goliathus
Well-known
Hi all !!
I think soemday I'll need a ultra-wide lens.
I've ever used a Contax biogon 21mm/4.5, it was a very nice one, except color saturation. (little bit low satrated when using negative film so I prefer to use it with Fuji velvia or Kodak E100vs) sadly, but I sold it to beef up my digital gears. :bang:
For these reasons, I'm searching for my second ultra wide lens.
the candidates are,
Carl zeiss biogon 21mm/4.5 (use it again?)
CV skopar 21mm/4 (good price!!)
W-Nikkor C 25mm/4 (I know, it's pretty hard to find
)
The most important feathers are distortion and flare resistance. (in my opinion, biogon 21mm was very weak when it under a strong back light condition)
Which lens do you recommend?
And here're some pics taken with biogon 21mm/4, enjoy it~
Nikon S2 / biogon 21mm F4.5 / Kodak E100VS
Nikon S2 / biogon 21mm F4.5 / Kodak E100VS
Nikon S2 / biogon 21mm F4.5 / Fuji reala 100
I think soemday I'll need a ultra-wide lens.
I've ever used a Contax biogon 21mm/4.5, it was a very nice one, except color saturation. (little bit low satrated when using negative film so I prefer to use it with Fuji velvia or Kodak E100vs) sadly, but I sold it to beef up my digital gears. :bang:
For these reasons, I'm searching for my second ultra wide lens.
the candidates are,
Carl zeiss biogon 21mm/4.5 (use it again?)
CV skopar 21mm/4 (good price!!)
W-Nikkor C 25mm/4 (I know, it's pretty hard to find
)The most important feathers are distortion and flare resistance. (in my opinion, biogon 21mm was very weak when it under a strong back light condition)
Which lens do you recommend?
And here're some pics taken with biogon 21mm/4, enjoy it~
Nikon S2 / biogon 21mm F4.5 / Kodak E100VS
Nikon S2 / biogon 21mm F4.5 / Kodak E100VS
Nikon S2 / biogon 21mm F4.5 / Fuji reala 100
Attachments
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dexdog
Veteran
I agree with f2eyelevel with regard to the lenses in question. I have the Biogon, and it is one of my favorite lenses for the Contax (I have not used it much on my SP, though). I also have the CV 21mm in LTM, and while it is a very good performer, I really prefer the look of the Biogon. With regard to saturation, I have always felt that the Biogon delivers rich, saturated images- as already mentioned, it is a matter of personal preference. One point in favor of the CV- the corners of the images do not exhibit the same degree of darkening characteristic of the Biogon.
The CV would be a lot cheaper to acquire than the Biogon.
The CV would be a lot cheaper to acquire than the Biogon.
VinceC
Veteran
The 25mm (2.5cm) Nikkor is an f/4, not f/3.5. I've never owned one, but pictures I've seen show medium contrast, on par with a 1950s lens.
Also don't forget the CV 25/4.
I own a Biogon 21/4.5 and a CV 25/4.
My daily wide lens is a Nikkor 2.8cm/3.5 ... I carry the CV 25/4 instead if I think I'll need a little extra width. I also use it when I want to be sure to match the modern color rendition and saturation of my Millenneum 50/1.4 that came with the S3-2000.
I don't care for the weight of the Biogon, and 21mm has always been a bit too wide for my taste and shooting style. But it is an excellent lens. When I do need to go as wide as possible, I use it.
Also don't forget the CV 25/4.
I own a Biogon 21/4.5 and a CV 25/4.
My daily wide lens is a Nikkor 2.8cm/3.5 ... I carry the CV 25/4 instead if I think I'll need a little extra width. I also use it when I want to be sure to match the modern color rendition and saturation of my Millenneum 50/1.4 that came with the S3-2000.
I don't care for the weight of the Biogon, and 21mm has always been a bit too wide for my taste and shooting style. But it is an excellent lens. When I do need to go as wide as possible, I use it.
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migtex
Don't eXchange Freedom!
The CV 21 has good contrast, the color rendition is also very good.
Fuji 160S
or in the B&W case
Kodak BW400
You can not go wrong with it.
Fuji 160S
or in the B&W case
Kodak BW400
You can not go wrong with it.
dexdog
Veteran
migtex, nice images. I agree, the CV 21 is a very good lens, and would be a great choice as a wide for a Nikon
goliathus
Well-known
Oh, I corrected my slip~
Migtex, your photos show me how CV lenses are good. How about its wide open shot?
And anyone knows a differences between 'W-nikkor' and 'W-nikkor C' ?
I found some pics of 2.5cm/4, but there are two type, with C and without C.
I guess it means un-coated and coated...
I think 2.5cm is very compact and small, it'll make my S2 as a real snap shooter.
Migtex, your photos show me how CV lenses are good. How about its wide open shot?
And anyone knows a differences between 'W-nikkor' and 'W-nikkor C' ?
I found some pics of 2.5cm/4, but there are two type, with C and without C.
I guess it means un-coated and coated...
I think 2.5cm is very compact and small, it'll make my S2 as a real snap shooter.
The red C was dropped in the late 50's because all lenses were coated so there was no point in emphasising the fact any longer. Nikkor RF lenses were always coated.
The CV 25/4 is a fine lens too.
The CV 25/4 is a fine lens too.
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migtex
Don't eXchange Freedom!
As requested.
A very dificult situation, indoors, mix light, CV 21mm Wide Open at f.4 on an Nikon S2- Film Fuji 160S.
Crumpler Store in Amsterdam (BTW avoid at all cost or you leave you credit card there, special if you take your wife with you... on the other hand.. maybe you can have another photo bag too...)
100% Crops on left , center and right side.
No sharp applied.
Just levels due the mix light!
A very dificult situation, indoors, mix light, CV 21mm Wide Open at f.4 on an Nikon S2- Film Fuji 160S.
Crumpler Store in Amsterdam (BTW avoid at all cost or you leave you credit card there, special if you take your wife with you
... on the other hand.. maybe you can have another photo bag too...)
100% Crops on left , center and right side.
No sharp applied.
Just levels due the mix light!
Attachments
goliathus
Well-known
Oh~ my...! your wide open shot looks very nice!, it shows me a enough good quality!! I'd better find a CV 21mm. Thanks a lot migtex ~
BillBingham2
Registered User
Goliathus,
As Vince and others have said, take a look at the CV 25/4. I would up that to say take a STRONG look at the 25/4 in CS mount.
The glass is the same as the current and old 25/4 CV, which IMHO is stunningly great for the price. The new ZI 25/2.8 is said to be better, but it does not come in a Nikon S mount.
I have the 25/4 in both LTM and S mounts and love them. You mentioned that “distortion and flare resistance” were important. The LTM version on a Bessa L is my carry everywhere kit. One camera, one lens and I’ve become a very happy camper. The CV is very flare resistant, one of the best I’ve ever experienced. When I compare it to my Nikkor 24/2.8 (F mount), the CV distorts very little. My F Nikkor loves to make football heads out of everyone. I used it for years in high school and after, like the lens for it’s sharpness and such, but hate the distortion. When I go it I was shocked at how low the distortion was. The CV gives me everything, sharpness, low distortion, small and fine contrast. Unlike the LTM version, the S version is RF coupled and works great on my S2.
B2 (;->
As Vince and others have said, take a look at the CV 25/4. I would up that to say take a STRONG look at the 25/4 in CS mount.
The glass is the same as the current and old 25/4 CV, which IMHO is stunningly great for the price. The new ZI 25/2.8 is said to be better, but it does not come in a Nikon S mount.
I have the 25/4 in both LTM and S mounts and love them. You mentioned that “distortion and flare resistance” were important. The LTM version on a Bessa L is my carry everywhere kit. One camera, one lens and I’ve become a very happy camper. The CV is very flare resistant, one of the best I’ve ever experienced. When I compare it to my Nikkor 24/2.8 (F mount), the CV distorts very little. My F Nikkor loves to make football heads out of everyone. I used it for years in high school and after, like the lens for it’s sharpness and such, but hate the distortion. When I go it I was shocked at how low the distortion was. The CV gives me everything, sharpness, low distortion, small and fine contrast. Unlike the LTM version, the S version is RF coupled and works great on my S2.
B2 (;->
migtex
Don't eXchange Freedom!
Well, looks that after the 21 and 28.. I better get a CV 25 too! Rats!
x-ray
Veteran
The 25 cv is a really fine lens in S mount. I'm very pleased with mine.
Here's a few shots taken with the CV 25/4 in Nikon S mount. It's a great lens
goliathus
Well-known
Thanks a lot guys, I appreciate your sample pics and comments.
Currently I have 5cm, 3.5cm and next one would be a CV 2.5cm
Also I'd like to use Nikkor 2.5cm. (If I get a chance), that one looks really compact !
Here are two biding ended 2.5cm~
2.5cm on ebay 1
2.5cm on ebay 2
Currently I have 5cm, 3.5cm and next one would be a CV 2.5cm
Also I'd like to use Nikkor 2.5cm. (If I get a chance), that one looks really compact !
Here are two biding ended 2.5cm~
2.5cm on ebay 1
2.5cm on ebay 2
David Murphy
Veteran
I am impressed by all these photos, but particularly the Biogon which is much better than it has a right to be considering the relative state of optical technology then and now.
migtex
Don't eXchange Freedom!
JonR
Well-known
I have only tested one of those lenses, the CV 21 mm which I think is great - very sharp even wide open and creating very good colours at least on Fuiji Reala which is what I primarily use. The only big drawback is that when used on my S2 you need the extra viewfinder which adds complexity - so unfortunately it stays home too often!
/jon
/jon
migtex
Don't eXchange Freedom!
Hmm JonR, don't!
Sometimes I just put it on and "guess" more or less based on the 50 camera view.
If it fit 50 view.. than it fit the 21 for sure... well sometimes you get surprises on the sides.. but never leave it at home..... IMHO of course
Hint : The View you get with only One eye open is similar to the 21mm angle of view.... hope it helps
Sometimes I just put it on and "guess" more or less based on the 50 camera view.
If it fit 50 view.. than it fit the 21 for sure... well sometimes you get surprises on the sides.. but never leave it at home..... IMHO of course
Hint : The View you get with only One eye open is similar to the 21mm angle of view.... hope it helps
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migtex said:As usual Jon-San is right. The CV 25 is great.
Now, what is that Singapur Cosina/Voightlander dealer site name.....? Chii something...
Hi Miguel, great to see you posting again
Your photos show us how good the CV 21/4 is! The only solution is to have both :bang:
How about your CV 28/3.5? Can you post some sample shots?
Jon
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
I have the 21/4.5 Biogon and the 21/4 VC and for a while I had the 25/$ nikkor.
The 21 Biogon is one of the classic lenses and it holds up even today. resolution and lack of distorion is as good as you will ever need. However, if you shoot color it is lower contrast than the modern lenses (not necessarily bad as some of the "over-coated" modern lenses gives an artifical look). It is also an ergonomical night mare- the aperture and distance scale is engraved with minute lettering and usually black on chrome. Try to read that in bright light!
The 21/4 VC S mount is a modern lens design and that shows in the higher contrast, It is also more compact than the Biogon 21/4,5 and weighs considerably less. Performance is the same as the LTM or P mount 21/4 - which means just about as good as it gets! I unloaded several Leica 21's once I got the VC 21 as the loss of 1 stop was not a problem for me and I could not see much if any difference between the Leica's and the VC 21. I did keep my 21/3,4 Super Angulon and the Biogon 21/4,5 more for sentimental reasons (both have travelled a long way with me over the decades) If I need the extra speed (I rarely do} I have a ZM 21/2.8.
The 25/4 Nikkor is a truly compact lens with a atrange aperture control. However it is VERY flare prone and way to pricey for the performance you get. The 25f4 VC is vastly better. I have multiple 25's in VC and ZM mount and the VC 25 is one of the truly astounding performers of all times. The now "defunct" Snap Shot Skopar with its click stop focussing is still a favourite for shooting on the streets. The 25/4 S-mount added the precision of "long throw" focussing whilst retaining the quality of the lens. A couple of month ago I got the P-mount Skopar (coupled M mount), same formula with the added feature of more secure close focussing.
The trick is to lay your hands on these lenses before they become "collectibles", The production has ceased and once the stock is gone, prices will go up as the "late comers" start chasing them.
Interesting alternative to the 25 Nikkor is the pre-war tessar 28f8. It is extremely compact, uncoated and uncoupled and stops down to f32 (looks like a pin-hole lens). Very sharp and a great "wave around and shoot lens". Less flare than the 25/4 Nikkor but not immune to it. Truly vintage look to black/white negatives too!
The 21 Biogon is one of the classic lenses and it holds up even today. resolution and lack of distorion is as good as you will ever need. However, if you shoot color it is lower contrast than the modern lenses (not necessarily bad as some of the "over-coated" modern lenses gives an artifical look). It is also an ergonomical night mare- the aperture and distance scale is engraved with minute lettering and usually black on chrome. Try to read that in bright light!
The 21/4 VC S mount is a modern lens design and that shows in the higher contrast, It is also more compact than the Biogon 21/4,5 and weighs considerably less. Performance is the same as the LTM or P mount 21/4 - which means just about as good as it gets! I unloaded several Leica 21's once I got the VC 21 as the loss of 1 stop was not a problem for me and I could not see much if any difference between the Leica's and the VC 21. I did keep my 21/3,4 Super Angulon and the Biogon 21/4,5 more for sentimental reasons (both have travelled a long way with me over the decades) If I need the extra speed (I rarely do} I have a ZM 21/2.8.
The 25/4 Nikkor is a truly compact lens with a atrange aperture control. However it is VERY flare prone and way to pricey for the performance you get. The 25f4 VC is vastly better. I have multiple 25's in VC and ZM mount and the VC 25 is one of the truly astounding performers of all times. The now "defunct" Snap Shot Skopar with its click stop focussing is still a favourite for shooting on the streets. The 25/4 S-mount added the precision of "long throw" focussing whilst retaining the quality of the lens. A couple of month ago I got the P-mount Skopar (coupled M mount), same formula with the added feature of more secure close focussing.
The trick is to lay your hands on these lenses before they become "collectibles", The production has ceased and once the stock is gone, prices will go up as the "late comers" start chasing them.
Interesting alternative to the 25 Nikkor is the pre-war tessar 28f8. It is extremely compact, uncoated and uncoupled and stops down to f32 (looks like a pin-hole lens). Very sharp and a great "wave around and shoot lens". Less flare than the 25/4 Nikkor but not immune to it. Truly vintage look to black/white negatives too!