J. Borger
Well-known
IMHO it makes no sense to buy a DR without goggles! Especially if you already have a rigid.
Because you can not use the feature that distinguishes it from a rigid. There is nothing Dual about that lens without the goggles. You can not focus closer than 1m without them.
Resell value without goggles is also of concern.
Because you can not use the feature that distinguishes it from a rigid. There is nothing Dual about that lens without the goggles. You can not focus closer than 1m without them.
Resell value without goggles is also of concern.
k__43
Registered Film User
Yes, if you have the Rigid I wouldn't go for a DR at all .. especially w/o goggles.
The price here for a good DR with goggles is around €700+
I once bought mine for €300 and sold it for more.
I'd say a user w/o goggles (and good glass condition) shouldn't go for more than €450-500 at least I wouldn't pay more than €450.
A DR can be changed to fit the M8/M9 .. you have to shave off the close focus cam, but this is a crime (my opinion)
Erwin Puts says the rigid and the DR are identical. I've read somewhere (no serious source) that the DR were handpicked lens modules to perform excellent in the close focus setting.
The price here for a good DR with goggles is around €700+
I once bought mine for €300 and sold it for more.
I'd say a user w/o goggles (and good glass condition) shouldn't go for more than €450-500 at least I wouldn't pay more than €450.
A DR can be changed to fit the M8/M9 .. you have to shave off the close focus cam, but this is a crime (my opinion)
Erwin Puts says the rigid and the DR are identical. I've read somewhere (no serious source) that the DR were handpicked lens modules to perform excellent in the close focus setting.
ferider
Veteran
Rigid and DR are optically the same lens, Raid, they were announced together and manufactured in parallel. Optical blocks within a certain measured focal length tolerance were used for the DR, to guarantee close focus accuracy, while others were used for the rigid. Also, mechanically, except for the google transmission, they are built the same. The rigid handles a little differently, since it has an infinity lock, where the DR doesn't.
Both are the same first Mandler design, and also the first computer optimized Leitz lens. For M-mount, they were announced in parallel in 1956, the rigid as 11118 / SOOIC-MS and the DR as 11318 / SOOIC-MN (later SOMNI). The screw mount version of the rigid (for the IIIG) was catalogued in 1961 and called SOSTA.
Nowadays, when in similar condition and for M mount, the rigid is worth more since it fits Bessas and digital Leicas, where the DR has to be irreversibly modified (breaking the close focus ability). A clean rigid can easily go over US 1k these days. On the other hand, KEH is currently selling an EX DR without googles for US $849. In my experience, clean copies of either are very rare, they usually come with scratches ("cleaning marks") or haze or both.
Gone are the days when we traded these lenses for US 300 .... (only 2 years ago ?)
Roland.
Both are the same first Mandler design, and also the first computer optimized Leitz lens. For M-mount, they were announced in parallel in 1956, the rigid as 11118 / SOOIC-MS and the DR as 11318 / SOOIC-MN (later SOMNI). The screw mount version of the rigid (for the IIIG) was catalogued in 1961 and called SOSTA.
Nowadays, when in similar condition and for M mount, the rigid is worth more since it fits Bessas and digital Leicas, where the DR has to be irreversibly modified (breaking the close focus ability). A clean rigid can easily go over US 1k these days. On the other hand, KEH is currently selling an EX DR without googles for US $849. In my experience, clean copies of either are very rare, they usually come with scratches ("cleaning marks") or haze or both.
Gone are the days when we traded these lenses for US 300 .... (only 2 years ago ?)
Roland.
jpfisher
Well-known
Yes, but you lose rangefinder coupling for close focus. Might be a practical for the new CMOS M with its live view, though. Cost is about $180 to have the coupling machined down.
You can use an unmodified DR Cron on other mirrorless camera systems--NEX, Micro Four Thirds--without modification. I've owned one that I had modified, sold it and then bought an unmodified one for my M3. (I regret having the modification done to the first one; but it found its way into the hands of another member here who shoots it with an M9, so there's that.)
I blogged a bit about it if you are looking for more in-depth information--http://www.daguerreotyping.com/?p=1672
raid
Dad Photographer
This is a good link to know about.
About $1000 for DR plus goggles.
It cannot be used on the M8 or M9 without modifcations that remove its close-focus capabilities, making it a Rigid Summicron.
raid
Dad Photographer
Thank you for the information, Roland.
I did not buy the DR yet, as I am not convinced that in my case it is warranted or logical, but often we do not use logic when GAS hits hard.
If I buy the DR w/o goggles, it would be a second Rigid Cron for a film camera. The Rigid Cron has always been my favorite lens anyways, si having two of the same lens would be fine, even though I usually do not double on lenses. I am not a close-focus fanatic. Lenses focus close enough for what I do in photography. The Rigid Cron, if clean, does not sell often for below $750 anymore. The days of $300 clean Crons are gone.
raid
Dad Photographer
It is not about making sense, is it.
It would be a second Rigid Summicron for a film camera and at a reasonable cost. Resale value will drop with time since the lens cannot be used on the digital M bodies without some butchering.
zauhar
Veteran
Raid, I got a good copy with goggles for about $600 from CameraWest, but that was a while back before prices shot up.
I don't use the close range that much, but I would hate to lose it:
Randy
I don't use the close range that much, but I would hate to lose it:
Randy
raid
Dad Photographer
Whatever you said above makes sense.
A $500 DR w/o goggles would be very tempting to get if the lens is very clean.
Jerevan
Recycled User
If I remember correctly, it is possible to exchange the modules between a Rigid and a DR, provided that their actual focal length (inscribed on the module) are the same. Nice mechanical feel to the DR, but quite heavy/clunky to my mind (highly personal, of course).
erik
Established
Raid, I got a good copy with goggles for about $600 from CameraWest, but that was a while back before prices shot up.
I don't use the close range that much, but I would hate to lose it:
Randy
Randy that's the kind of picture that sends me searching for a DR! Very nice. I owned one years ago and have regretted selling it ever since. I have to stop reading these threads!
ashleyjhyap
Newbie
summicron DR (dual range) is an extremely well built lens. A lens good for B&W.
A good price for a relatively good piece (very minor cleaning marks, no haze or fungus; still including the goggles attachment) should be in the range of $900-1100
A good price for a relatively good piece (very minor cleaning marks, no haze or fungus; still including the goggles attachment) should be in the range of $900-1100
raid
Dad Photographer
Raid, I got a good copy with goggles for about $600 from CameraWest, but that was a while back before prices shot up.
I don't use the close range that much, but I would hate to lose it:
Randy
This is a lovely image, Randy.
If I get such a lens, it better come with the goggles.