daninjc
Well-known
Hi all,
recently my lab screwed up a couple of films (35 B/W). They are considered one of the best labs in the area, they do their own developing, and are usually very professional. Nonetheless this time they had a "light leak" and fogged a whole bunch of negatives. They didn't charge me (obviously) but now I'm starting to be somehow upset. Fortunately there was nothing that I couldn't shot again - but it bothers me.
For the money I pay them, in the long term I could easily buy the gear to do my own film developing. As a matter of fact, I have gone to a lab so far exactly to be sure I did get a good development!
So, my questions are:
(1) How often does it happen, and (2) what do you do in this case?
(3) Is it worth starting developing my own film (usually Tri-X, I have no big space - but for film only that shouldn't be a big deal) - or do I risk to screw up even more?
Any thought/experience is appreciated!
recently my lab screwed up a couple of films (35 B/W). They are considered one of the best labs in the area, they do their own developing, and are usually very professional. Nonetheless this time they had a "light leak" and fogged a whole bunch of negatives. They didn't charge me (obviously) but now I'm starting to be somehow upset. Fortunately there was nothing that I couldn't shot again - but it bothers me.
For the money I pay them, in the long term I could easily buy the gear to do my own film developing. As a matter of fact, I have gone to a lab so far exactly to be sure I did get a good development!
So, my questions are:
(1) How often does it happen, and (2) what do you do in this case?
(3) Is it worth starting developing my own film (usually Tri-X, I have no big space - but for film only that shouldn't be a big deal) - or do I risk to screw up even more?
Any thought/experience is appreciated!
gb hill
Veteran
Accidents happen! Anytime you leave your film for someone to process, something can go wrong, but not likely! I do my own B&W & you should too! When you send your b&w film out you are limited to the developer they use & their only concern is getting your film processed. You OTOH through experimentation can develop much greater control of the process, find which developer, film combination works best for you. So many factors come into play, & yes you will screw up a roll of film like I just did!
As far as space you don't need any added space! I use a changing bag! Once the film is in the tank the rest can be done in the light!
As far as space you don't need any added space! I use a changing bag! Once the film is in the tank the rest can be done in the light!
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
Never happened to me, in many years and countries...
finguanzo
Well-known
agree with gb hill, develop your own. You will probably screw up a few rolls, not like the outcome after a couple of tries until you figure out your groove. Not expensive at all, and dont need more space than a kitchen sink..
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
Yes, developing b&w is a pleasure: you feel it's a tool...
nikon_sam
Shooter of Film...
As it often happens in here...someone has stolen my thoughts...:bang:
Use this incident to motivate you to start doing it yourself...one of the best things you can do to improve your photography...
dmr
Registered Abuser
I've never had anything totally ruined that I remember, but a few cases of scratches, minor mis-cuts, creased/crinkles, fingerprints, crummy scans, etc.
In a few cases I've complained loudly, and in one case did so very obviously while others were on line behind me. I this case the clerk paged the manager and tried to motion me aside, but I assertively stated "we're not through yet" and proceeded to express my dissatisfaction with a crinkled negative.
Refunds and free film are all I've ever been offered.
In a few cases I've complained loudly, and in one case did so very obviously while others were on line behind me. I this case the clerk paged the manager and tried to motion me aside, but I assertively stated "we're not through yet" and proceeded to express my dissatisfaction with a crinkled negative.
Refunds and free film are all I've ever been offered.
JohnTF
Veteran
Laws here are very generous to the labs, they are only responsible to repay the cost of the film. Processing of B&W is so low in general quality, I tend to use the C41 B&W films if I want it commercially processed.
For C41, I try to talk to the tech guys about their training, and how often the machines are serviced and how. Some places simply swap out rollers daily, some clean daily, and some do nothing. Biggest problems I have had in C41 are scratches, dirt, and not following instructions, e.g. cutting the film, etc.
Traditional B&W-- have really not found a long term lab for B&W , demand was too low before digital. Heard of a guy in LA who was great, but he retired, was from France and did HCB's stuff, so I would imagine he was ready to retire.
Another thing is that there are a lot of different developers and several techniques for B&W, so "Life was like a box of chocolates", too many variables.
Doing you own Tri-X is really not complex, equipment is basic, know folks here really have pet developers, but if you stick to Xtol you are going to get results far superior to most all commercial places. Choose a fix with hardener. Use one shot developers, no point in adding variables at the start.
Making proof sheets is also very basic, or just scan the rolls--
Not really a question of money, good B&W processing has been the holy grail for a long time, and once someone screws up your negatives, you are done unless you can re-shoot. You will take better care than 99% of people who take your money to process B&W.
Equipment should be next to nothing, it is being tossed out daily, unless they are running out. ;-), You can save some landfill for Earth Day by accepting it.
Ask your shop for some junk rolls to practice on, I think I ruined one roll when I started (tray developing roll film, without trays), and then it is following directions. Some skill is quickly learned in loading tanks and deciding on the equipment, for my time and effort, though I used Stainless tanks and still have them, I liked the Patterson system of tanks.
If you do not have a good sink, pick up a 12x15 tray to set the tanks down between agitations and keep from spilling someplace the significant other will object to.
Use distilled water for rinsing, rest is in books and on line.
On the road, I bought some used tanks, waited until dark to load them, and processed film in a number of rented apartments, if you are visiting Prague my friends may be able to find the stuff I left in storage, you can borrow. ;-)
Regards, John
For C41, I try to talk to the tech guys about their training, and how often the machines are serviced and how. Some places simply swap out rollers daily, some clean daily, and some do nothing. Biggest problems I have had in C41 are scratches, dirt, and not following instructions, e.g. cutting the film, etc.
Traditional B&W-- have really not found a long term lab for B&W , demand was too low before digital. Heard of a guy in LA who was great, but he retired, was from France and did HCB's stuff, so I would imagine he was ready to retire.
Another thing is that there are a lot of different developers and several techniques for B&W, so "Life was like a box of chocolates", too many variables.
Doing you own Tri-X is really not complex, equipment is basic, know folks here really have pet developers, but if you stick to Xtol you are going to get results far superior to most all commercial places. Choose a fix with hardener. Use one shot developers, no point in adding variables at the start.
Making proof sheets is also very basic, or just scan the rolls--
Not really a question of money, good B&W processing has been the holy grail for a long time, and once someone screws up your negatives, you are done unless you can re-shoot. You will take better care than 99% of people who take your money to process B&W.
Equipment should be next to nothing, it is being tossed out daily, unless they are running out. ;-), You can save some landfill for Earth Day by accepting it.
Ask your shop for some junk rolls to practice on, I think I ruined one roll when I started (tray developing roll film, without trays), and then it is following directions. Some skill is quickly learned in loading tanks and deciding on the equipment, for my time and effort, though I used Stainless tanks and still have them, I liked the Patterson system of tanks.
If you do not have a good sink, pick up a 12x15 tray to set the tanks down between agitations and keep from spilling someplace the significant other will object to.
Use distilled water for rinsing, rest is in books and on line.
On the road, I bought some used tanks, waited until dark to load them, and processed film in a number of rented apartments, if you are visiting Prague my friends may be able to find the stuff I left in storage, you can borrow. ;-)
Regards, John
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Frankie
Speaking Frankly
All decent photo labs have disclaimers in their order-envelops/forms. Imagine the liability if they have to pay your expenses to re-photograph. [In my industry...aerial imaging...air-time cost starts at $1,500 per hour, as soon as the engine starts.]
DIY does not eliminate accidents...from loading changing bags, to dark room light leaks, to incorrect soup mix, wrong temperature, under-fixing, unclean washing and dust infested drying...
DIY does not eliminate accidents...from loading changing bags, to dark room light leaks, to incorrect soup mix, wrong temperature, under-fixing, unclean washing and dust infested drying...
Herjulfr
Established
It has happened to me only once. The film was not washed properly, full of stains. I didn't pay. There is no better solution than processing your own film, but if you are like me you won't like that. Just like wet printing, I don't find it interesting at all, I don't see it as the photographer's job , but rather like another technique distinct from photography.
I say that, but I shoot mostly slides so...
I say that, but I shoot mostly slides so...
spyder2000
Dim Bulb
I'm answering this as a prior lab owner/operator (b/w and color; negative and positive)
It is always a disappointment when an accident occurs that damages or ruins customer originals. But they are accidents. We have to limit our liability because some items are truly irreplaceable. We recognize that and we use all due care to ensure it doesn't happen but it does anyway. Power fails, municipalities screw up water supplies, gears in machines break and humans do, well, humans do human things.
Process your own and you'll make some mistakes too. No one or thing is infallible.
It is always a disappointment when an accident occurs that damages or ruins customer originals. But they are accidents. We have to limit our liability because some items are truly irreplaceable. We recognize that and we use all due care to ensure it doesn't happen but it does anyway. Power fails, municipalities screw up water supplies, gears in machines break and humans do, well, humans do human things.
Process your own and you'll make some mistakes too. No one or thing is infallible.
Bill Blackwell
Leica M Shooter
In the short period - many years ago - I delved into making photography a living, I used a local "professional" lab for my color processing. They often either lost or screwed up my film; there were even a few incidences I got someone else’s work. The best I could ever get out of them was a replacement roll of film.
The whole processing lab fiasco did me in on ever being able to make any meaningful living taking pictures.
If your primary film is B&W, then do it yourself. It's too easy (and inexpensive) not to. Plus lab equipment has gotten dirt cheap.
degruyl
Just this guy, you know?
One thing I can say is that when you screw up your own negatives, you are not angry at someone else.
During the initial learning period, you will make very few mistakes. One thing you should do, though, is practice with expendable film.
You might consider something other than X-tol, only because it is a powder. That means you have to mix up a whole batch and it sits around waiting (and oxidizing) while you are not developing. Powder works well for high volume developing, where you will use up the stock in a couple of days. It also stores (dry) practically forever. Both HC-110 and Rodinal (while not perfect) are usable in a very nice one shot manner: you take some small amount of concentrated developer and mix it with water for the volume required by your tank. This eliminates one storage bottle, and ensures that your developer is not oxidizing as rapidly. Rodinal can last for years as a concentrate (I am unsure of the open bottle storage time for HC-110 syrup).
During the initial learning period, you will make very few mistakes. One thing you should do, though, is practice with expendable film.
You might consider something other than X-tol, only because it is a powder. That means you have to mix up a whole batch and it sits around waiting (and oxidizing) while you are not developing. Powder works well for high volume developing, where you will use up the stock in a couple of days. It also stores (dry) practically forever. Both HC-110 and Rodinal (while not perfect) are usable in a very nice one shot manner: you take some small amount of concentrated developer and mix it with water for the volume required by your tank. This eliminates one storage bottle, and ensures that your developer is not oxidizing as rapidly. Rodinal can last for years as a concentrate (I am unsure of the open bottle storage time for HC-110 syrup).
ed1234
Established
During my college days, I work part time in a photo lab. Never had it happen, not even on the C-41. My boss is very careful on customers' belongings.
Gumby
Veteran
Forgive me for being clinical, if not cold, about the situation... but get over it. Accept the incident as misforune and move on. These things happen. It is unfortunate when they happen to us, as opposed to some other person... but that's what life gives us sometimes.
There really isn't much more the lab can do except not charge for the processing and replace the film. I hope you were understanding when they explained that to you.
Know two things:
1. These things happen.
2. These things don't happen often.
3. You'll screw up just as much of your own film, if not more, by home processing.
But don't let that stop you from home processing! Good luck with your next photographic adventure!
There really isn't much more the lab can do except not charge for the processing and replace the film. I hope you were understanding when they explained that to you.
Know two things:
1. These things happen.
2. These things don't happen often.
3. You'll screw up just as much of your own film, if not more, by home processing.
But don't let that stop you from home processing! Good luck with your next photographic adventure!
Steve M.
Veteran
This just happened to me. I had been sending stuff over to The Black and White Lab (the one in Tucson, not the other one) and every time there was some sort of niggling problem when I got the negs back. I stayed w/ them though because they were cheaper than A&I. The last negs I got back they had put a sticker w/ a 4 digit number directly on 2 of the negs instead of on the clear negative print files, and to make matters worse they then proceeded to make contact sheets w/ the sticker on the neg, then slid the neg into the sleeves and sent them back to me. I mean, how can you do that? At some point you'd have to see the problem on the contact sheets, right? Big 'ol sticker on part of the photo? One shot was a keeper too, and I don't get that many. I emailed them and basically cussed them out, and will send the stuff to A&I from now on. Expensive or not, they're pros and have never done anything but quality work. Absolutely the best.
What ticked me off about this isn't that they made a mistake. Anyone could do that. It's that I have a very hard time believing that they couldn't have seen the problem before they mailed the stuff off to me. Someone had to look at the contact sheets and see the 2 photos w/ a large blank, white space where the sticker was. And if they didn't see this, which is beyond belief, then I definitely shouldn't be sending them anything anyway.
But yes, the writing is on the wall. I gotta do it myself. No one should be screwing up my shots but me.
What ticked me off about this isn't that they made a mistake. Anyone could do that. It's that I have a very hard time believing that they couldn't have seen the problem before they mailed the stuff off to me. Someone had to look at the contact sheets and see the 2 photos w/ a large blank, white space where the sticker was. And if they didn't see this, which is beyond belief, then I definitely shouldn't be sending them anything anyway.
But yes, the writing is on the wall. I gotta do it myself. No one should be screwing up my shots but me.
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daninjc
Well-known
Thank you all for the replies. I'm actually not really mad (not my character), and I'm over it. Accidents happen, although I'd think that a light leak developing film would be the last thing to happen in a professional lab. Heck, I'd do it in complete darkness/safe light myself!
Overall, I think I will stick with them (it's the first time and they're well established in the area), but I'm seriously considering starting my own processing - although it looks like the learning curve can be slow, and I risk screwing up even more! But at least I'd be the only one to blame.
Overall, I think I will stick with them (it's the first time and they're well established in the area), but I'm seriously considering starting my own processing - although it looks like the learning curve can be slow, and I risk screwing up even more! But at least I'd be the only one to blame.
ed1234
Established
Accidents does happen but my understanding is that it take no rocket scientist to do it right in a photo lab, it is just careless and mismanagement. My boss always make us pay special care on the film, i.e. when cutting the leading edge of the film to stick it to the "plastic lead" for feeding into the C-41 machine, always try to expose as little film as possible as there might be a shot on it, we always clean and check the racks every 3 weeks so there is no chemical stain on the negative, and the machine doesn't jam. And he always have 2 person in the shop so one can deal with phone, customers, misc stuff when the other can do the work carefully.
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Fujitsu
Well-known
Never (to me so far)
Ask for free film and give them a second chance?
Well, yes you do.
dacookieman
Cookie Monster
As others have suggested, develop your own. I have sworn to develop my own BW after the local lab screwed up 2 rolls of mine which contained some pretty preicious shots of mine. If i risk screwing up my own development, i rather do it myself and learning from my mistakes, rather then let some third party developing person screw it up for me and i dont even know why. It does take a lot of effort/time/space to develop a roll, its easy once you get the hang of it
It does take a lot of effort/time/space to develop a roll, its easy once you get the hang of it