DownUnder
Nikon Nomad
For my usual personal reasons, I'm again considering yet another retirement from photo web site commenting, and I've been thinking about posting this for some time. So here goes.
Okay, young or not-so-young - let's say a photographer who asks for guidance and wants to hear our wise words.
Having now reached that mostly underrated life-staged known as "elderly" (aka "officially old" or less kindly "dufferdom"), I find myself resisting the urge to mentor young(er) photographers in developing their skills to a level of 'art' or at least to take photos beyond the level of the currently popular fad imagery less than kindly known to many of us as 'digicrap'.
Over the years and camera clubs and alas, many web photo sites have attracted a number of perhaps well-meaning malcontents who appear t be ego-driven or emotionally needy in their approach to preaching to newcomers. Indeed, one could well ask, why preach to anyone in the first place? there are times when I've wondered this, and tried my best to bite my tongue or word my counsels in the most general terms I could think of.
I particularly recall a past poster (happily not on this site) who was about my age and in a similar situation as a retired pro, who reacted much like someone who had just been groped in public, in his response to any criticism however slight or well-meant of his too often over-the-top comments. This worthy once branded me a "smartass" for daring to challenge a glaringly incorrect technical point he was passing off as holy gospel. said gentleman he has now dropped out of the scene, I hope to some better situation to walk the walk, not talk the talk.
What he most took exception to was my politely worded comment that he should step off his soapbox long enough to consider the best way to guide other photographers to find their own style was not to lecture, but to let them make mistakes and learn from them. Good advice, I reckon, in all areas of one's life.
All this said by way of my introduction. My question now. How to approach advising, counseling, directing, guiding without pushing or shoving the younger photographers who are open to advice in their approach to making better images in their own way?
For the sake of discussion, it would perhaps be best if we avoid the usual techno-generalities (= check your focus, bracket your shots, expose for shadows/highlights/in the middle, set your colors correctly, that sort of thing) and delve more deeply into our own, individual ways of looking for as well as making our images stand out as uniquely ours, away from the hurdy-gurdy merry-go-round of today's trendy (and sadly often crappysnapping) photography.
I will now throw open this thread to your interesting and useful suggestions and even disagreements (but please, no calling anyone "smartass" for daring to disagree with one's gilded words).
What would you say to a photographer who asks you what your approach is to making your own unique images?
Good people, this thread is now yours.
Okay, young or not-so-young - let's say a photographer who asks for guidance and wants to hear our wise words.
Having now reached that mostly underrated life-staged known as "elderly" (aka "officially old" or less kindly "dufferdom"), I find myself resisting the urge to mentor young(er) photographers in developing their skills to a level of 'art' or at least to take photos beyond the level of the currently popular fad imagery less than kindly known to many of us as 'digicrap'.
Over the years and camera clubs and alas, many web photo sites have attracted a number of perhaps well-meaning malcontents who appear t be ego-driven or emotionally needy in their approach to preaching to newcomers. Indeed, one could well ask, why preach to anyone in the first place? there are times when I've wondered this, and tried my best to bite my tongue or word my counsels in the most general terms I could think of.
I particularly recall a past poster (happily not on this site) who was about my age and in a similar situation as a retired pro, who reacted much like someone who had just been groped in public, in his response to any criticism however slight or well-meant of his too often over-the-top comments. This worthy once branded me a "smartass" for daring to challenge a glaringly incorrect technical point he was passing off as holy gospel. said gentleman he has now dropped out of the scene, I hope to some better situation to walk the walk, not talk the talk.
What he most took exception to was my politely worded comment that he should step off his soapbox long enough to consider the best way to guide other photographers to find their own style was not to lecture, but to let them make mistakes and learn from them. Good advice, I reckon, in all areas of one's life.
All this said by way of my introduction. My question now. How to approach advising, counseling, directing, guiding without pushing or shoving the younger photographers who are open to advice in their approach to making better images in their own way?
For the sake of discussion, it would perhaps be best if we avoid the usual techno-generalities (= check your focus, bracket your shots, expose for shadows/highlights/in the middle, set your colors correctly, that sort of thing) and delve more deeply into our own, individual ways of looking for as well as making our images stand out as uniquely ours, away from the hurdy-gurdy merry-go-round of today's trendy (and sadly often crappysnapping) photography.
I will now throw open this thread to your interesting and useful suggestions and even disagreements (but please, no calling anyone "smartass" for daring to disagree with one's gilded words).
What would you say to a photographer who asks you what your approach is to making your own unique images?
Good people, this thread is now yours.
Dan Daniel
Well-known
Study other photographers, photos you run across. Study the ones you like and try to figure out what makes it work for you and what motivated the photographer to take it from that spot at that time. Study the ones you don't like and try to figure out why you don't like it, and then see if you can imagine that there was a photo you would have taken at the same location and time.
As you take photos, and as you look over your own work, ask yourself if you like the photo because it reminds you of photos by others that you have liked. If so, ask yourself why you think the world needs another photo just like the one you like, even if this one you took is, well, by you so of course it is special and unique. Because face it, you just admitted you took it because it reminded you of other photos, and believe me in this day and age there will be about 18,000 more just like it on Flickr.
Find a few photographers who you know are good, whose work you find compelling and interesting and pleasurable, but you don't understand how they did it. There's just no way you reach an understanding of how you could ever do something that good. These are your guide stars. Never lose sight of them unless you finally crack their code. Then find another guide star (for example, for me, Timothy O'Sullivan, Atget, Paul Strand, Helen Levitt)
As you take photos, and as you look over your own work, ask yourself if you like the photo because it reminds you of photos by others that you have liked. If so, ask yourself why you think the world needs another photo just like the one you like, even if this one you took is, well, by you so of course it is special and unique. Because face it, you just admitted you took it because it reminded you of other photos, and believe me in this day and age there will be about 18,000 more just like it on Flickr.
Find a few photographers who you know are good, whose work you find compelling and interesting and pleasurable, but you don't understand how they did it. There's just no way you reach an understanding of how you could ever do something that good. These are your guide stars. Never lose sight of them unless you finally crack their code. Then find another guide star (for example, for me, Timothy O'Sullivan, Atget, Paul Strand, Helen Levitt)
helen.HH
To Light & Love ...
take your camera with You everyday ... shoot, shoot, shoot
stick with just one focal length for a year
follow your Eye , follow your Heart
stick with just one focal length for a year
follow your Eye , follow your Heart
Bill Clark
Veteran
Is this for you?
What is your name?
Your age?
Have you had pro photography experiences? What type?
Hard to suggest when I don't know much.
What really got me going with my pro photography career is finding someone who was willing to be my coach and mentor. His name was Monte Zucker. He was just wonderful.
For help getting into digital, mostly photoshop, it was Eddie Tapp.
Successful photographers I met were more than willing to help me. They are very personable, easy to talk to, little or no ego.
It was a great business. I enjoyed every gig, every client. But the time came for me to retire and that I did a few years ago.
What is your name?
Your age?
Have you had pro photography experiences? What type?
Hard to suggest when I don't know much.
What really got me going with my pro photography career is finding someone who was willing to be my coach and mentor. His name was Monte Zucker. He was just wonderful.
For help getting into digital, mostly photoshop, it was Eddie Tapp.
Successful photographers I met were more than willing to help me. They are very personable, easy to talk to, little or no ego.
It was a great business. I enjoyed every gig, every client. But the time came for me to retire and that I did a few years ago.
Tom Diaz
Well-known
My advice
My advice
It's always a good question, and the answer (from me) has changed somewhat as we progress into the 21st century.
I am often asked for advice from young photographers and parents thereof.
My advice (which echoes some points from other posters):
1. Look at all the photographs you can. Especially bound books of photographs by the greats. If you are fortunate to have a good public library, go look at them there.
2. Take your camera (or whatever) with you everywhere you go. Another good point in favor of phones!
3. Take art/photography instruction at an appropriate level. If you are a high school student take some art classes in school, and if you are fortunate enough to have photography classes, avail yourself of those, too. Art education is timeless and will not be made obsolete by technology.
I try hard not to get drawn into advice on equipment to buy. I was never someone who argued that "it doesn't matter what equipment you have," because I never believed that. Now, however, entire imaging genres and industries are being made obsolete, so it is very hard to give useful advice, especially to young people who may not have much money. I'm like, use your phone and apply the art education to what you're doing.
Tom D.
My advice
It's always a good question, and the answer (from me) has changed somewhat as we progress into the 21st century.
I am often asked for advice from young photographers and parents thereof.
My advice (which echoes some points from other posters):
1. Look at all the photographs you can. Especially bound books of photographs by the greats. If you are fortunate to have a good public library, go look at them there.
2. Take your camera (or whatever) with you everywhere you go. Another good point in favor of phones!
3. Take art/photography instruction at an appropriate level. If you are a high school student take some art classes in school, and if you are fortunate enough to have photography classes, avail yourself of those, too. Art education is timeless and will not be made obsolete by technology.
I try hard not to get drawn into advice on equipment to buy. I was never someone who argued that "it doesn't matter what equipment you have," because I never believed that. Now, however, entire imaging genres and industries are being made obsolete, so it is very hard to give useful advice, especially to young people who may not have much money. I'm like, use your phone and apply the art education to what you're doing.
Tom D.
nickthetasmaniac
Veteran
These two ^^
And...
Pay attention.
Study photos, discover what you like and why you like it, learn the 'rules' (if only so you can later mess with them). Photography has a long and rich history, take advantage of it.
charjohncarter
Veteran
Young Photographer: Always have a camera with you, take lots of pictures, archive.
1958 by John Carter, on Flickr
1958 by John Carter, on Flickr
Darthfeeble
But you can call me Steve
Get schooling from a reputable institution, take any job that will pack your resume, put your name out there everywhere you can, hang pix in local venues that will allow it.
jordan.dickinson
Jordan Dickinson
Take lots of photos, don’t be afraid to get close (even when uncomfortable), look at lots of photographs, and be a RUTHLESS personal editor. And this last one feels particularly important to me. In my opinion you will really only get 1-2 keepers per roll of film and same percentage when scaled up to digital terms. I’m still not editing down my own photos enough, but my point is to just be very honest with yourself about what makes your photo good, and then try and explore those things and add to them. I say this while still struggling myself to follow it. But I try to keep it in mind.
Beemermark
Veteran
Get an engineering degree. Learn no one really wants your advice. Have a good income from your engineering profession. Good income allows you to satisfy GAS. Work sends you to very interesting places to satisfy your lust to take incredible pictures. Have fun.
John Bragg
Well-known
Learn how to see a photo before it happens. Mentally "take pictures" as you go about your day, and one I find particularly useful, learn to play a game of guess the meter reading. Set your camera to manual and try each time you meter to predict what the reading will be. You will soon get good enough to guesstimate accurately and use that ability to preset. With that skill under your belt, you can concentrate on taking pictures as they happen and not get caught up in the technicalities. Picture making becomes more Zen and your style has a better chance of shining through.
bullterrier
Established
dont photograph anything that dosent interest you!
David Hughes
David Hughes
1, Read the manual until you understand it; then
2, please yourself and
3, don't get too worried about not producing unique photograph. We've all been there and done that and it's not worth the worry.
Regards, David
PS And don't take your camera to bits thinking you can improve or repair it...
2, please yourself and
3, don't get too worried about not producing unique photograph. We've all been there and done that and it's not worth the worry.
Regards, David
PS And don't take your camera to bits thinking you can improve or repair it...
Richard G
Veteran
Look at lots of photographs and also paintings from different eras. Read Szarkowski's The Photographer's Eye or even Looking at Photographs. Analyse why you are so taken by particular photographs. Learn why experts value certain other photographs.
Get a reasonably good camera, not too big, with a 50mm lens or 35mm lens and get to know it backwards, using the controls, learning its quirks and becoming adept with it. Like Helen said, take it with you every day and take lots of shots. Learn about sensors or films and what their properties are and how to exploit them.
Look at your bad uninteresting photographs and try to see what it is that is so disappointing and work what you could have done better, or whether doing better was even possible with that shot.
Look at your really good shots, even if just in your view, and explore why you succeeded. Not just in the pressing of the shutter, but how you felt, what you were doing, why you were there and what your thinking was leading up to the shot.
Look at some other photos of yours that valued advisers really like but which you overlooked. Understand what they are seeing in it and why. There might be a reference to follow up. This might teach you something about your photographic vision which you are unaware of despite your success with that picture.
Without going into technical details, a good principle is to just try harder. e.g. look more carefully. Wait longer. Move quicker. Or move slower, waiting around. Hold the camera still and properly level. Explore a subject taking lots of shots.
Have a break. Look at prints in galleries and large format books.
JOIN RFF.
Get a reasonably good camera, not too big, with a 50mm lens or 35mm lens and get to know it backwards, using the controls, learning its quirks and becoming adept with it. Like Helen said, take it with you every day and take lots of shots. Learn about sensors or films and what their properties are and how to exploit them.
Look at your bad uninteresting photographs and try to see what it is that is so disappointing and work what you could have done better, or whether doing better was even possible with that shot.
Look at your really good shots, even if just in your view, and explore why you succeeded. Not just in the pressing of the shutter, but how you felt, what you were doing, why you were there and what your thinking was leading up to the shot.
Look at some other photos of yours that valued advisers really like but which you overlooked. Understand what they are seeing in it and why. There might be a reference to follow up. This might teach you something about your photographic vision which you are unaware of despite your success with that picture.
Without going into technical details, a good principle is to just try harder. e.g. look more carefully. Wait longer. Move quicker. Or move slower, waiting around. Hold the camera still and properly level. Explore a subject taking lots of shots.
Have a break. Look at prints in galleries and large format books.
JOIN RFF.
freeranger
Well-known
Develop your own film - it will give you an appreciation of the need to pre-vizualize your images...and it's hella-fun
CharlesDAMorgan
Veteran
If they are really dreadfully worse than me but have a tattoo and wear a beanie - go on youtube and review Mamiya 7s
If they are worse than me, give up.
If they are as good as me or better without being brilliant - get a well paid job and enjoy your hobby in your spare time.
If they are exceptional, it's a waste of time getting advice from me, but get used to living on peanuts, the days of the well paid pro are long since gone.
If they are worse than me, give up.
If they are as good as me or better without being brilliant - get a well paid job and enjoy your hobby in your spare time.
If they are exceptional, it's a waste of time getting advice from me, but get used to living on peanuts, the days of the well paid pro are long since gone.
Kent
Finally at home...
1. Start with a digital camera. Steeper learing curve.
2. Focus manually and in aperture priority (fully manual is too hard first).
3. Get some photo books and feel the inspiration.
4. Talk to other, experienced photographers about some of your favourite photos.
5. Try to see light.
6. Change perspective often.
7. After a while, try to expose in M-mode and see what you get.
8. Get an analogue camera and use your skills when shooting on film.
9. Try to find out your preferences and concentrate on those but do not forget to leave your comfort zone every now and then.
10. Have fun!
2. Focus manually and in aperture priority (fully manual is too hard first).
3. Get some photo books and feel the inspiration.
4. Talk to other, experienced photographers about some of your favourite photos.
5. Try to see light.
6. Change perspective often.
7. After a while, try to expose in M-mode and see what you get.
8. Get an analogue camera and use your skills when shooting on film.
9. Try to find out your preferences and concentrate on those but do not forget to leave your comfort zone every now and then.
10. Have fun!
Charlie Lemay
Well-known
Don’t make the images we’ve all seen before. Make the ones, that if you don’t make them, no one else will ever get to see.
Harley75
Member
The most helpful thing I have found is that learning to draw (with pencil and paper) develops the ability to "see" an image.
Vince Lupo
Whatever
Watch this video - actually I think it’s good advice for all of us: https://vimeo.com/116692462