What can I expect if I get a photography degree.

If the OP can move North, consider Art Center College of Design (1700 Lida St., Pasadena, CA): one of the best transportation design schools around and if he has any spare time while there (highly doubtful), the photo program is pretty good as well if he wants to take some photo classes as electives. I don't hear of any ACCD trans majors going jobless upon graduation.

As to what a degree in photography gets you? -a piece of paper. Unframed.
 
You know - It might be a good idea to pursue the design you mentioned - (that is already a tough field to find job I guess) and just take some classes in photography on the side.

Indeed - it is important to study something that you really enjoy as it is your enthusiasm that will be the major factor of your future success, but all the external factors - some of them know to you already now - will be there. Take them into account. Whatever decision you will make - the consequences (most of which are not predictable) will be on you.

Try to talk to people (like you do here and now) about the directions you are interested in (I mean the car design now) - to estimate your chances to get a job one day.

In any way - good luck with your choice.
 
Rayt said:
Just curious. How many languages do you speak?
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Believe it or not, just English.
I've either had a translator or my client was able to speak enough English to where it wasn't a problem.
I'm process of learning Thai though. If I can get fluent in this then I'll study Chinese again. (I briefly studied chinese but never became fluent, now that I'm in Thailand. It's more important that I learn Thai)
 
As a person with undergrad degree from a business college in a university I highly recommend you forgo that in favor of a quantitative degree. My MA was very quant focused and for that I am unbelievably appreciative.

I suggest Math major with a photo minor. Math is doable. It's much less daunting than it is made out to be. You show up to class, do your homework and study your notes and you'll make it through just fine. There isn't good at math and bad at math. This isn't a tv show where you have to be some sort of crazy, maniacal genius to get through math.

Studying linear algebra really isn't harder than history, lit or a foreign language.

Math degrees are the most versatile ones out there. They overlap heavily with both physics and engineering and are highly valuable to employers.

You start at the bottom and work your way up.

Out of all the business degrees mine was the most quantitatively focused and it still sucked. Every business class I took was a joke and a waste of my time. If you want to learn how to run a business go work for someone who runs one, or at least ask them. It's not that the profs dont know how, because 90% of my business class profs were real business people, it's that they just didn't care to talk to you about the reality of things unless you really pried.

For example, I only once got a glimpse of how religion affected business in the American south. For me, I am lucky in that I don't have any conflicts, but when you have to learn on the job that being Catholic or *gasp* non-Abrahamic means that you get treated differently when it comes time for promotions I see that as a failure of the business world to acknowledge it's more important to teach reality than ideals.

So learn about Math, because you will use the same math you learn in school on the job.

IMO.

good luck, college/university is awesome.
 
Of course, a lot depends on how your mind works. I might have been able to do a maths degree, but even if I had, I'd have hated it. Law was a lot easier for me; biology would have been easier still.

I'm not entirely sure what a 'quantitative' degree might be. If you didn't waste your time at school, and if you had decent teachers, by the time you get to university, you can get the benefit from any number of reasonably demanding degrees. The trick is to stop thinking like a schoolchild who needs to be taught. My best subject was jurisprudence, for which I attended precisely two lectures in the year. The rest of the time was spent reading and thinking. A degree that doesn't require original thought (or what passes for original thought when you're that age, which isn't always all that original) is not really a degree at all: it's finishing off what you should have learned before you went to university.

Cheers,

R.
 
I'm not sure I believe the argument made earlier that a BFA is a disqualifier for most jobs - a few years back there were a number of articles about how common it was for BFAs to pursue MBAs. Something about the creative-learning involved with an art degree transferring well to the business world.

I'm always highly suspicious of arguments that everyone should major in engineering or IT or a similar field - those jobs are just as easily shipped to developing nations, if not easier, than other occupations. And for that matter, the unrealistic nature of that proposal - not everyone's strengths are such that high-level math and physics are easily pursued. I'm fairly certain that I have the raw ability, but I also know that I'd hate every minute of every class, and probably most minutes of the career I could make.

For my part, I dropped out of a state school art program years back after a crisis of faith in my abilities and the art world in general. I decided to live my life in the meantime while I tried to figure out what I envisioned for myself in the future. I still haven't really done that, but I'm back in school and facing a decision soon between finishing a BA in History (and probably going into secondary education) and finishing that same old BFA and harnessing the power of the Internet and spectrum of new media to create a life for myself.

I do wish that it were easier to take classes in multiple disciplines, particularly business - entrepreneurial skills benefit everyone in today's climate, not just prospective MBAs (and perhaps especially not prospective MBAs).
 
Roger Hicks said:
Of course, a lot depends on how your mind works. I might have been able to do a maths degree, but even if I had, I'd have hated it. Law was a lot easier for me; biology would have been easier still.

I'm not entirely sure what a 'quantitative' degree might be. If you didn't waste your time at school, and if you had decent teachers, by the time you get to university, you can get the benefit from any number of reasonably demanding degrees. The trick is to stop thinking like a schoolchild who needs to be taught. My best subject was jurisprudence, for which I attended precisely two lectures in the year. The rest of the time was spent reading and thinking. A degree that doesn't require original thought (or what passes for original thought when you're that age, which isn't always all that original) is not really a degree at all: it's finishing off what you should have learned before you went to university.

Cheers,

R.
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Well people in general try to maintain the illusion that university is there to teach you something.

I paid for a diploma. I don't mind saying so. But that isn't a popular sentiment.
 
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In the last hundred years or so The quality of a college degree has been lessened by the requirement to have one for almost any job. Many of today's college grads couldn't pass an exam to graduate high school a hundred years ago.
Face it, college is a BIG business and feeds on the high school kids who can't read or write proper english. Our kids are brought up to believe they need college whether they are suited for it or not.
Most of today's grads expect a great job when school is done with. Wal-Mart & Mickey D's don't seem all that great to me.
A GOOD vocational school could be a better choice for many.

Anyway find a practical degree and let the photography remain a hobby. Many have learned enough after a few years that, with effort photography can be their lifes work.
 
redisburning said:
Well people in general try to maintain the illusion that university is there to teach you something.

I paid for a diploma. I don't care to say so. But that isn't a popular sentiment.
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That is what I'd see as the problem. The purpose of a university in an ideal world is not to teach you things. It's to help you learn things. Not always about what you're studying, either. Otherwise it's a trade school, or worse still, a continuation of secondary school. Too many people try to turn universities into trade schools. Or indeed, to turn trade schools into universities.

Of course, none of us knows how we might have fared had we studied something else, or not gone to university if we did, or gone to university if we didn't. Or gone to trade school, or done an apprenticeship (assuming we didn't do either). Many of us didn't even consider art school, and among those that did, quite a few chose something else. I did, for a start. I went to trade school, and studied law, albeit with no intention of practising. But because it's allegedly a Learned Profession, law isn't regarded as a trade, despite the fact that 95% of the people I was at university with (University figures) went on to practise law. Much like medical school, really, which is another jumped-up trade school.

Fewer and fewer of the graduates I know, in any subject, get a job in a field related to their degree; and when it comes to photography graduates, of whom I encounter more than average given my livelihood, the figure is even lower.

Cheers,

R.
 
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Chriscrawfordphoto said:
go to school for business. It'll teach you how to run one, which is something photo and art schools refuse to teach students, despite the fact that nearly all artists and photographers are SELF-EMPLOYED small business owners.
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I own my own studio, and having at least some business classes under my belt has made it actually possible to continue paying the bills. I may be the outsider in this respect, but I actually make quite a comfortable living as a photographer. It took a little while to build up a customer base, during which time I was having to work a few other jobs to finance the business and my bills, and i'm certain most people would've just walked away during that time...but I'm pleased with my income. The one thing I learned early on that helped me too was that you have to be willing to photograph pretty much anything that will pay you money...if you keep holding out for that perfect assignment...you'll be broke forever.
 
My Personal Thoughts in short, easy to digest terms

My Personal Thoughts in short, easy to digest terms

First, I worked on a University Campus for fifteen years, and have been an instructor on a Community College Campus now for close to 20 years part time. I do not have a college degree. Not proud of that, but that's my reality.

My thoughts on higher education are as follows:

1) degrees outside of technology, medical, law and other high paid professions are going to go down in value in the job market. Degrees in professions that require a degree are going to hold some value.

Why do I think that. With this current economy, thousands more people have entered higher education primarily NOT for the degrees, but because that is an excellent way to get some income coming in to support families. If those people enter the job market actually having achieved a degree, the employable quality of those people with degrees will be reduced, but they will be competing for the jobs.

2) degrees in the art fields are routinely valued lower, unless one is continuing on in higher education, ie art history, art instructors, etc. Success in art fields is primarily based on one's work portfolio and business acumen. I know that in the Medical and Dental professions, for instance, a significant part of education in those fields is spent on business administration. I do not know if such is the case in Art or Photography education. So you should consider a business degree in addition to Photography education.

3) Lastly, consider the most significant negative aspect of higher education in any field. Cost of the education ADDED TO the cost of lost income while in school. Income is generally minimal while attending school. One cannot stop at the cost of education alone. One should factor in the lower income associated with attending school at or near full time.

If the cost of four years education over 4 years, for example is $100,000 (very low for most degrees), I think one should at least double that number to a combination of education cost and lost income, or $200,000.

Considering that a degree is now less likely to result in an increased income position than simply starting a full time career. the cost of education + lost income, results in entering the job market $200,000 behind those who go from high school directly into the job market. Now add starting in the career market with four years less experience. (four years less time to catch up with counter parts in your field).

I think it's very difficult to cost justify the academic route to a degree in Photography. Even in a good economy, those degrees tend not to be all that attractive without other education. In many fields simply having a degree can be an advantage, as it shows your motivation and effort put forth. It also still impresses GOB (Good Ole Boy) style employers and interviewers. As in, gee who do you know.

NOW... remember this point also. Remember that the instructors and professors who are teaching photography chose education rather than the profession itself. Is it safe to assume that some of those people actually tried Photography as a career and couldn't make the cut. I do understand people who are passionate about teaching, but in the arts... Hmmm???

Also, in conclusion, we don't have that good economy and many are finding that without connections, jobs are hard to find. Me, I'd go to school for the less obvious contacts and GOB aspects, as opposed to a degree focused on a profession that doesn't require one.

Just a few random thoughts.
 
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Forget school. Move to Paris and get a library card at the musee de la photographie. Spend a year in their library reviewing every book they have. Voila! You have just learned more in one year than most photographers do in a lifetime.
 
1. Follow your heart
2. Earn a BFA in Photography at the best university you can affort/get in to
3. Peruse your passion with passion...
4. Be creative - perhaps teach photography yourself, work at a museum... that is, immerse yourself with other revenue opportunities based on your skill. Many a musician have made enough to live on playing in wedding bands on the weekends, teaching music, writing, and working in a music store. Photographers, same.
5. Is your goal to make a lot money or be a photographer? Would you be only happy being rich as a photographer? - That may be unrealistic. Would you be able to live an auster life - maybe no cable tv, no air conditioning in the house, old car/no car, buy clothes in thrift shops, survive on Ramen Noodles or rice and beans, live with roommates in an apt - indefinitely, and be happy as long as you're doing what you love?
6. Will you regret it the rest of your life if you don't give it a shot? Many an accountant who went to university with a desire to do "something else" but were pressured to major in "something they'll get a job in" go balls to the wall later to pursue their passion, or don't and regret it every day of their lives. The pharmeceutical industry loves those people, as they account for a high percentage of their SSRI sales. Often, that "safe job" as an accountant results in a rude awakening when their company is bought out and their job is deemed redundant. - Not so safe after all.
7. A famous, talented photographer (or author, or artist, what have you) from your generation will certainly emerge. At this point, you have as much a shot as this person. Why can't that person be you?

Follow your heart - fearlessly
 
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If you want to own a house, an expensive car, lots of furniture, a washer and dryer, and support a family, then almost any job can become a burden. Photography would become a burden just as any other would because of the nature of the work: working for the 'things' in your life, rather than working for the love of work.

People are so confused these days about what work is and what it's for. Fulfilling work is not something you do as a platform for other things to stand upon: it's something you do because you want to. Any other type of work will be unfulfilling.

Do what you truly love and enjoy. If your passion is true, your effort strong and consistent, your intention pure, then you'll love what you do, and others will be attracted to that love. You have to look deeply to find these things, and ask yourself a lot of questions. You have to deeply consider your intentions, your skills, and your true wishes.

In the end, what else are we looking for in life besides happiness? Do what makes you happy, not what will make you money.

Let me say that again:

Do what makes you happy, not what makes you money.
 
Roger Hicks said:
If you read photography, unless you're staggeringly good, or extremely lucky, or know the right people (in which case it won't matter where you went to university), you are looking straight at unemployment when you leave university; or at best, at employment in another field.

There are three ways you can approach university.

The first is to treat it as training: as a matter of interest, how many car design graduates are there per year, and how many jobs?

The second is to study something that interests you, and to hell with what you do afterwards. My brother did this; the relevance of a degree in botany to a career in finance is modest.

The third is to attempt to get as broad an education as possible, preferably with your final degree in something reasonably rigorous, e.g. not Media Studies. This was the approach I chose. I had a choice of law school and art school (photography, of course) and chose the law. I do not regret my choice.

One thing I would say, though, is that for many people, going to the sort of university where you will meet people useful to you in later life is probably at least as important as the subject you choose.

Cheers,

R.
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I prefer the first approach, so car design is definitely the better option then. Besides, this will allow me to travel a lot.
 
hudsong said:
If you want to own a house, an expensive car, lots of furniture, a washer and dryer, and support a family, then almost any job can become a burden. Photography would become a burden just as any other would because of the nature of the work: working for the 'things' in your life, rather than working for the love of work.

People are so confused these days about what work is and what it's for. Fulfilling work is not something you do as a platform for other things to stand upon: it's something you do because you want to. Any other type of work will be unfulfilling.

Do what you truly love and enjoy. If your passion is true, your effort strong and consistent, your intention pure, then you'll love what you do, and others will be attracted to that love. You have to look deeply to find these things, and ask yourself a lot of questions. You have to deeply consider your intentions, your skills, and your true wishes.

In the end, what else are we looking for in life besides happiness? Do what makes you happy, not what will make you money.

Let me say that again:

Do what makes you happy, not what makes you money.
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Well, I've wanted to be a car designer since I was a kid, so everything seems to point towards car design. I studied a car design course this year and I'm very happy with it. I can definitely see myself doing this for the rest of my life :)
 
NickTrop said:
1. Follow your heart
2. Earn a BFA in Photography at the best university you can affort/get in to
3. Peruse your passion with passion...
4. Be creative - perhaps teach photography yourself, work at a museum... that is, immerse yourself with other revenue opportunities based on your skill. Many a musician have made enough to live on playing in wedding bands on the weekends, teaching music, writing, and working in a music store. Photographers, same.
5. Is your goal to make a lot money or be a photographer? Would you be only happy being rich as a photographer? - That may be unrealistic. Would you be able to live an auster life - maybe no cable tv, no air conditioning in the house, old car/no car, buy clothes in thrift shops, survive on Ramen Noodles or rice and beans, live with roommates in an apt - indefinitely, and be happy as long as you're doing what you love?
6. Will you regret it the rest of your life if you don't give it a shot? Many an accountant who went to university with a desire to do "something else" but were pressured to major in "something they'll get a job in" go balls to the wall later to pursue their passion, or don't and regret it every day of their lives. The pharmeceutical industry loves those people, as they account for a high percentage of their SSRI sales. Often, that "safe job" as an accountant results in a rude awakening when their company is bought out and their job is deemed redundant. - Not so safe after all.
7. A famous, talented photographer (or author, or artist, what have you) from your generation will certainly emerge. At this point, you have as much a shot as this person. Why can't that person be you?

Follow your heart - fearlessly
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I have mixed reactions to your comments.
Some thoughts came to mind:

Following your heart, I agree. But do I need to earn BFA to follow my heart?
Do all professional photographers have BFA?
Must all professional photographers have BFA?
Do I need BFA to be creative?
Going to best school sure sounds good, but at what cost?
Why can't the goal be make a lot of money and be a photographer?
Will I not regret if photography does not provide the living standards that I expect?

Maybe I'm cynical, maybe I'm too realistic, maybe it's unwise for me to say "Don't quit your day job." to a teen or early 20's dreamer.
I feel that you don't have to go both feet into photography and hope for the best. I don't see enough advantage to do this especially with the risk.

Most people have more than one thing they love doing. Why can't photography be something that you develope on your own and, hopefully if you are good enough, you can transition it to be the source of bread and butter? I see this as mitigating the risk.

I like the Steve Jobs feel to your comments, but in reality, we only hear the success stories.
 
zauhar said:
I didn't read every post, but I did want to ask the OP exactly what a degree in "car design" entails? If that means automotive engineering, it's a valuable piece of paper, since you can transfer engineering skills into other areas. If it's only design and ergonomics, then it's a variant of an art degree, and a highly specialized one at that. I can't imagine there are many jobs in that niche.

If the photography curriculum offers an emphasis in digital imaging, video and web design, that could actually be pretty valuable. People with strong skills in those areas can usually find work - the key phrase is STRONG skills, not just passing a course. You would need to build up a portfolio and make contacts while still in school.

In any event, in today's world I would not follow either path unless you can do so without taking on a massive debt. I read in one of the posts that you are in Mexico, I assume you are planning on a state school?

Randy
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I plan to study either in Tokyo or in the UK. I already have some good contacts with other car designers. Also, going to one of the top car design schools gives you much better chances of getting a good job. At the very least you can get an internship and work your way from there. I know guys that started out studying in Rigoletti Design like me, and are now working with major companies (Alfa Romeo, Audi, Nissan, etc.).
 
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