pevelg
Well-known
I was getting ready to buy some photo paper for my photography class and became suddenly overwhelmed by the choices. What should I get? I am leaning towards fiber based as my book says its "better."
I need B&W and will be printing from 6x7 negatives off my Mamiya 7ii. Paper needs to be 8x10.
dfoo
Well-known
RC paper is much simpler to use. Also many photo classes use an automated processor for developing the paper which only work with RC papers.
oftheherd
Veteran
Does your book say what fiber based is better for? I think it gives better results, but many of the resin based give good results as well. Resin definately washes faster and dries better without a press. That might be better for school unless the school lab has a good print dryer.
I would probably be looking more at my usual negatives and deciding what contrast I needed/wanted.
I would probably be looking more at my usual negatives and deciding what contrast I needed/wanted.
degruyl
Just this guy, you know?
I just realized: you don't mention whether you want the answer for color or black and white. I'll answer for black and white, since I do not print color optically.
First, you should check with the professor. They know what they are teaching, so...
I would use Ilford Multigrade IV RC for a first class. Fiber is better, but it is a royal pain to get flat, and takes at least twice as long to wet process by hand. It cannot be used in a "print processor" as far as I know.
If you need to use graded paper, try Oriental or Ilford graded papers. I would just go with variable contrast paper if it were me. There are just so many nice things you can do with the ability to change the contrast for different areas in the print. Plus, you only need one box of paper.
First, you should check with the professor. They know what they are teaching, so...
I would use Ilford Multigrade IV RC for a first class. Fiber is better, but it is a royal pain to get flat, and takes at least twice as long to wet process by hand. It cannot be used in a "print processor" as far as I know.
If you need to use graded paper, try Oriental or Ilford graded papers. I would just go with variable contrast paper if it were me. There are just so many nice things you can do with the ability to change the contrast for different areas in the print. Plus, you only need one box of paper.
braver
Well-known
In my book, if you want easy, skip the RC and go digital. Although a lot can be said for RC, compared side by side, I decided to go for the best if I'm going to put in the effort of wet printing.
I use Ilford MGIV, which is great. Recently bought Kentmere, which is a lot cheaper and has a bit colder tone. Will try the Adox MCC next for larger prints, as it's supposed to be the best. Lots of pro printers for the great use Ilford, so it's a good place to start. I vote multi-contrast, but have not compared.
I use Ilford MGIV, which is great. Recently bought Kentmere, which is a lot cheaper and has a bit colder tone. Will try the Adox MCC next for larger prints, as it's supposed to be the best. Lots of pro printers for the great use Ilford, so it's a good place to start. I vote multi-contrast, but have not compared.
martin s
Well-known
MGIV RC, no alternative, really.
martin
martin
bwidjaja
Warung Photo
When I took the class at a local college, the instructor suggested us to get both the RC and FB papers. RC for practice and FB for the quality once we get the process down.
pevelg
Well-known
Thanks for all the advice. I'll grab a 25 sheet box of RC first to get my feet wet and then dive into fiber based once I get things down.
nikon_sam
Shooter of Film...
When I took the class at a local college, the instructor suggested us to get both the RC and FB papers. RC for practice and FB for the quality once we get the process down.
I can agree with this...
I'll also add that I like using Ilford Multigrade (Pearl or Glossy) for quick printing...Ilford Fiber Based for the more long-term git-it framed show print...
pevelg
Well-known
RC paper is much simpler to use. Also many photo classes use an automated processor for developing the paper which only work with RC papers.
We do everything by hand... Learn the REAL way!
oftheheard said:Does your book say what fiber based is better for? I think it gives better results, but many of the resin based give good results as well. Resin definately washes faster and dries better without a press. That might be better for school unless the school lab has a good print dryer.
The book basically states the fiber based gives more better looking results and that it is used for galleries and etc. Basically the benefits mention here by others.
degruyl said:I just realized: you don't mention whether you want the answer for color or black and white. I'll answer for black and white, since I do not print color optically.
First, you should check with the professor. They know what they are teaching, so...
I would use Ilford Multigrade IV RC for a first class. Fiber is better, but it is a royal pain to get flat, and takes at least twice as long to wet process by hand. It cannot be used in a "print processor" as far as I know.
If you need to use graded paper, try Oriental or Ilford graded papers. I would just go with variable contrast paper if it were me. There are just so many nice things you can do with the ability to change the contrast for different areas in the print. Plus, you only need one box of paper.
Thanks. I'll go ahead and get the Ilford Multigrade IV RC to start this week and hopefully move up to FB next week.
Anybody use the WarmTone Ilford papers?
oftheherd
Veteran
...
The book basically states the fiber based gives more better looking results and that it is used for galleries and etc. Basically the benefits mention here by others.
...
I certainly agree. I was just pointing out that resin might be more convenient to use at the beginning, and still give acceptable results. But if you have the equipment to use fiber, that is the way I would go.
dfoo
Well-known
We do everything by hand... Learn the REAL way!![]()
I've never used a print processor, but I'd certainly like to have access to one!
nikon_sam
Shooter of Film...
Anybody use the WarmTone Ilford papers?
I do... but mostly it's the image that dictates if I use Warm or Cool Tone paper...
Chris101
summicronia
The real nice thing about RC prints is that they will be flat and dry by the time you go home from class. Fiber is a more 'artsy' material, and everything (exposing, developing, washing, and drying) takes longer. However, the feel of a double weight, fiber print is magical in your hand.
Ronald M
Veteran
RC is easier to process by far. Jury is out on lifespan.
Since you are a student, work with RC until you learn to make a good print. At that point, you can switch to FB paper.
I have a few RC black and white that were properly processed, fixed and washed, that have been up 25+ years with no ill effects. If you fix in a community darkroom with a fix of unknown strength which is what there is by necessity, and washed improperly, they it may start turning yellow after time.
On the other hand, the requirement of FB are more critical and longer and can not be carried out in a one hour session, and the print will deteriorate even faster than a RC one given similar treatment.
Like I said, RC, until you have a darkroom where you can control the process.
I have some 50 year old FB prints that look as new. The process is painful and long and not worth it for student prints.
Since you are a student, work with RC until you learn to make a good print. At that point, you can switch to FB paper.
I have a few RC black and white that were properly processed, fixed and washed, that have been up 25+ years with no ill effects. If you fix in a community darkroom with a fix of unknown strength which is what there is by necessity, and washed improperly, they it may start turning yellow after time.
On the other hand, the requirement of FB are more critical and longer and can not be carried out in a one hour session, and the print will deteriorate even faster than a RC one given similar treatment.
Like I said, RC, until you have a darkroom where you can control the process.
I have some 50 year old FB prints that look as new. The process is painful and long and not worth it for student prints.
MartinP
Veteran
I'd suggest getting a box (or more) of 100 10x8 Kentmere or Foma glossy RC paper (ie. almost half the price of Ilford and 95% as attractive). The big reason is useability for learning. With an afternoon in a manual darkroom you can have a dozen or more RC prints ready to look at and use - and precisely zero fibre-prints, due to the washing and drying time required. Making contacts on fibre paper is something that you can most sensibly redo when/if you will print on the same paper, but for class purposes go for second-level RC everytime. Also, the Kentmere and Foma really is actually visually pretty attractive anyway!
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
I would like to caution you against FB snobbery
Try both types of paper and *then* make up your own conclusion.
For me, experience and skill that was build out of familiarity of one type plays a much bigger role in the quality and consistency of the prints.
Yes, I have seen good FB prints from the "masters" (Ansel Adams, for example), and yes I've seen excellent RC prints. So what? good prints are good prints regardless the paper type.
So as far as I'm concerned, there is nothing really special about FB other than it absorbs more chemical, wasteful to wash and a pain to dry.
Why do the books and photo-teachers say that FB is superior? because it sells more at the galleries. Why does it sell more? because galleries and agents take advantage of the perpetuated myth by the books and the teachers.
A properly toned *modern*-RC prints will have the same or longer lifespan than FB, why? because it's silver that oxidize not the paper. And the resin coating may actually preserve your print better against seeping moisture from cracks in the frame.
If you want to talk about texture, go all the way and do Platinum-palladium prints with handmade paper. Now that's real texture.
PS: I stay away from glossy RC papers, I think they gave RC a bad name due to their slick plasticky finish. Handle a matte/velvet/pearl RC paper and you'll see the difference between an FB and RC diminishes quickly.
Try both types of paper and *then* make up your own conclusion.
For me, experience and skill that was build out of familiarity of one type plays a much bigger role in the quality and consistency of the prints.
Yes, I have seen good FB prints from the "masters" (Ansel Adams, for example), and yes I've seen excellent RC prints. So what? good prints are good prints regardless the paper type.
So as far as I'm concerned, there is nothing really special about FB other than it absorbs more chemical, wasteful to wash and a pain to dry.
Why do the books and photo-teachers say that FB is superior? because it sells more at the galleries. Why does it sell more? because galleries and agents take advantage of the perpetuated myth by the books and the teachers.
A properly toned *modern*-RC prints will have the same or longer lifespan than FB, why? because it's silver that oxidize not the paper. And the resin coating may actually preserve your print better against seeping moisture from cracks in the frame.
If you want to talk about texture, go all the way and do Platinum-palladium prints with handmade paper. Now that's real texture.
PS: I stay away from glossy RC papers, I think they gave RC a bad name due to their slick plasticky finish. Handle a matte/velvet/pearl RC paper and you'll see the difference between an FB and RC diminishes quickly.
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pevelg
Well-known
Just bought a box of 100x Ilford Multigrade IV RC, Pearl. This should be fun. I'll post some results after class Saturday. I have six hours to kill during class, so I should get several prints done. Plus, the lab stays open until 5pm, so thats an extra three hours I can tack on.
Once I get the process down, I'll order a bunch of different papers, 25 sheet packs, and find what I like/prefer.
Thanks to every one for the advice.
Once I get the process down, I'll order a bunch of different papers, 25 sheet packs, and find what I like/prefer.
Thanks to every one for the advice.
FrankS
Registered User
Just bought a box of 100x Ilford Multigrade IV RC, Pearl. This should be fun. I'll post some results after class Saturday. I have six hours to kill during class, so I should get several prints done. Plus, the lab stays open until 5pm, so thats an extra three hours I can tack on.
Once I get the process down, I'll order a bunch of different papers, 25 sheet packs, and find what I like/prefer.
Thanks to every one for the advice.
You got lots of good advice and made a good decision. Since you are learning to print, don't select materials that make it more difficult. Once you have learned to print, FB is best IMO for final display prints of your most important images. I once made a head to head comparison, printing the same negative during the same printing session, and was surprised in a highly positive way, in the image and print qualities of the FB paper. More than 95% of my printing is on RC paper however, since it is so much easier for when doing all of the non-critical, non-final display prints.
BTW, in my experience it is not FB snobbery. I really did see a huge difference. It may just be "different" and not "better" but I sure liked that difference a whole lot more.
Chris101
summicronia
I prefer the look (and even more, the feel) of fiber prints compared with RC. I understand what Will means though. When you mount and frame a print, it is difficult to determine what kind of paper was used to make it. Because of the time required (it takes me about 3 times longer to make a fiber print compared with an RC print) it does not make sense to print fiber paper every time. But I do use fiber paper - especially matte finish Ilford Multigrade, that paper is ubiquitous because it's that good - for anything that involves exposing the actual surface of the print. Or for a stack of 11x14 'snap shots' that I hand to visitors. They usually like the tactile experience of heavy fiber paper.
So yeah. I'm a fiber snob. Like Frank, I have a LOT of RC prints. Digital prints too. :angel:
So yeah. I'm a fiber snob. Like Frank, I have a LOT of RC prints. Digital prints too. :angel:
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