CL from the day it came out!
B2 (;->
B2 (;->
Al Kaplan
Veteran
The first version of the 28 Elmarit sticks into a CL too far. Also, you need to be careful not to collapse the 50's while mounted on a CL. The 40mm Summicron is about the sharpest "35" Leica ever made. A lot of people use them on their M bodies.
Pablito
coco frío
slowest shutter speed on CL is 1/2 second, not a problem for many but if you do long exposures you might want a camera that can do a full second.
There is the Leica CL and the Leitz/Minolta CL both virtually the same (I think) The Minolta CLE is very different and while it has a nice viewfinder it's not nearly as reliable - shutter is electric and battery dependent. You should be able to get the CL worked on well into the future, but if the circuit boards in the CLE die, you may have an expensive paperweight on your hands. I liked my CL a lot , a great camera with the 40mm lens. I sold it only when I was able to afford a couple of M6's. My CLE I sold because I just did not like the way the meter worked at all, not easy to use on manual.
There is the Leica CL and the Leitz/Minolta CL both virtually the same (I think) The Minolta CLE is very different and while it has a nice viewfinder it's not nearly as reliable - shutter is electric and battery dependent. You should be able to get the CL worked on well into the future, but if the circuit boards in the CLE die, you may have an expensive paperweight on your hands. I liked my CL a lot , a great camera with the 40mm lens. I sold it only when I was able to afford a couple of M6's. My CLE I sold because I just did not like the way the meter worked at all, not easy to use on manual.
maddoc
... likes film again.
The CL is very nice and little camera but is prone to three problems, that are expensive to repair. First, the meter-cell and/or arm is often dead / doesn't move correctly. Second, the semi-transparent silvering on the prism in the rangefinder is often faded, and the contrast of the rangefinder very low. This seems to be a quite common problem with Leica CL. Mine, albeit serviced by Sherry Krauter, has this problem. The silver layer can be restored by CRR, Luton but is expensive and takes time. Third, many of the early CL still have a plastic take-up spool where the film has to be slipped under "fingers" that encircle the spool. Due to age and not having taken to much care, often some of the fingers are broken off and loading gets a hassle.
Other than this, the CL is great ! The VF shows the shutter-speed and exposure with a needle, even better to read than the meter of the M5. 40mm frame lines are permanent visible, 50mm and 90mm switch according to the attached lens. Only drawback in design is that the battery can only be exchanged when the camera-back is removed. So no battery exchange with film in the camera.
The price you mention seems high. As others have mentioned, a CL + 40mm Summicron-C (which I had some time ago and rate higher than the 35mm Summicron-M IV ...) should be available for ~ $700 to ~$800 in very good condition.
Cheers,
Gabor
Other than this, the CL is great ! The VF shows the shutter-speed and exposure with a needle, even better to read than the meter of the M5. 40mm frame lines are permanent visible, 50mm and 90mm switch according to the attached lens. Only drawback in design is that the battery can only be exchanged when the camera-back is removed. So no battery exchange with film in the camera.
The price you mention seems high. As others have mentioned, a CL + 40mm Summicron-C (which I had some time ago and rate higher than the 35mm Summicron-M IV ...) should be available for ~ $700 to ~$800 in very good condition.
Cheers,
Gabor
italy74
Well-known
Ok, don't worry, I was just wondering... it was really strange to me seeing a Leica Kit around 1 k.....
Thanks everyone
Thanks everyone
Assaf
Well-known
I currently use the CL after using an M6 and I really like it.
It's small, compact and sexy
The disatvantages are the RF mechanism and the shutter. The RF tends to fade and isn't as easy to focus - I tend not to shoot wide open (F2) but to slow down to F2.8. The shutter is noisy and causes vibration - I tend not to shoot slower then 1/60 (using a soft release button might help though).
Regarding the lens - I think you'll have a better deal buying a 40mm Summicron and not 35mm. It's much cheaper and suits the camera better. People say that it's comparable in performance to the 35mm from the same time.
Camera and lens cost between 300 to 400USD each
It's small, compact and sexy
The disatvantages are the RF mechanism and the shutter. The RF tends to fade and isn't as easy to focus - I tend not to shoot wide open (F2) but to slow down to F2.8. The shutter is noisy and causes vibration - I tend not to shoot slower then 1/60 (using a soft release button might help though).
Regarding the lens - I think you'll have a better deal buying a 40mm Summicron and not 35mm. It's much cheaper and suits the camera better. People say that it's comparable in performance to the 35mm from the same time.
Camera and lens cost between 300 to 400USD each