john neal
fallor ergo sum
It's me again, sorry 
It looks like all my Electros are going to need stripping right back to the bare components. Conversation with an ex-Yashica service guy and an ex-employee lead me to the conclusion that there is oxidised grease in the shutter leaf bearings.
Apparently Ronsonol or IPA will not shift this without mechanical assistance (ie a brush, cloth, etc), so removing the lens elements and swilling with my favourite solvent will not work
Anyhoo, after the cleaning, comes reassembly and I have no idea what sort of grease or oil to use to avoid later migration and resulting shutter failure.
Can anyone help me out here?
It looks like all my Electros are going to need stripping right back to the bare components. Conversation with an ex-Yashica service guy and an ex-employee lead me to the conclusion that there is oxidised grease in the shutter leaf bearings.
Apparently Ronsonol or IPA will not shift this without mechanical assistance (ie a brush, cloth, etc), so removing the lens elements and swilling with my favourite solvent will not work
Anyhoo, after the cleaning, comes reassembly and I have no idea what sort of grease or oil to use to avoid later migration and resulting shutter failure.
Can anyone help me out here?
Jon Goodman
Well-known
Hi, John.
You can use any of several good light oils...particularly anything suitable for watch use. Be careful, however. There is some overkill in this area, and there is one alternative which is very inexpensive...in fact, I've used this stuff in watches for several years. Spray about an inch to inch and a half of fresh WD-40 into a small jar (like a pimiento jar). Let this sit for a week or so. You will see two layers. The paraffin and other trash is heavy and will sink to the bottom. What remains on top is a fine light oil, very suitable for camera use. You can siphon it off, or you can simply not disturb the jar as you use it. Apply it sparingly. How is a good way to do that? Here is one way: Find a quill pen or a quill pen point...the style you dip into the inkwell. It will be built so that there is a slit and an open area which acts as a reservoir. Use that to apply oil, and you'll never get too much at once. If you don't have one of those, stick a sewing needle into a bamboo skewer--fat end first so the sharp end faces out. Dip the needle into the oil about an inch, and what runs to the tip should be plenty.
Jon
You can use any of several good light oils...particularly anything suitable for watch use. Be careful, however. There is some overkill in this area, and there is one alternative which is very inexpensive...in fact, I've used this stuff in watches for several years. Spray about an inch to inch and a half of fresh WD-40 into a small jar (like a pimiento jar). Let this sit for a week or so. You will see two layers. The paraffin and other trash is heavy and will sink to the bottom. What remains on top is a fine light oil, very suitable for camera use. You can siphon it off, or you can simply not disturb the jar as you use it. Apply it sparingly. How is a good way to do that? Here is one way: Find a quill pen or a quill pen point...the style you dip into the inkwell. It will be built so that there is a slit and an open area which acts as a reservoir. Use that to apply oil, and you'll never get too much at once. If you don't have one of those, stick a sewing needle into a bamboo skewer--fat end first so the sharp end faces out. Dip the needle into the oil about an inch, and what runs to the tip should be plenty.
Jon
Fedzilla_Bob
man with cat
Jon Goodman said:
I have heard that WD40 is a polarizing oil and that it is highly likely to migrate to places that you don't want the oil in or on. So avoid using near the lens or viewfinder.
Micro-Tools sells oils designed for use in cameras. One of which is Superlube which comes in a light oil and it has a needle point dispenser. Another version is a grease which others have used to lubricate helicoid threads on lenses. It doesn't become fluid until it reaches a very high temperature. So it is not very likely to migrate to the lens surfaces.
I have used Mobil Synthetic grease on my Industar 22 helicoid threads. This grease is very thick and also withstands high temperatures.
If you have not already done so give Micro_Tools a look -
http://www.micro-tools.com/Merchant2/lubricants.htm
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john neal
fallor ergo sum
Thanks guys - I have used WD40 on toy cameras, but never bothered to wait for the gravitational split.
I think I will check out Micro Tools - they are just soo expensive!
Anyway, I have to get the damn thing dismantled first, and that is proving to be a real pain!
I think I will check out Micro Tools - they are just soo expensive!
Anyway, I have to get the damn thing dismantled first, and that is proving to be a real pain!
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
I have noticed that silicone spray is very good for lubricating gears, rubbing parts, etc where there's no danger of migration onto glass. It's very fine, fat-free, dust repellent, water resistant, can be applied accurately with the pipe-headed spray. Resists down to 50 deg C and up to 100 or such. Made wonders with the stiff rangefinder coupling of my ikonta, as well as with a few leaf shutters (seiko, compur) after cleaning. Has a nice smell too, and if you rub the leather (bellows, camera covering) with it it gets fresh supple and water resistant
It's cool.
Any long-time experience with this stuff? I took the risk of using it without knowing what might happen in say 10 years with it
It's cool.
Any long-time experience with this stuff? I took the risk of using it without knowing what might happen in say 10 years with it
Kim Coxon
Moderator
Hi John,
If I need oil, I use a very pure light oil that I got from a model shop. A small bottle only cost about £1.50 and would last for ages. It is certainly cheaper than Micro tools. You can also get some very fine synthetic grease in such shops. The only thing to avoid is "electrolube" which has the same migration qualities as WD40.
Kim
If I need oil, I use a very pure light oil that I got from a model shop. A small bottle only cost about £1.50 and would last for ages. It is certainly cheaper than Micro tools. You can also get some very fine synthetic grease in such shops. The only thing to avoid is "electrolube" which has the same migration qualities as WD40.
Kim
K
Kin Lau
Guest
Given Jon Goodman's reputation as a camera repairman, that's probably a very good substitute/option, to use WD-40, but only after having let it "sit" for a while, and not to "spray" it into the camera. Ordering from Micro-Tools in Canada can be inefficient if it's not a large order, and you get dinged for "customs" clearance.
Fedzilla_Bob
man with cat
Hi- I didn't mean to step on John's toes at all. I know that he is one of the good guys.
Just had a visceral reaction to the thought of WD40 near a precious Yashinon lens.
Just had a visceral reaction to the thought of WD40 near a precious Yashinon lens.
john neal
fallor ergo sum
I would hate to spray something as pernicious as WD40 inside any camera of any worth. I did use electrolube on the sliding switch in a GSN, but had to strip it down a couple of weeks later to clear out the migrated overspray.
I used to have a small bottle of watchmaker's oil, but it only lasted me 15 years <sob!>.
I used to have a small bottle of watchmaker's oil, but it only lasted me 15 years <sob!>.
K
Kin Lau
Guest
Hi Bob,
I was wary of Jon mentioning WD40 until I saw how he was using it.
I would never spray WD40 near a camera either, but the "home distillery" version of it sounds very interesting (that's a great tip btw Jon). WD40 can be found nearly everywhere, whereas the options can be quite hard to find.
I ordered my lense spanners from Micro-Tools, and shipping + custom's clearance almost doubled the price, so I'm not very inclined to be buying just a little bottle of oil.
Your Mobil Syn Grease suggestion sounds good too. I'm going to try it with my 500mm MTO mirror first. I do have a few other lenses that could use a lube job.
I was wary of Jon mentioning WD40 until I saw how he was using it.
I would never spray WD40 near a camera either, but the "home distillery" version of it sounds very interesting (that's a great tip btw Jon). WD40 can be found nearly everywhere, whereas the options can be quite hard to find.
I ordered my lense spanners from Micro-Tools, and shipping + custom's clearance almost doubled the price, so I'm not very inclined to be buying just a little bottle of oil.
Your Mobil Syn Grease suggestion sounds good too. I'm going to try it with my 500mm MTO mirror first. I do have a few other lenses that could use a lube job.
Kim Coxon
Moderator
Hi,
For those in the UK, this might be of interest. http://www.mainlytrains.com/acatalog/gen-adh-lubricantsblackeningfluids.html As well as a very fine oil and grease, the blackening fluids are quite useful. They chemically blacken the metal which produces a hard wearing patina which doesn't wear off in the same way as paint. they don't add any thickness to the material like paint does either.
Kim
For those in the UK, this might be of interest. http://www.mainlytrains.com/acatalog/gen-adh-lubricantsblackeningfluids.html As well as a very fine oil and grease, the blackening fluids are quite useful. They chemically blacken the metal which produces a hard wearing patina which doesn't wear off in the same way as paint. they don't add any thickness to the material like paint does either.
Kim
Fedzilla_Bob
man with cat
I was wondering what was available in the US and located this source...
Turn down your speakers first though they have audio-
http://www.black-oxide.com/
Turn down your speakers first though they have audio-
http://www.black-oxide.com/
kabkos
Established
I have been using Coleman camp fuel (naphtha, same stuff as Rosinol but way cheaper) in an ultrasonic cleaner (Harborfreight item for $25). I put the shutter into a container, add enough Coleman camp fuel to cover the shutter, place it into the ultrasonic cleaner tub and then fill the ultrasonic cleanter tub with water. The ultrasonic cleaner has a 3 minute timer and I usually cock and trip the shutter a few times during the first and last 3 minute timed sessions (I also operate the diaphragm several times). Typically three 3 minute sessions is adequate. Then I remove the shutter and blow it dry with 30# air pressure (a small air paint brush pump works well and is cheap). Next I remove the cocking ring and slowspeed governor (as well as the selftimer if there is one) and I lubricate them. I use Nyoil or watchmakers oil for lubrication on bearing/pivots and use a very lite coating of grease on the cocking ring, and shutter operating lever (this is what rides in the D slot of the shutter body). If I have to tear the shutter activating ring out, I polish it with dry moly powder (the moly molecularly bonds with the surface of the ring and provides a very hard and low friction surface). For application of oils, I put a very small flat tip on a needle (this is similar to what watchmaker oilers are). The only problem that I have experienced with using the ultrasonic cleaner is that it can loosen some of the small screws, so always check screw tightness as a last step.
karl
karl
Fedzilla_Bob
man with cat
Kin Lau said:
Hi Kin-
One other suggestion. There is a teflon (PTFE I think) grease called Tri Flow, it comes in a grease form in a tube container. There is also a spray. It, Like Superlube is designed to stay put. It can be found at bicycle shops.
Also great for squeaky car doors.