What if I decided to do something stupid and load my own 35mm film from bulk?

[Coldkennels]

Above is a link to a site where a fellow describes a very easy modification to get Alden, and probably Watson loaders to work better with Leica reloadable cassettes. Apparently, the loaders sometimes don’t close the cassette door well. Cutting a little piece of one of the loader winding wheels makes it work well.

This is interesting, because I've never had an issue with the Alden loaders and either FILCAs or IXMOOs. They're an utter nightmare with Contax and Contax-patterned cassettes (like the Canon and late Leotax ones), but FILCAs close and click into place perfectly. I actually have to put the entire bulk loader into a dark bag to make sure Contax-style cassettes are closed in an Alden.

As an aside, one of the biggest problems with the Prinz one is that while it looks like an Alden, it really doesn't like working with a FILCA - or any dedicated cassette, for that matter. Here's a quick comparison of the Computrol, Prinz, and Alden door-closing mechanisms:



(I can't find my Watsons - I've only just moved house and a lot of stuff is still in boxes!)

Of the three, the Prinz is the worst to use because they placed a flat spring to act as a "clicker" on the serrated wheel that counts the frames loaded right in the way of the cassette chamber. It is a nightmare to get a cassette in and out, and this is even more the case with the slightly larger FILCA - it's a real struggle. Once it's in you then have to make sure the winding crank is fully engaged, as it also doesn't find the right slot every time. However, it will close the FILCA well. Good luck getting it back out, though.

The other two both engage with a FILCA easily and cleanly, but the Alden needs downwards pressure on the locking knob to ensure the FILCA closes. This is seemingly because the knob can be pulled much further up than the Computrol, which actually makes it easier to insert and remove cassettes overall. If you weren't pushing downwards on the knob, I can see why you might be having problems, but other than that, there's no issues.

One last thing, though - note that the yellow Alden has a rectangular slot for a cassette mechanism, while the Prinz in grey and Computrol in red both have round ones. This is because it's the only one of the three that can engage with a Zeiss cassette at all, and the rectangular slot is to accommodate the different closing mechanism. A Contax cassette won't even fit in the other two (they don't have a space for the Zeiss cassette's locator lug) so if you ever plan on using a Zeiss camera, go for the Alden.

 

[punkzter]

When I bulk rolled, I liked re-using kodak or ilford cassettes, taping the new film to a stub of the old film still in the cassette. I have a bunch of cassettes if you'd like them.

 

[picklesthefrog12]

This is interesting, because I've never had an issue with the Alden loaders and either FILCAs or IXMOOs. They're an utter nightmare with Contax and Contax-patterned cassettes (like the Canon and late Leotax ones), but FILCAs close and click into place perfectly. I actually have to put the entire bulk loader into a dark bag to make sure Contax-style cassettes are closed in an Alden.

As an aside, one of the biggest problems with the Prinz one is that while it looks like an Alden, it really doesn't like working with a FILCA - or any dedicated cassette, for that matter. Here's a quick comparison of the Computrol, Prinz, and Alden door-closing mechanisms:

View attachment 4890186

(I can't find my Watsons - I've only just moved house and a lot of stuff is still in boxes!)

Of the three, the Prinz is the worst to use because they placed a flat spring to act as a "clicker" on the serrated wheel that counts the frames loaded right in the way of the cassette chamber. It is a nightmare to get a cassette in and out, and this is even more the case with the slightly larger FILCA - it's a real struggle. Once it's in you then have to make sure the winding crank is fully engaged, as it also doesn't find the right slot every time. However, it will close the FILCA well. Good luck getting it back out, though.

The other two both engage with a FILCA easily and cleanly, but the Alden needs downwards pressure on the locking knob to ensure the FILCA closes. This is seemingly because the knob can be pulled much further up than the Computrol, which actually makes it easier to insert and remove cassettes overall. If you weren't pushing downwards on the knob, I can see why you might be having problems, but other than that, there's no issues.

One last thing, though - note that the yellow Alden has a rectangular slot for a cassette mechanism, while the Prinz in grey and Computrol in red both have round ones. This is because it's the only one of the three that can engage with a Zeiss cassette at all, and the rectangular slot is to accommodate the different closing mechanism. A Contax cassette won't even fit in the other two (they don't have a space for the Zeiss cassette's locator lug) so if you ever plan on using a Zeiss camera, go for the Alden.

I have a canon v film magazine to go in my new to me canon L3, and my alden doesnt fit in it properly, but it opens and closes it with a little effort. i believe since the cassette doesnt fit properly in the loader, it spins wildly and therefore scratches my film. at least thats my theory, unless my cassette is messed up somehow. the film doesnt scratch at least to my knowledge on factory/reused factory cassettes in the L3, so the camera is out of the picture. i'll test more later, as I will load a roll up in the canon cassette manually without a bulk loader to see if my hypothesis is correct.

 

[brothernature]

Maybe a stupid question, but with bulk loading I've never understood how the last frame isn't ruined, and how that doesn't affect your shooting. Seems really annoying to have to pay attention to when you're getting close to the last frame and to make sure nothing you care about will be on it. Is there a way to avoid that?

 

[boojum]

Maybe a stupid question, but with bulk loading I've never understood how the last frame isn't ruined, and how that doesn't affect your shooting. Seems really annoying to have to pay attention to when you're getting close to the last frame and to make sure nothing you care about will be on it. Is there a way to avoid that?

In my experience from many years back bulk loaded gave the same results as commercial.

 

[picklesthefrog12]

Maybe a stupid question, but with bulk loading I've never understood how the last frame isn't ruined, and how that doesn't affect your shooting. Seems really annoying to have to pay attention to when you're getting close to the last frame and to make sure nothing you care about will be on it. Is there a way to avoid that?

to avoid it, with most bulk loaders, is to start the spool/cassette in the dark, or in a dark bag. that way from the start (not leader ofc) to the end you have no missed frames via loading. i honestly dont care too much about it, i usually know when i hit either 22 or 32 that my last frame or two will be lost.

 

[Freakscene]

Maybe a stupid question, but with bulk loading I've never understood how the last frame isn't ruined, and how that doesn't affect your shooting. Seems really annoying to have to pay attention to when you're getting close to the last frame and to make sure nothing you care about will be on it. Is there a way to avoid that?

Load in the dark.

 

[Coldkennels]

Yeah, you can hook up the cassette in a dark bag, close the loader, and wind on the film in the light. It's a bit inconvenient, but it does mean you get an accurate length of film without damaging it (which I think you might struggle to do if you just loaded the film into the canister by hand in the dark bag).

I usually don't bother and accept the last frame is going to be burnt. It's never been a real issue.

 

[brothernature]

And the plastic re-usable cassettes are very reliable? Or is there a better option

 

[picklesthefrog12]

And the plastic re-usable cassettes are very reliable? Or is there a better option

i would 100% reccomend reusing your old cassettes from the factory. ive had plenty of bad light leaks with those plastic ones. i typically reuse the cassettes i buy/get from my local lab once or twice max. there is an issue of scratching the film if the felt has some debris in it, but i haven't had a lot of issues with that. if you have a leica you can get these metal "ixmoo" cassettes or "filca" depending on if you have an m (ixmoo) or a barnack (filca). and theres plenty of other makes and models of them for specific camera types/companies, like my canon which i believe doesnt have any scratches on it when i didnt use my bulk loader, simply just stretching it out until i got roughly 2 ft of film for a short test roll. regardless of which metal one you get, they *shouldnt* (keyword shouldnt) scratch your film when used correctly. these metal ones are the best of the best, but unfortunately not universal.

tldr: reuse old cassettes like once or twice, make sure to leave the last bit of film out of the canister (so dont crack it open when you develop - or go to a local lab and ask for their trashed ones), tape the end of the bulk roll to that little tongue, and away you bulk load

 

[julio1fer]

Maybe a stupid question, but with bulk loading I've never understood how the last frame isn't ruined, and how that doesn't affect your shooting. Seems really annoying to have to pay attention to when you're getting close to the last frame and to make sure nothing you care about will be on it. Is there a way to avoid that?

Not a stupid question at all. If you use the recommended turns for your load, frame 36 is safe. In my Lloyd that is 31 turns. It also depends on how long is the initial waste when loading your camera, but I have never had a problem. You do not need to load in the dark (unless to give you a safer feeling).

 

[steveyork]

Not a stupid question at all. If you use the recommended turns for your load, frame 36 is safe. In my Lloyd that is 31 turns. It also depends on how long is the initial waste when loading your camera, but I have never had a problem. You do not need to load in the dark (unless to give you a safer feeling).

And that's why they're called "daylight loaders." Last frame isn't ruined; the first frames are, but that's the leader that winds onto the spool when the film is loaded. Bulk loading is simple, easy, and for most cost effective, long as the film isn't Kodak. Most bulk loads save about 40% off the cost of commercial loads (except Kodak). The "inexpensive" bulk rolls of film are Fomapan, Kentmere, and Orwo (when you can get it), all good films. I've shot a boatload of bulk loaded Foma over the last decade and a half, and I've seen those bulk rolls go from $30 --> $85 under the Arista label.

 

[brothernature]

Thanks everyone! When I was losing last frames I was reusing old cassettes. Maybe I was being too generous with the amount I left out to tape the film to? I'll have to try again at some point. I shoot a lot of HP5+ and it's getting to be around $10 a roll. Would be nice to get that down to around ~$8

 

[kiemchacsu]

In my experience from many years back bulk loaded gave the same results as commercial.

no, tHAT'S not true at all in my case,
I can buy 1000 ft of fomapan 400 for $570, which yields roughly 180 rolls;
So, only $3.16/ roll 36 EXP for film cost. I can get used canisters from the LAB for nothing.

 

[boojum]

no, tHAT'S not true at all in my case,
I can buy 1000 ft of fomapan 400 for $570, which yields roughly 180 rolls;
So, only $3.16/ roll 36 EXP for film cost. I can get used canisters from the LAB for nothing.

We have an error in understanding. I was only speaking of the results from the film home wound vs commercially wound, not costs. I saved a lot bulk loading. Good thing, I was just a kid, like 14, and had somewhere between little and no money.