What is a "Gallery"

[Bertram2]

Hi to all,

related to the latest lmitations which got necessary because of the mass of photos uploaded daily I miss the discussion about content and quality , which is connected to the quantitative problem.

Is a gallery like the RFF gallery simply a shoebox in the web for all subscribers, a place to post photos of anything and everything , the photog's unrevisited "raw" ouput ?.

Or is it a "Gallery" in the proper traditional sense of the word ? This would be a place to show the very best of your work only and posted to get some constructive criticism.

There is a a large part of the daily pic-input which belongs to the "raw output " definition and the question is why should this be interesting for the rest of the members ?

One example only: I mean I can understand that somebody gets so desparate by his creative paralysis that he takes one camera to shoot his other cameras with but is it necessary to post THAT in the gallery ?

IMO the quality prob causes the quantitative prob AND the lack of constructive criticism we have in this gallery.

There are some really good photogs and craftsmen here in the forum and watching their photos I am often surprised how very poor the response of the fellow members is, not better than it is for the the stuff which can be counted to the personal reminders, careless snapshots, thoughtlessly fired shutters.

There is not much communication going on here when it comes to the photos and if at all it happens any kind of negative opinion (mostly) is strictly avoided. At this point this place gets bit too friendly and peaceful , for my taste.

My suggestion would be to install at least a separate gallery ( as this done at other forums already) where all those can post their photos who are interested in a constructive dialog and whose personality does not dissolve in tears because another member says it is faulty and he does not like it.

Those who understand their photos as a self presenation and do not want any response or if at all then only paceful praise of friends can stay outta there. No prob, to each his own.

I miss a constructive dialog ( among grown ups tho who KNOW what they are talking about) here and at the time I find no answer to the question why I should spend time and effort to post halfways decent photos at RFF any longer .

Maybe I should delete them all , post one selfportrait only instead ( me with my cameras in the toilet or so) and restrict myself in reading some forum threads from time to time ?

Regards to all,

Bertram

 

[bmattock]

I would be just as happy if there were no gallery here at all. Photos posted in a thread are fleeting, but usually pertain to the thread and can be found again if searched for. Gallery photos say one thing to newbies - pile on.

I joined a particular photo place once, it was supposed to be a place where one went to post their photos that they would like critiqued. They could earn 'points' for the critiques voted them by their fellow users, and for leaving critiques and writing articles, etc.

It all started out well enough. It went downhill from there.

Some people came for the amateur porno. Some came to post their best work and gloat over those who were not as good as them. Some posted copyrighted photos taken by others, for some reason that escapes me. Some came to post photos that they knew would annoy, shock, or outrage as many people as possible. Most came to upload every frame that had ever escaped their camera, like poets who insist on reading their own poetry.

It ended up, as all efforts of this type do, with everybody uploading everything they could as fast as they could, spamming other people to "Hey, look at my stuff!" and offering to rate someone's photos high if someone would rate their photos high - and for what? Ego. Envy.

It's all crap. 98% of what everyone produces, myself included, is pure dross. The 2% that isn't utter crap is worthy of sharing with friends such as here on RFF, but it should be here and gone - moving on to the next thing. If you want to find it later, go get it out of the threads where it was posted.

Some say that if there were no gallery, we'd lose a lot of members. Good! Those people should go away. If a person is only here to post everything they can find on their hard drive to the Gallery and say "Hey, look at me!" then who needs them or their massive egos?

For me - I come to RFF for one thing - the communication. I enjoy the occasional photo I see posted in a thread, but I seldom go into the Gallery anymore.

I think your photos are all terrible and you should be horse-whipped for producing them. I want to claw my eyes out for having seen them. Of course, I feel the same way about my OWN photos, so there. My stuff stinks on ice.

I come here to talk about (primarily) rangefinder cameras and the issues surrounding them.

Take the galleries away, let the looky-loos go post somewhere else and tell each other how great they are. We don't need them, and they certainly don't need us.

Well, that oughta make everybody good and mad this morning. With Roger gone, somebody has to pick up the slack.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

PS - In more reasonable terms - I think we could have a community AND a gallery if we had a rule that said you had to be a member for x months and have x number of posts BEFORE you could post a photo. The guys who just want to upload everything they've ever snapped would get bored and go away - or learn to communicate with, um, words and stuff.

 

[Kris]

Bill, I guess it's unavoidable that RFF eventually becomes like P.net (at least that's my impression) as it grows: more pointless debates, selfish people registered as members only to sell, as well as heaps of junk in the gallery. I haven't been active for the last 6 months because of this. Guess this time I'll be out of here completely although those RFF buddies from the old days are welcomed to send PMs.

 

[oftheherd]

...


Well, that oughta make everybody good and mad this morning. With Roger gone, somebody has to pick up the slack.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks


...

Roger is gone? What did I miss?

I so seldom go to the gallery, I guess it doesn't bother me much either way. I enjoy looking at good photography. I just have a time problem, and enjoy reading posts about RFF more anyway I guess. Even the occasional OT thread. Mostly really good folk here so I do read as much as possible, but not everthing either. That time problem.

 

[bmattock]

Roger is gone? What did I miss?

I so seldom go to the gallery, I guess it doesn't bother me much either way. I enjoy looking at good photography. I just have a time problem, and enjoy reading posts about RFF more anyway I guess. Even the occasional OT thread. Mostly really good folk here so I do read as much as possible, but not everthing either. That time problem.

Oh, he had a long goodbye yesterday. Joe finally locked the thread, I believe. Lots of recriminations and misplaced aggression and kids who didn't get breast-fed, I guess. I'll miss him, mostly because he could get up my sleeve like few others.

As far as the gallery goes - if I look at them, I tend to look at my own - I'm a narcissist, you see. If I have a nice positive response from someone whom I know and like online, I feel compelled or obliged to reciprocate - even if I hate their stuff, which I do. Then I have to say something nice about junk that should be printed and hung in a gallery so that the gallery can be burned down as an example to all mankind, with the photographer's cameras inside as well, preferably.

I never say what I really want - which are comments like "Why did you feel compelled to exhibit your complete and utter lack of photographic talent in this way?" and "As photographers go, you may be a good factory worker."

I therefore presume that anyone who says anything nice about my work is also likewise gritting their teeth and straining to say something nice about my photos that make them want to beat their dogs and drive their cars off bridges.

So what's the point? Nearly all photos are awful and should never see the light of day. Those few that make it should be hidden away from the general public, unless your intent is to show them to people you hate and provoke them to madness.

So let's close the gallery completely. Or if we must have one, let's make a high criteria before a photo can be exhibited there at all, and then limit to one every six months, something like that. And then age them offline again - one six month run, then oblivion as they all deserve anyway.

Ain't I a pill this morning? :angel:

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[bmattock]

Bill, I guess it's unavoidable that RFF eventually becomes like P.net (at least that's my impression) as it grows: more pointless debates, selfish people registered as members only to sell, as well as heaps of junk in the gallery. I haven't been active for the last 6 months because of this. Guess this time I'll be out of here completely although those RFF buddies from the old days are welcomed to send PMs.

Just a little choked with weeds, is all. RFF is still the best place ever - but like any garden, it requires tending. I say we start by turfing everyone who threatens to leave if things don't change to their liking, and writing obscenities in their gallery comments. We should follow up by dumping everyone who begs anyone else to stay after they threaten to leave or announce their departure (with or without 'huff'). Please don't go!

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[wdenies]

I gave it up.
I started many threads/discussions about quantity/quality and self criticism, ex. stating that a gallery is something else than a photoalbum.
Result: fine work still is drown in junk.

Tip: to receive positive feedback shoot in B&W (quality does not matter), do not dare (as profs do) to convert a colour picture to B&W

 

[egpj]

Bill has caused me to fall into an ecstasy, speak the WORD brother!

 

[bmattock]

I gave it up.
I started many threads/discussions about quantity/quality and self criticism, ex. stating that a gallery is something else than a photoalbum.
Result: fine work still is drown in junk.

Tip: to receive positive feedback shoot in B&W (quality does not matter), do not dare (as profs do) to convert a colour picture to B&W

That's because when friends criticise friend's work, they don't give criticism, they give encouragement. This is fine - for friends.

Critiques should be brutal, honest, and even angry. Given by those who hate everything and everybody and are well-grounded in fine art and photographic history, and who will never have a friend in their life.

RFF is a coffeeshop where friends who love rangefinder cameras hang out and chat with each other. That was the stated intention to begin with anyway, as I recall. The gallery was kind of a second thought.

I agree, the gallery is more of a photo album where we share our terrible work and encourage others to make more crap while they encourage us to make more crap too. Half of us should have our lenses ground into dust, and the other half should have our eyes put out with red-hot knitting needles.

My friends tell me that I look great - I'm not all *that* fat. They say I have a great personality, and that they don't care that I have a strange odor most of the time. That's what friends do, and I love them for it.

My enemies refer to me as "That fat, idiotic, muck-raker and shit-stirrer of the highest order, that angry sweaty bald blimp with a perverted sense of humor."

Which description is more accurate?

None of us like the truth from our friends. And we are all friends here, aren't we?

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[hoot]

Bill and Bertram both have good points, and I'd be glad to see either of their suggestions implemented.

 

[kiev4a]

Bill:

Watch out or you will be designated the RF Forum's official curmudgeon🙂

After reading some of these posts I went to my gallery and in a fit of guilt deleted almost all the pictures of my grandaughter as well as some other odds and ends.

I disagree, however, with the theory that if there is a gallery at all, it should be limited to the "best of the best." I have, on occassion, posted some pretty mundane shots taken with FSU gear just to prove that a certain model is capable of producing decent results. Hopefully, that is useful information to someone else who is curious about the equipment.

We all know photography is a very subjective pursuit and everyone has an opinion. Most of my photos wouldn't even get an honorable mention in an amateur contest, but I like 'em, and isn't that what photography is about--pleasing yourself? On the other hand, "pleasing yourself" IMHO doesn't mean uploading every single mother-loving picture shot during your annual trip to Aunt Martha's.

Sorry I missed Roger's departure. That'all teach me to stay off line for five hours. Must have been entertaining.

 

[back alley]

what is a gallery?

this has never been clearly defined by jorge or by the membership.

however, there have been a few discussions on the forum about this. maybe a search would asist.
the idea of criticsm has also been discussed and as best as i can recall, it was left to the individual TO ASK for it if they wanted.

there were a couple of threads where members asked for a critique of an individual shots, i thought that was an excellent idea.

to think that a diverse group such as ours could ever possibly agree is silly.
maybe we risk being bland in out niceness (a criticism often hurled at canadians) but i have come to welcome that over the alternatives.

peace out brothers & sisters...
joe

 

[kiev4a]

Yeah, you Canadians are so nice you are disgusting. Makes the rest of us in the hemisphere look bad (which isn't difficult to do).🙂

 

[bmattock]

Bill:

Watch out or you will be designated the RF Forum's official curmudgeon🙂

You mean I'm not already? My only goal in life is to live long enough to be an old coot. I wish to learn cootery and practice it with wild abandon.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[GeneW]

Perhaps with a cap on uploads per day, some of us can return to highlighting gallery photos of the week that struck our fancy. I miss that -- it became too hard to sift through the dross with so much uploading taking place. There are some really fine photographs being posted in the gallery and I like them to get their Warholian 15 mins ...

Gene

 

[Roman]

Well, I disagree with most of what has been said, and my own gallery is the proof...

I come here to hang out with guys with similar interest, chat a bit, mostly about cameras, but occasionally about pics as well (and some OT stuff & jokes thrown in as well). To me, the gallery is just an extension of that - post your pics to show what you are working on at the moment, what kind of pics you like to take, what you use your equipment for, etc. - simply like a virtual meeting of a good mixture of equipment nerds, amateurs, great photographers and lesser ones, like-minded guys (and the occasional gal), who pass around their own pics, which need not be great art, which differ widely in subjects, interests and quality, which some want to have critiqued, and others don't, and that's OK.
I never considered the RFF gallery to be a serious photo critique place, nor a place to exhibit your very best pics, and only those that aspire if not to high art, then at least to 'real' gallery standards. No, that's not the place where I'd like to post my pics, I'm not an artist at all, and don't aspire at any moment to be one, I'm just a guy who likes quirky old cameras, likes to take B&W pics (even if they are only holiday & family snaps), and likes to mess around in a wet darkroom, and show and compare what he does there.

In my opinion, if you want serious critique, well, look for an appropriate place (though, frankly, I don't know any) - or specifically ask for that; if you want to show off your very best pics and show what a great artist you are, well, make your own homepage (there's a reason why I don't have one and don't want one).
To me, RFF is a great place for amateurs (in the original sense of the word - someone who loves doing something - no matter whether he is good at it) of all kinds & abilities, and that kind of definition does neither exclude the occasional professional nor the 'artist' to meet and chat, and the gallery is a likewise place, just in a non-verbal kind.

On the other hand I totally agree that it is not quite OK to come here and upload pages and pages of holiday snaps (even though there's nothing wrong with that kind of pic per se), and then disappear and never participate in the community again... (though I don't know how to prevent that, except with daily upload limits).

Roman

 

[bmattock]

what is a gallery?

A cul de sac, down which people are lured with promises of sweets, before being horrified by awful photographs or paintings.

this has never been clearly defined by jorge or by the membership.

They've never defined radioactive waste, either. Nevertheless, we have mountains of it about.

however, there have been a few discussions on the forum about this. maybe a search would asist.

All your searches are belong to us.

the idea of criticsm has also been discussed and as best as i can recall, it was left to the individual TO ASK for it if they wanted.

Yes, please insult me and be mean to my work.

there were a couple of threads where members asked for a critique of an individual shots, i thought that was an excellent idea.

And then argued with those who tried to be honest. Like 'civilization', I suppose honest criticism would be a good idea.

to think that a diverse group such as ours could ever possibly agree is silly.
maybe we risk being bland in out niceness (a criticism often hurled at canadians) but i have come to welcome that over the alternatives.

And with good reason - they put something in the (frozen) water up there.

peace out brothers & sisters...
joe

I may break out into Kumbaya at any moment.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[kiev4a]

Roman:

You hit the nail on the head. Virtually all the people who upload virtually EVERYTHING never participate in the discussions. Don't know if they just consider the gallery a storage area. If I want to archive a photo it's going to be at a much higher dpi than is practical to send to the gallery.

 

[back alley]

i'm with roman!
well said and you pretty much have captured my thoughts as well.

this is a sanctuary where regular folks can come to hang out and talk gear and pics.
i see no need for brutality of any sort.

maybe there needs to be another forum somewhere, for severe honesty and brutality, where the truly strong can go to be horse whipped into being more creative.

joe🙂

 

[Kevin]

Just a little choked with weeds, is all. RFF is still the best place ever - but like any garden, it requires tending.

I'll post my best garden pics if that will help any. I haven't posted any pics in the gallery yet, but I will if you like the herb so much. 😀