What mf RF folder should I get?

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68degrees

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My dad has a Retina IIc which is beautiful. I love everything about it. But I also love medium format.

I was wondering, can anyone here help guide me to what medium format RF is most like the Retina IIc?

Im looking for a folder because I love how flat the Retina gets. I love the quiet leaf shutter and most of all the coupled rangefinder with the two images that merge into one.

I prefer no meter because I prefer to use a separate meter or go by feel.

The Retina IIc has a couple interchangeable lenses. A wide and a tele. I like that too, especially a wide.

So if anybody knows a camera that matches what Im searching for please reply.

Ive looked at the Zeiss Ikonta. I think the later ones from the 60s are what Im looking for but Im not sure and I want to know of any other brands. Did kodak made a mf rangefinder like the Retina?

Thanks Everyone.

Gary
 
Ikonta was also my first idea. There is also the old model Mamiya 6. If you want something more recent you could go for a Bessa/Fuji 667. And the Makina Plaubel 67 or 67W (but the price...).

If you really want interchangable lenses then the Plaubel II and III are an option.

Didn't check if the formats are the same as the Retina.
 
The requirement for interchangeable lenses virtually eliminates 99% of "classic cameras". Only pre-1960 examples that I can think of right now are the KW Pilot (dual format 6x6 and 6x4.5 if you have the mask, no RF but SLR, no wide angle, and only one unit known of the long focus lens) and the Plaubel Makina already mentioned (6x9, one wide two normals two teles and one "variable focus lens", coupled RF only for normals and uncoupled RF for all other lenses). I own both, none of them are perfect but I love both systems.

Modern names go from the Praktisix/Pentacon Six to the Mamiya 7II, with plenty of options in between.

Talking about folders, my recommendation is usually the same: shop by shape, not by name. Or, if you do, factor the price of a CLA when buying.

Have you already decided the format of your new camera? 6x4.5, 6x6, 6x7, 6x9? Could dual format be a plus? You want just a coincident RF, or a coupled RF as in your Retina is a must? Which is your budget?
 
68degrees said:
The Retina IIc has a couple interchangeable lenses. A wide and a tele. I like that too, especially a wide.

Gary
Click to expand...

There are very few mf folders that fit the requirement for interchangeable lenses...
- baby linhof (supertechica style) normal came w/ 3 lenses and rf cam"d
- 2x3 Crown
- basically the baby version of LF folders w/ roll film backs.
These tend to be pretty big and heavy compare to a classic mf folder

The closest I can think of from Kodak originated from the Kodak German Nagel factory such as the Recomar. These were plate cameras. The 9x12 had bayonet lens mount. But were designed to be used w/ one lens. If u go to apug forum site and check out the plate camera threads, there have been people who have created their own bayonet adaptions to use other lenses. There are 9x12 plate to 120 roll film adapters out there, but they are getting hard to find.

Kodak also made a 6x9 rf but this was 620 based. Cannot remember model number right now.

The mf I like are which have rf
6x6
- Zeiss super ikonta iii or iv w/ tessar
- Zeiss super ikonta w/ tessar 80f2.8
- Fuji gf670 in 6x6 mode
6x9
- voigtlander Bessa II

Non-rf
- voightlander Perkeo II or iii w/ skopar

Gary
 
The Iskra in the classies is worth a look--the seller has more invested in it than it is selling for; it's based on the Agfa Isolette, I believe.

Jurgen Kreckel in Pennsylvania http://www.certo6.com/ specializes in folding cams, especially MF RF; a number of RFFers have reported mixed results with his restoration work, but he is committed to keeping these cameras in circulation. I have a Bessa RF 6x9 from him, and an Ikonta 520/16 (6x6) from KEH Outlet, both with Tessars, but they are scale focus cameras (which I like, because the mechanics are relatively simple--no CRF to go kaflooey, no VF glass to go uselessly dim. The Ikonta is wonderful and compact, almost small as a Retina, and lighter too; it has given me splendid results with Delta 400 rated 100, like this: http://roberthilllong.tumblr.com/image/34381019763.

Let's hear what others say. But jnoir's questions are good--can you be more specific/committed to what you'd like to have in your first MF folder (which may help you limit the overall number you end up getting, ha ha).
 
68degrees said:
My dad has a Retina IIc which is beautiful. I love everything about it. But I also love medium format.

I was wondering, can anyone here help guide me to what medium format RF is most like the Retina IIc? ...
Click to expand...

As mentioned, interchangeable lenses on a compact MF folder is very unusual. If you want compact, stick with a fixed lens.

I had Zeiss Ikon Super Ikonta A and B cameras some years ago. Lovely cameras but somewhat bulky for the type, and they tend to be pricey.

I'd recommend the Voigtländer Perkeo II with Color Skopar 80mm f/3.5 lens. That's a scale focus model, there's another model (I think it's the III) with a rangefinder. It's smaller and lighter than the Super Ikonta B was yet seems just as nicely made, and the lens is on par. These run $150 to $350 depending on condition. I paid on the high end for mine and it is in perfect working order, and looks great too.

The Bessa II is very nice too, but it's a lot larger than the Perkeo II/III given its 6x9cm format.

G
 
This is really great I appreciate all your responses! Thanks a lot.

Ok to narrow it down. A coupled rangefinder with two images that merge is a must. The format I like is 6x6. I can live without the interchangeable lenses. I like small and flat like the retina. It doesnt have to be lightweight. I like metal. With a 4 element lens and accurate shutter. I dont need 500th of a second but nice. I like slow speeds to 1 second. I can count longer myself in b mode. must have B and T mode. I dont need flash. Budget is < 300.
Also, I would like the shutter to cock when the film is advanced and take 220 if possiible. (24pics) but not a must.

much appreciated.
Gary
 
The Kodak-Nagel-Werk did produce a lots medium format cameras, but the only one that is closet to what you are looking for would be the Regent II.

It is a roll film folder that uses 620 film on a 6x9cm format. It has a coupled rangefinder and uses Schneider Xenar f:3,5/10,5 cm lens. The lens is not interchangable. The camera was introduced in 1939 and only lasted a year in production.

The camera is considered a rare collectable, so it's not really what you are looking for

From the same plant, but a little less rare would be a Kodak Duo Series II camera. A roll film camera camera using 620 film but on a 4,5x6 cm format. Lenses range from a Kodak Anastigmat 4,5/7,5 cm to a Zeiss Tessar either f:4,5 or 3,5 both 7,5 cm.

The Kodak Duo is easily found on ebay, but is expensive.

Good luck on your camera quest!
 
Another nod to the Perkeo ll, or for a cheaper but still good quality folder, a Zeiss Netter.
Forget interchangeable lenses in a vintage MF folder.

Edit: sorry, just read about your need for RF focusing.
 
68degrees said:
This is really great I appreciate all your responses! Thanks a lot.

Ok to narrow it down. A coupled rangefinder with two images that merge is a must. The format I like is 6x6. I can live without the interchangeable lenses. I like small and flat like the retina. It doesnt have to be lightweight. I like metal. With a 4 element lens and accurate shutter. I dont need 500th of a second but nice. I like slow speeds to 1 second. I can count longer myself in b mode. must have B and T mode. I dont need flash. Budget is < 300.
Also, I would like the shutter to cock when the film is advanced and take 220 if possiible. (24pics) but not a must.

much appreciated.
Gary
Click to expand...

Hmm.. Tall order. I'd forget 220, and the auto shutter cocking is a nicety that is hard to find. For size and quality, the Perkeo IIIe (the one with the rf) is hard to beat and you can find them at close to your price range in good condition. Certo6.com lists one available at the moment for $385. Better to pay a little extra and get one that doesn't need a service.

I have a Voigtländer Bessa III as well .. It's everything you want but costs in the $1600-2300 range and is much much larger than the Perkeo. Superb camera tho.
 
I highly recommend an Iskra 6x6. has a 75/3.5 Industar lens which is pretty good and a fantastic rangefinder patch on the viewfinder, I really liked it. and it's not expensive.
 
Godfrey said:
I have a Voigtländer Bessa III as well .. It's everything you want but costs in the $1600-2300 range and is much much larger than the Perkeo. Superb camera tho.
Click to expand...

just checked it out. Its incredible! Is it made in Germany or china? Just curious. Its amazing though! I don't yet have that kind of loot to drop on a camera.
 
umcelinho said:
I highly recommend an Iskra 6x6. has a 75/3.5 Industar lens which is pretty good and a fantastic rangefinder patch on the viewfinder, I really liked it. and it's not expensive.
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Just checked this one out. Moscow. Mockba! 1961 to 63. They all seem to be in my price range. Paying extra is a good idea for one already gone through though.
 
If your looking at the mockba's the 4 seems to be a better user than the 5 and the iskra is the best of their mf folders. If you could stand scale focus I'd recommend the perkeo 1 or 2 great build quality and fit in your pants pocket folded. I'm rather fond of my perkeo thought I don't use it as often as it deserves.
 
jnoir said:
You want just a coincident RF, or a coupled RF as in your Retina is a must?
Click to expand...

Is a coincident rangefinder the kind where the two images come together as one? I guess it wouldnt have to be coupled as long as I had the rangefinder and could transfer exactly the values to the focus ring.
 
it'sawhat? said:
If your looking at the mockba's the 4 seems to be a better user than the 5 and the iskra is the best of their mf folders. If you could stand scale focus I'd recommend the perkeo 1 or 2 great build quality and fit in your pants pocket folded. I'm rather fond of my perkeo thought I don't use it as often as it deserves.
Click to expand...

plus 1.The 4 is considered a better camera than the 5.The 5 has weaker struts.I have a 4 purchased from Ukraine, it is a joy to use - though I would have really preferred an Iskra. You could always buy a selection:)
 
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