What if Nikon (and Canon) released new RF FILM cameras (and lenses)?

[colker]

This hits the nail on the head. No one single camera could appeal to everyone in the market for a new CaNikon RF, so economic viability suffers.
In addition, no-one has the tooling for the mechanical stuff. You can get electronics, lenses, casings manufactured in China on short notice (not that CaNikon would need them from third parties, but in-house they must have a similar situation), but mechanical shutters and rangefinders need testing and tooling that probably no-one can do ad hoc nowadays. So prices would be higher than even in the old days with their economies of scale.
Most promising would be an approach with only the RF newly designed or reverse engineered, using a modern shutter, F6 film advance mechanism (if Nikon did it) and casing from modern materials. (But the traditionalists wouldn't buy such a beast.)

And what rhl-oregon suggests, of course.

I believe a new design could work. NOt a remake of a classic to compete w/ the old cameras still being sold. Remakes are way more expensive.

Cosina did it. Cosina keeps releasing new lenses without David Byrne.

 

[colker]

You're right. But most of them are using K1000s, Nikon FEs, and Canon AE1s. Some of them maybe a Pentax 6x7 or older Rolleiflex. The high-priced cameras are often going to collectors who don't use them, or older guys who couldn't afford them when they came out.

It's a pipe-dream but you seem intent on rationalizing it. Have fun, but, ain't gonna happen.

All i am saying is: Cosina did it. The giants, Fuji, Nikon and Canon, are ignoring this new albeit small market. If it keeps growing, someone will make a move.

 

[css9450]

Nope. There is a new generation of film users.

It´s not opinon or wishes. Just check the prices of film cameras now and compare to 3 or 4 yrs ago.
The scene has changed.

The "new generation" of film users is as much interested in using vintage gear as they are in film itself. In other words, a clean 40-to-60 year-old camera will appeal to them sooner than a brand-new one would be even if the price were the same. And it won't be.... A clean-sheet new film RF in 2019? It'll be expensive.


Maybe Cosina can be coaxed into re-starting SLR production. Perhaps a new Nikon FM10? That is FAR more likely than Nikon creating something else on its own. But the problem with a "new" FM10 is sales would be undercut by the thousands available every day on Ebay, for very cheap.

 

[colker]

The "new generation" of film users is as much interested in using vintage gear as they are in film itself. In other words, a clean 40-to-60 year-old camera will appeal to them sooner than a brand-new one would be even if the price were the same. And it won't be.... A clean-sheet new film RF in 2019? It'll be expensive.


Maybe Cosina can be coaxed into re-starting SLR production. Perhaps a new Nikon FM10? That is FAR more likely than Nikon creating something else on its own. But the problem with a "new" FM10 is sales would be undercut by the thousands available every day on Ebay, for very cheap.

Bessas and the ZI ZM keep selling. A Zeiss Ikon which is a new camera sells for 1.8k. Bessas are new. NOt a 40 yr old camera.

It´s the RF camera. NOt the SLR.

 

[Huss]

Yes, of course. If your ultimate goal is to keep Leica in business, then knock yourself out.

I guess your ultimate goal is to reap the benefits of other people’s hard work.

You wouldnt have your Leica if Leica didnt make it. And Leica dont make used cameras...

 

[mod2001]

That is wrong.
The F6 is in production. It is officially listed on Nikon's current product page. If a Nikon product is discontinued, it is listed on Nikon's discontinued list (and you won't find the F6 there). Just recently several journalists have visited the Nikon Sendai factory where the F6 is made and have seen the F6 line.
https://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166042

Noted 🙂


Juergen

 

[Sumarongi]

😡 And I want a Leicaflex SL3! 😛

Bessas and the ZI ZM keep selling. A Zeiss Ikon which is a new camera sells for 1.8k. Bessas are new. NOt a 40 yr old camera.

It´s the RF camera. NOt the SLR.

😡 😡 😡

*I* insist, *I* want a Leicaflex SL3!

😛 😛 😛

 

[css9450]

😡 😡 😡

*I* insist, *I* want a Leicaflex SL3!

😛 😛 😛

No, no, no, you're all wrong! A new Spotmatic, uses M42 lenses, has AE and takes a modern battery. It'll sell like hotcakes!

 

[raid]

A slim camera similar to the Pentax LX but as a rangefinder camera. I never got an LX, and I want one now as a RF camera.

 

[Huss]

The "new generation" of film users is as much interested in using vintage gear as they are in film itself. In other words, a clean 40-to-60 year-old camera will appeal to them sooner than a brand-new one would be even if the price were the same. And it won't be.... A clean-sheet new film RF in 2019? It'll be expensive.

I used to think that too but from what i’ve seen at my local film shop in LA the majority of kids are using plastic fantastic cameras whether af slrs or p&s. basically anything they get their hands on. it’s the film student kids that are using traditional manual cameras.

 

[Corran]

All i am saying is: Cosina did it. The giants, Fuji, Nikon and Canon, are ignoring this new albeit small market. If it keeps growing, someone will make a move.

Yes, almost 20 years ago, when the 2.7mp Nikon D1 had just been released and "pro" digital was in its infancy. And now they don't make cameras anymore, because...there isn't a market for it.

All of their lens design now has been refocused towards mirrorless cameras and the last remaining RF producer, since for most folks after one buys a Leica digital RF they don't have much money left for the Leitz lenses.

No matter what, a new film camera from any of those folks will be expensive, much more expensive than many/most good film cameras available all day long on eBay or your local thrift store for $20 - $100. And lenses...well unless you use a mount/system that completely shuts out the millions upon millions of cheap, used, and still good lenses out there, no one is going to buy any, since they either have a closet full or again can buy them used for pennies on the dollar.

Let me remind you that modern lens design is complete overkill for 35mm film, save for the rare person shooting silly high-resolution, re-purposed microfilm with special developers so they can get basically mediocre medium-format quality.

At the end of the day, I will say that camera manufacturers need to do something to revitalize sales. Everyone is hopping on the mirrorless train now but it's still basically the same camera in a different form-factor that they've been making for a decade. More megapixels and obscure features is not the answer, IMO. Folks are realizing this and not upgrading nearly as often as used to be common.

 

[Larry Cloetta]

Cosina experimented w/ RF lenses and it is working.


It´s not about RFF or me or a couple other old people. it´s about a market for film users. It´s not dead. Not for 5k cameras maybe ... but a 1k film camera from Nikon, built like an FM, would sell.

I'm sure the head bartender might offer up some sobering facts about how many years some of those single, small production run RF lenses sat on the shelf before anyone bought them. Nice lenses, and a valiant effort, but if you are the manufacturer, it's a problem. Cosina knows exactly what the market is, they learned the hard way, and there's a good reason they are not pumping out a steady stream of Nikon rf mount lenses. And won't unless there is some kind of sake binge some evening.

"but a 1k film camera from Nikon, built like an FM"

You try doing this and let us know how it works out. LOL. I thought I was unrealistic. Reminds me of that old saw about the new manufacturer who wanted to revolutionize the widget market. He was going to sell widgets for $1,000 and his fixed production costs per unit were $1,400. When asked how he intended to make the business profitable he said, "Volume!"

"It´s not dead." No, but it's looking a bit pale.

 

[Sumarongi]

😡 😡 😡

*I* insist, *I* want a Leicaflex SL3!

No, no, no, you're all wrong! A new Spotmatic, uses M42 lenses, has AE and takes a modern battery. It'll sell like hotcakes!

A slim camera similar to the Pentax LX but as a rangefinder camera. I never got an LX, and I want one now as a RF camera.

No, no, NOOOOO! You are wrong!, utterly completely totally wrongly wrong!!!
The trend scouts and futurologists say: IT MUST BE CHUNKY! Like a BRICK! A huuuuuge heavy BRICK!
The coming 35mm still camera MUST have size and weight of a 6x6 camera!

 

[css9450]

The trend scouts and futurologists say: IT MUST BE CHUNKY! Like a BRICK! A huuuuuge heavy BRICK!

You're on to something... An Argus C-3!! 😱

 

[Sumarongi]

You're on to something... An Argus C-3!! 😱

Yeah! But no bakelite, rather *brass* and *steel*, please 😀

 

[jawarden]

Before Nikon make any more RF cameras I'd rather have them making scanners again.

A new modern Nikon MF scanner would be sweet, and I would buy one. Don't know how many others would, but count me in.

 

[zuiko85]

What would be the best imaginable classic re-issue?

Ask one hundred on this forum and you are likely to get 100 different responses. That is what the responses to this post show so far. I'll add mine. I want a new issue OM-1.
Fat!
Chance!
And, even if Olympus had a spare 50~60 million USD just sitting around to waste setting up production for a camera that has such limited sales potential, then the price would have to $10K per copy (at least) just to break even.

 

[zuiko85]

There are some folks who ran a Kickstarter campaign to make a new (and very feature laden) 35mm SLR. They collected about $155K after fees. Those backers will never see their money or any product. Doesn't matter. The camera envisioned was a hodge-podge of old ideas, too complicated by far.

 

[colker]

There are some folks who ran a Kickstarter campaign to make a new (and very feature laden) 35mm SLR. They collected about $155K after fees. Those backers will never see their money or any product. Doesn't matter. The camera envisioned was a hodge-podge of old ideas, too complicated by far.

SLRs are not being sold at 2k on eBay. Zeiss Ikon ZM is. Both Bessa and ZI are being sold for more than when released.
Nikon F3s street value is 500 dollars? Less?
A Leica M6 is costing 2x more then 3 yrs ago.
It´s about rangefinders.
It did not come out of nowhere. Fujifilm x100 and xpro mimic rangefinders.

There are less rangefinders but loads of SLRs around. Nikon still sells the F6. Leica still sells a mechanical RF but costs north of 4k.

I know it makes no sense talking about a new film camera... but those are selling. It´s a niche... but it´s growing. Digital is about to stall and It´s too expensive.

 

[jsrockit]

There are some folks who ran a Kickstarter campaign to make a new (and very feature laden) 35mm SLR. They collected about $155K after fees. Those backers will never see their money or any product. Doesn't matter. The camera envisioned was a hodge-podge of old ideas, too complicated by far.

I can’t see why this one can’t be made if they reached their goal.