Scrambler
Well-known
All portraits are iconic.
peterm1
Veteran
I agree. While I was the one who first pointed out the technical flaws I also said that they "can be forgiven" because the images work as an appeal to the emotions. Which is kind of the attitude I have always adopted in photography - only break the "rules" when breaking the rules works. And for me making images that "speak" emotionally is always what I strive for. Never for technical perfection. Unless of course technical perfection happens to be what delivers the goods in that instance.
lawrence
Veteran
Thanks, that clears it up.
lukitas
second hand noob
Maybe, but no.
The boy with the tires is iconic in many ways : the tires, the grease, the workshop, and the body of a young greek god : this is the essence of the american labourer-aristocrat, the guy who builds his own car, isn't afraid of dirtying his hands, smart as a whistle and disturbingly sexy, without looking as if he tries to be. This is an Icon of a age long gone, when men were men and physical labour was a vocation...
And the Marilyn photo is Iconic in the same way. Yes it is Marilyn, but it is also the quintessential american girl, with that oh so endearing touch of fragility.
Which gives this coupling of images a discombobulatingly sexist twist : the butchest boy, the sweetest girl... images of a shape of masculinity and femininity that feel reassuringly comfortable, but it makes me wonder what today's iconic boy and girl would look like. Would they even be american?
cheers
Paulbe
Well-known
I'm almost CERTAIN a real tire fellow would have worn a shirt whilst carrying tires---just an observation...
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
To me both of these images are representations of the way we (as people) want to be ... though the reality is generally the opposite. Not many ripped young men out there these days, aside from the gym junkies and their personal trainers, and few females will ever look this 'naturally' beautiful.
Selling the dream in other words.
Selling the dream in other words.
dof
Fiat Lux
Yes! What we have here is an iconic image of manliness in the 20th century, as imagined from the early part of the century, but updated for the latter. (It would appear that we can forgive the 80's-ness of the hair.)
I'd add that Herb Ritts, whether knowingly or not, did a nod to August Sander with his image of Fred. This adds to its "iconic" impact, no doubt.
kbg32
neo-romanticist
Precisely correct. That is what fashion photography is all about - selling the dream.
Pioneer
Veteran
I am not sure it was possible to take a bad photograph with Marilyn in it. She was absolutely perfect at portraying the beautiful and vulnerable girl next door. And she always seemed to know exactly where the camera was.
I would not be ashamed of having taken the first one either, but it really has a far more posed and commercial air to it.
I would not be ashamed of having taken the first one either, but it really has a far more posed and commercial air to it.
Trooper
Well-known
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Having a good look at these pics I don't really rate them as outstanding. MM was obviously pretty difficult to take a bad photo of and the beefcake shot is rather contrived ... that said I can see why they were so successful because they do represent the much lauded fantasy of the all American boy and girl as mentioned previously.
The images themselves would sell quite well on late, late night TV ... in amongst the cooking gadgets, weight loss regimes and exercise equipment.
The images themselves would sell quite well on late, late night TV ... in amongst the cooking gadgets, weight loss regimes and exercise equipment.
Particular
a.k.a. CNNY, disassembler
And an 'evolved' tire fellow would have rolled the tires instead of lifting them. At least, that is what I would have done.
Particular
a.k.a. CNNY, disassembler
August Sander spent most of his life taking portraits of working people from all walks of life. He pretty much owns the category.
In my opinion many of his portraits are a degree more iconic than these two, in spite of not having any famous people in them.
Trooper
Well-known
Damn, I feel so stupid now that you mention it...I worked in a warehouse that dealt with 55 gallon oil drums, and we had a method of canting and rolling. Those barrels are about a quarter-ton, and can be placed within an inch when you learn the method and practice.
Trooper
Well-known
Not my intent at all by coupling these two-there was no conscious thought to the selection. But very interesting points that I hope we answer.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Lukitas,
Easily the best analysis here. The first two paragraphs state the bleedin' obvious, yes, but (a) some people are apparently unable to see the bleedin' obvious and (b) few could summarize it so concisely and cogently.
The last paragraph is less obvious, but even better stated.
Cheers,
R.
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
Those images are interesting mostly for American culture and basically to its masses. Photography is a broad concept, and there are buyers for everything, and lots of dream buyers as Keith said... To me, both of them are quite different: the one with the boy is a tasteless exaggeration, and the second one, even if it's not a great photograph either, at least it reminds me of a girl that had charm, but on the net and in the streets or in books I see more interesting photographs every day. And better common/famous people portraits too, both by known and unknown photographers...
Cheers,
Juan
Cheers,
Juan
tunalegs
Pretended Artist
Maybe neither are particularly good.
DominikDUK
Well-known
These images are great Iconic if you want why. The Subject looks you into the eye but not the deer in headlight look but a tough greek god guy with great eyes who embodies every male and females dream and the photo of Marilyn shows a vunerable Marylin even her nude shots don't show her as vunerable and approachable as this shot. Both these photos would also work were they not shot as celebrity/model shot. In fact the first photo failed as fashion advertisment. One shouldn't forget the double entendres of the first shot it is pure sex every muscle is visible a huge zipper that scream masculinity. As some said these photos embody masculinity and feminity and that what makes them iconic even today. I also believe that the modern version of these themes would look very much like these two photographs after all the first is the embodiments of male hotness since the ancient greeks. And the vunerable girl (damsel in distress) type isn't young either. Both these photographs talk to the viewer and pull them in. As for those that have some distain to fashion photography a fashion photograph tells just as much about a time and place as any Street photo sometimes a lot more.
NY_Dan
Well-known
These photos are good because they're superb executions of a particular stylistic approach. Whether one prefers the subject looking into lens, candid, shallow focus, a certain color palette, sexiness, rustic, vintage, contrasty, grainy -- whatever -- it doesn't matter -- these photos were taken by capable photographers who achieved the result they and their clients wanted. Herb Ritts was a famous photographer who put together a fine body of work -- a photo of his has greater monetary value because of its' lineage. Some of his photos may also appeal to certain male buyers, too. Of course MM was an icon, so...