Paddy C
Unused film collector
I will likely make my first digital camera purchase this year and was thinking of a 4/3 offering. But I'm not in a rush.
It's amazing to me that not one of the big three (Canon, Nikon, Sony) have announced anything to compete with the Panasonic and Olympus cameras. (Though maybe that will change in the coming months)
Canon seems hopelessly conservative and happy to re-hash the digital Elph, along with a yearly update to the G line and now the S90. The G11 has price on its side, but little else when compared to the EP-1/2 and GF1.
For a company with Nikon's history, it's sort of embarrassing that they have not, IIRC, ever created a decent compact camera in the digital era. It's as if they really don't care about this segment.
Sony seems to be taking the buckshot approach to the camera market – offer 10 variations of everything in the hope that one hits. And cram the "feature list." Given what Sony is capable of (R1 for example), they too appear to have developed cold feat when it comes to anything inventive.
Is this segment going to be an Olympus/Panasonic show for the foreseeable future?
It's amazing to me that not one of the big three (Canon, Nikon, Sony) have announced anything to compete with the Panasonic and Olympus cameras. (Though maybe that will change in the coming months)
Canon seems hopelessly conservative and happy to re-hash the digital Elph, along with a yearly update to the G line and now the S90. The G11 has price on its side, but little else when compared to the EP-1/2 and GF1.
For a company with Nikon's history, it's sort of embarrassing that they have not, IIRC, ever created a decent compact camera in the digital era. It's as if they really don't care about this segment.
Sony seems to be taking the buckshot approach to the camera market – offer 10 variations of everything in the hope that one hits. And cram the "feature list." Given what Sony is capable of (R1 for example), they too appear to have developed cold feat when it comes to anything inventive.
Is this segment going to be an Olympus/Panasonic show for the foreseeable future?
chris00nj
Young Luddite
Olympus has always been innovative.
I got the D-Lux 4 (LX-3) last year for the Mrs. and it's very a good camera. The EP-1 wasn't out yet at the time, but if I was going to buy again, it would be a top choice.
I got the D-Lux 4 (LX-3) last year for the Mrs. and it's very a good camera. The EP-1 wasn't out yet at the time, but if I was going to buy again, it would be a top choice.
payasam
a.k.a. Mukul Dube
Micro Four Thirds is a standard for what are essentially digicams with relatively large sensors and the ability to take interchangeable lenses. It has still to be seen how large is the market for this kind of camera. Possibly as a consequence, there are at this time few lenses available for it. I am comfortable with my Four Thirds SLRs, and it is my guess that most professionals and advanced amateurs will remain with "straight" digital SLRs.
apconan
-
You're right, Nikon doesn't care about the compact segment much.
I think for these companies, the main reason they're not going into the micro 4/3rds segment is because it has the potential to cut into their DSLR sales. Working at a camera store myself, I can see that nearly all DSLR purchases are from naive couples aged 25-55 who just want a step up in quality from point and shoots. (well mostly they are getting them to keep up with the Jones, but the instant increase in image quality is how they justify it).
These customers aren't pixel peepers, they probably wouldn't notice the difference between APS-C and micro 4/3rds sensor quality. Why would they get a DSLR when they can get the "same" quality in a smaller size? This is why Canon and Nikon won't touch the market.
I think for these companies, the main reason they're not going into the micro 4/3rds segment is because it has the potential to cut into their DSLR sales. Working at a camera store myself, I can see that nearly all DSLR purchases are from naive couples aged 25-55 who just want a step up in quality from point and shoots. (well mostly they are getting them to keep up with the Jones, but the instant increase in image quality is how they justify it).
These customers aren't pixel peepers, they probably wouldn't notice the difference between APS-C and micro 4/3rds sensor quality. Why would they get a DSLR when they can get the "same" quality in a smaller size? This is why Canon and Nikon won't touch the market.
biomed
Veteran
One would hope that the big three would move into this market, but the economy being what it is Nikon, Canon and Sony will probably remain pretty conservative and continue to offer variations of the current crop of compact cameras. Micro 4/3 will probably remain in the hands of Olympus and Panasonic. I believe it is a propriertary standard and not an "open" standard like 4/3 is. I may be wrong.
Mike
Mike
Ronald M
Veteran
My D700 Nikon will do anything I want including mount viso lenses. No more inovation is required.
BillBingham2
Registered User
No question the D700 is the King of the midrange right now. The question is more do either of the big three think there is a market in the middle, between the DSLRs and the P&S options?
My read is that they are not going to poor any money into a space where they do not have a lens presence (e.g. M4/3s). If the market really starts to chip away at their low end DSLR sales perhaps they will. But they have a lot invested in their own tooling to add more for the M4/3s interface feels like an expense I would not OK even though I believe there is a bigger niche they I suspect they do. They have plenty of great options in pure glass but that is just one part of the battle, they need to plastics and metal around, the AF drives, and all to have a reasonable product.
I think Sony paid way to much for the twins cameras from different mothers. Nikon has cut back and they would much rather sell their own lens mount so if anything I would expect them to come out with an Interchangeable Lens Compact (ILC) in their own mount and look a primes and small zooms to tackle this. Canon if the market grows they will jump in I suspect with their own mount too. Most of their primes these days are rather on the LARGE size so they will need to brush off some old stuff and tweak it up for digital. I would not hold my breath as they have issues throughout the company much larger to deal with.
B2 (;->
kuzano
Veteran
Hmmmm .... very interesting...
Hmmmm .... very interesting...
This thread's gone a bit without anyone bringing up Pentax.
They seem to be doing some interesting and fairly serious things with digital....
And there was a day.........
Hmmmm .... very interesting...
This thread's gone a bit without anyone bringing up Pentax.
They seem to be doing some interesting and fairly serious things with digital....
And there was a day.........
bmasonoh
Established
It seems with Canon and Nikon (I don't know Olympus as well) are tied to their lens mounts. The backward compatibility, especially with Nikon, is very important to them. Going to 4/3rd could potentially mean starting from scratch and developing a whole new lens lineup. I wonder if they view the investment in R&D (at this time) as being worthwhile.
Paddy C
Unused film collector
From personal experience, every amateur I've know who's bought a DSLR has never bought another lens. They've stuck with the kit zoom. I would go so far as to say they don't really understand the idea of owning more than one lens and certainly the idea of spending money on just a lens.
So I don't know if a 4/3 offering from one of the big three would hurt their lens sales. I could end up replacing their low-end DSLR sales. But they wouldn't see a net loss.
apconan
-
^ I can't say I agree with you. I'd say somewhere around of half of all DSLRS that I sell, I also sell another lens either at time of purchase, or within months of purchase of the kit.
It's always the 70-300 for Nikon, and the equivilant Canon one, but usually these are soccer dads who want the largest looking lens possible so they can show off at their kid's games...
It's always the 70-300 for Nikon, and the equivilant Canon one, but usually these are soccer dads who want the largest looking lens possible so they can show off at their kid's games...
aureliaaurita
Well-known
I really desperately want ricoh to take up the mantle
they've released that £1000 + stickle brick but I don't think it's micro 4/3rdS?
anyway, I'm holding out!
they've released that £1000 + stickle brick but I don't think it's micro 4/3rdS?
anyway, I'm holding out!
squinza
Established
And exluding M lenses, and exlucing Canon lenses and excluding... Well at least is pocket size...
Arjay
Time Traveller
Aah - if only I had a crystal ball ...
I think apconan has a point: The big three are only going to move if m4/3 sales will hurt their lower-end DSLR sales.
For all of them, just producinig an M bayonet camera won't be an option, as they all also are in the lens business (Well maybe some third-party manufacturer will offer an M adapter after - and if - one of the big three has come out with their own, dedicated new bayonet system.).
I wonder which company will be the first to present a new M bayonet body. My guess is that it will be someone else, not one of the big three.
When will we know more? I guess not before Photokina this September.
I think apconan has a point: The big three are only going to move if m4/3 sales will hurt their lower-end DSLR sales.
For all of them, just producinig an M bayonet camera won't be an option, as they all also are in the lens business (Well maybe some third-party manufacturer will offer an M adapter after - and if - one of the big three has come out with their own, dedicated new bayonet system.).
I wonder which company will be the first to present a new M bayonet body. My guess is that it will be someone else, not one of the big three.
When will we know more? I guess not before Photokina this September.
Fujitsu
Well-known
I owned one for two months last summer. Gladly sold it. The color output was stinking as soon as light levels sunk below perfect. Add the size of the camera and bulky SLR lenses... no thanks.
Im having a lot more fun with the compact GF1 and M lenses (when I want to shoot digital).
They don't have to go u 4/3, but they do need to start making compacts with bigger sensors to sell inbetween their P&S and DSLRs... it doesn't make sense not to.
Visuals
Member
Apple was joined the portable computer (netbook/maxi-pad) because they couldn't ignore the fact that people wanted notebooks with power but with less weight.
So to will Nikon and Canon be forced not to ignore the growing market for the 4/3 standard.
It's only a matter of time.
So to will Nikon and Canon be forced not to ignore the growing market for the 4/3 standard.
It's only a matter of time.
Paul T.
Veteran
Well, Sony have announced they will join the fray; not with a micro 4/3, but with an APS-C EVIL design.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86459
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86459
paragon
Established
M4/3 is really for dedicated lenses, (IMHO) - OK there is now great interest in using legacy SLR and RF lenses on the format - which is good and is an inspirational event for many - Pany and Oly should be congratulated for this
IMHO manual focusing on current M4/3 cams is an unpleasant novelty
But M4/3 is about a computer, (the camera), clever software, (in the camera.......algorithms, whatever they are?), and an expensive piece of plastic and glass, (just), which the camera, (sorry computer, or is it camera), has to correct for design faults - Legacy lenses may give the user a kick........but all the tests say that the dedicated lenses are as good as or very much better than the SLR and RF stuff that we all love - - from my experience I hate to have to concur with this view
Digital is now also about smart image manipulation and PP wizardry - but that's general anyway.
What I think I am saying is that to get the best out of the format it is "best" to use dedicated lenses.
If Nikon think that the market is commercially worthwhile and if they decide to develop a range of lenses to suit, I feel that they will come into the market with there own lens mount and range of lenses............after all some of the best, (and well priced), legacy glass is Nikkor plus their RF stuff
I am waiting for that day, and as a Nikon fan will "jump ship" from Panasonic immediately, (even blindly).............and maybe a Pentax sized Nikon will emerge.
Just may views
IMHO manual focusing on current M4/3 cams is an unpleasant novelty
But M4/3 is about a computer, (the camera), clever software, (in the camera.......algorithms, whatever they are?), and an expensive piece of plastic and glass, (just), which the camera, (sorry computer, or is it camera), has to correct for design faults - Legacy lenses may give the user a kick........but all the tests say that the dedicated lenses are as good as or very much better than the SLR and RF stuff that we all love - - from my experience I hate to have to concur with this view
Digital is now also about smart image manipulation and PP wizardry - but that's general anyway.
What I think I am saying is that to get the best out of the format it is "best" to use dedicated lenses.
If Nikon think that the market is commercially worthwhile and if they decide to develop a range of lenses to suit, I feel that they will come into the market with there own lens mount and range of lenses............after all some of the best, (and well priced), legacy glass is Nikkor plus their RF stuff
I am waiting for that day, and as a Nikon fan will "jump ship" from Panasonic immediately, (even blindly).............and maybe a Pentax sized Nikon will emerge.
Just may views
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pvdhaar
Peter
That makes three options to choose from.. m4/3, Samsung's and Sony's. But why, oh why do they all have to have different mounts? With m4/3, at least there are two makers, giving a bit of flexibility in lens choice (if you include 4/3 lenses via the m4/3-4/3 adapter, the choice is even wider). But with the latter two, you're basically locked into a single brand, and if that manufacturer decides after a short while that the product isn't an instant success, they're probably out of the market in no time flat..