David William White
Well-known
Ah, there you go!
Now get off your a** and refix.
Now get off your a** and refix.
What did I do wrong?
- Thread starter matt352
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spyder2000
Dim Bulb
The first sample you posted looks like mechanical damage to the film. The last two samples look a little less but can be explained if those exposures are the early ones on the roll.
Assess your film handling technique. Dou you handle your film cartridge after removal from the camera? As in hold the spool ends between your fingers and then rotate the canister? If so, there is your problem. The film gets folded back on itself in the cassette and the marks you see are stress marks which will not be removed by refixing. The marks line up with the sprocket holes becausethe film is weaker at those points and that is where it bends.
That roll of film would have felt 'different' while being loaded onto the processing reel.
Assess your film handling technique. Dou you handle your film cartridge after removal from the camera? As in hold the spool ends between your fingers and then rotate the canister? If so, there is your problem. The film gets folded back on itself in the cassette and the marks you see are stress marks which will not be removed by refixing. The marks line up with the sprocket holes becausethe film is weaker at those points and that is where it bends.
That roll of film would have felt 'different' while being loaded onto the processing reel.
ChrisN
Striving
matt352
Established
Thanks for the kick in the pants!
I just finished re-fixing and the stripes and cloudiness are GONE! The zebras are now just white horses (or black horses when printed 😉
I'll be getting them re-scanned tomorrow and will post the "after" images when I get 'em.
Thanks again for the help and encouragement. I'm really keen on quite a few of the images and was really worried they were done for.
matt352
Established
Follow up question: Is it ever possible to "over-fix" film?
crawdiddy
qu'est-ce que c'est?
I was going to go along with ChrisN, our buddy from Canberra. I've had similar results which went away after I started agitating more vigorously (Previously I was using a swirling motion of the tank, but still holding the tank upright; I began using inversions, which corrected the problem.)
The required agitation can depend on the type of reels in use. When I was using aprons, less agitation was required, and did not result in sprocket-hole stripes. When I switched to stainless steel reels, more agitation was required. I think it's because the steel coils block the circulation of developer more than the scalloped, or crinkled edges of the aprons. And the sprocket holes allowed slightly more circulation, thus resulting in uneven development.
Anyhoo, apparently it was a Fixer issue. Different step, but essentially the same root cause.
The required agitation can depend on the type of reels in use. When I was using aprons, less agitation was required, and did not result in sprocket-hole stripes. When I switched to stainless steel reels, more agitation was required. I think it's because the steel coils block the circulation of developer more than the scalloped, or crinkled edges of the aprons. And the sprocket holes allowed slightly more circulation, thus resulting in uneven development.
Anyhoo, apparently it was a Fixer issue. Different step, but essentially the same root cause.
matt352
Established
The rolls were developed in steel reels. You might be onto something...
David William White
Well-known
Excellent! I was so worried about those poor negatives, and look forward to seeing fresh scans.
About over-fixing: No real worry there. All the fixer can remove is the unexposed & undeveloped emulsion. In a recent thread here I actually left both a 4x5 neg and a print in full-strength fixer for 3 days with arguably no effect. So 10 minutes, 20 minutes, an hour won't make a difference.
David.
About over-fixing: No real worry there. All the fixer can remove is the unexposed & undeveloped emulsion. In a recent thread here I actually left both a 4x5 neg and a print in full-strength fixer for 3 days with arguably no effect. So 10 minutes, 20 minutes, an hour won't make a difference.
David.
DGA
Well-known
Thank God that was the fix and not the development 🙂
Everyday you learn something new (I mean "me")
And regarding the "Over-fix" question:
I cannot find it, but lately there was a discussion here on the same issue.
(maybe someone would help me find it 😀)
The conclusions I've got is that you can only over-fix when you take your fixing to the extremes - more than 10 times the suggested time of the manufacturer.
I'm fixing with the Tetenal fixer and used to have fixing times of double than the suggested, without any problems.
As a rule of thumb, the sufficient fixing period is double the time it takes the emulation to get cleared from the celluloid.
Take the lead of an undeveloped film (the piece you cut before rolling the strip on the reels), drip a single drop of fixer on it and start measuring the time.
Stop the timer when you see the place with the drop is absolutely clear.
The fixing times is the double of what you measured.
And as I said before, higher than that is not a problem (unless you give it an overnight experience 😛)
Oh, and don't forget to agitate...
David William White
Well-known
I think you may be referring to this thread:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69502
Sir Roger put an upper safe limit of 10x clear time. I'm showing it can much higher (with Ilford Rapid Fix) without worrying.
D.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69502
Sir Roger put an upper safe limit of 10x clear time. I'm showing it can much higher (with Ilford Rapid Fix) without worrying.
D.
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matt352
Established
Got the fresh, post-re-fix scans this afternoon. Here are a couple "After's" from the earlier "Before's."
I should have the batch posted to the web soon.
I should have the batch posted to the web soon.
David William White
Well-known
Vast improvement!
matt352
Established
Thanks!
Here's a link to the batch of "Before's":
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattandhiscatt/sets/72157615580196967/
And here's a link to the batch of "After's":
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattandhiscatt/sets/72157615666078484/
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sleepyhead
Well-known
retro
Well-known
dufffader
Leicanaut/Nikonaut...
With a fresh sample of Ilford's rapid fixer I have gone up to 8 mins without any issue. But I did read issues with overfixing if you overdo it. I've never accidentally done it so far.
David William White
Well-known
Hey, Matt: That's a great collection of moments you've captured. Great to see the before and after sets. Hopefully this will help others. Better to take action instead of hand-wringing about agitation and bromide drag and all that fluff.
Duffader: No worries -- see the thread I referenced.
Duffader: No worries -- see the thread I referenced.
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
Overfixing usually dont cause a problem - but if you use a fine grain film or thin emulsion film you can get an "etching" effect that removes or "blurs" very fine details. You really have to "stew" it though to get this.
I use a roller agitator for my fixing (it is very boring to stand there and flip the 5 reel tanks). It is one of the old Uni-Rollers that has a back and forth rotation (2 turns on direction, then switches to two turns the other direction). It also has a slight "wobble" in the long direction that ensures an even flow across the negative.
I use a roller agitator for my fixing (it is very boring to stand there and flip the 5 reel tanks). It is one of the old Uni-Rollers that has a back and forth rotation (2 turns on direction, then switches to two turns the other direction). It also has a slight "wobble" in the long direction that ensures an even flow across the negative.
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