clcolucci58
Established
I had a post about Leica camera's a while back. I have never used a RF camera before and would like to try one either 35mm or 120. What would be a good RF camera to start off.
Regards
clc
Regards
clc
What RF camera first?
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farlymac
PF McFarland
I've always had a soft spot for the Ricoh 300/500/519 cameras. If you want lens interchangeability, low cost of ownership, but still have that Leica experience, then FSU cameras (Former Soviet Union, or FED and Zorki) are the way to go.
PF
PF
Scrambler
Well-known
It's a common question - do some searches. You will get pretty much the same advice.
You need to decide on your budget, whether you want a fixed or interchangeable lens and also something of your "style" - are you after a "classic" user experience or something a straightforward as possible. And this might also be influenced by what you have used before - have you used film? What size? What camera/s?
People giving advice will all have made these decisions for themselves and may give you advice based on their answers, not yours. And someone will write "save spending money on anything else, buy a Leica M2/3/4/6/9..."
If you really don't know what you want, get anything cheapish and then decide what you don't like, sell it and try again.
KyleCharles
Vagabond
For myself anyway, the right place to start was the 135 format (35mm) fixed lens rangefinders. My personal overall favorite of the bunch is the Olympus 35 SP, but I also really like the Konica auto S3 (for the small size) and the Minolta Hi-Matic 7s (for the lens).
A good place to start your research is in the "Classic Camera Info" section on the Cameraquest website. http://cameraquest.com/classics.htm
If you scroll about 2/3 of the way down this page, you will see the "Compact 35's" section. It has a nice overview as well as individual write ups on the major players in this niche of cameras.
A good place to start your research is in the "Classic Camera Info" section on the Cameraquest website. http://cameraquest.com/classics.htm
If you scroll about 2/3 of the way down this page, you will see the "Compact 35's" section. It has a nice overview as well as individual write ups on the major players in this niche of cameras.
dct
perpetual amateur
I concur. You cannot lose much money starting with a fixed lens RF to test the experience. I did it the same way. Enough threads on that.
clcolucci58
Established
I shoot only film and own a Mamiya 645 and Olympus OM-1 and OM-10 in 35mm
redisburning
Well-known
do you want a Leica?
my honest advice is to purchase one if you want it and save yourself the inbetween. just spend the cash, suck it up, deal with it, etc.
if you don't want that, I really like Nikon. an S2 and a 5cm f2 should run you about 500 USD, I think that's a good price for what you get.
my honest advice is to purchase one if you want it and save yourself the inbetween. just spend the cash, suck it up, deal with it, etc.
if you don't want that, I really like Nikon. an S2 and a 5cm f2 should run you about 500 USD, I think that's a good price for what you get.
Scrambler
Well-known
If you just want to try the RF experience, the fixed lens RFs use in-lens leaf shutters that are controlled on the lens so similar in ergonomics to the OM cameras.
There were some nice MF RF folders from the 50's. I have an Ensign Autorange 220 and the Zeiss equivalents look very nice indeed. Old MF lenses turn out surprisingly good images.
While now a little out of date, the viewfinder comparison at Cameraquest is helpful to see what the interchangable-lens 35mm RFs are like compared. Not all FSU viewfinders are created equal so read beyond cameraquest if you want info about them
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi,
You want a Leica? Then buy from a dealer; it won't mean "no problems" but they usually offer a guarantee and so you'll probably get it sorted out and working properly without too much expense. Or buy from a non dealer and take a chance but be warned they cost serious money to repair and a lot of people think they can repair them at home and end up selling them in an even worse condition.
Or look at any of the dozens of fixed lens RF's made years ago and assume they need a repair and budget for it.
There's the FED and Zorki range of retro cameras. Many like them but - like 30's Leicas - they often need a bit of TLC from an expert. They can be, however, an excellent and inexpensive introduction to RF's; especially the FED 2.
I'd go for the Olympus range of "Olympus 35" variations, the Olympus XA or any of the others. Be warned that a lot of people selling think cameras are either box, SLR or RF's. So RF's include a lot of non RF cameras like the Olympus Trip 35, Konica C35 V and so on. So do a bit of research.
If rich try the Olympus-35 SP (the gold standard imo), if poor/sensible the Ricoh's 500G or 500 ME or Konica C35 (delightful) but allow for a disappointment followed by a (cheap-ish) repair...
There's an interesting article here:-
http://www.japancamerahunter.com/2011/10/rangefinder-cameras-what-are-your-options/
And beware, there's a Konica C35 that's not a RF but AF. And the same for all the others, so do a bit of research first. Expect mercury batteries and the associated problems to crop up; more research is the answer.
Have fun and remember; you are tottering at the top of a long and slippery slope.
Regards, David
You want a Leica? Then buy from a dealer; it won't mean "no problems" but they usually offer a guarantee and so you'll probably get it sorted out and working properly without too much expense. Or buy from a non dealer and take a chance but be warned they cost serious money to repair and a lot of people think they can repair them at home and end up selling them in an even worse condition.
Or look at any of the dozens of fixed lens RF's made years ago and assume they need a repair and budget for it.
There's the FED and Zorki range of retro cameras. Many like them but - like 30's Leicas - they often need a bit of TLC from an expert. They can be, however, an excellent and inexpensive introduction to RF's; especially the FED 2.
I'd go for the Olympus range of "Olympus 35" variations, the Olympus XA or any of the others. Be warned that a lot of people selling think cameras are either box, SLR or RF's. So RF's include a lot of non RF cameras like the Olympus Trip 35, Konica C35 V and so on. So do a bit of research.
If rich try the Olympus-35 SP (the gold standard imo), if poor/sensible the Ricoh's 500G or 500 ME or Konica C35 (delightful) but allow for a disappointment followed by a (cheap-ish) repair...
There's an interesting article here:-
http://www.japancamerahunter.com/2011/10/rangefinder-cameras-what-are-your-options/
And beware, there's a Konica C35 that's not a RF but AF. And the same for all the others, so do a bit of research first. Expect mercury batteries and the associated problems to crop up; more research is the answer.
Have fun and remember; you are tottering at the top of a long and slippery slope.
Regards, David
Wulfthari
Well-known
As other people stated, if you want a Leica just save money for a Leica, if you want good first rangefinder with a 35 mm and something close to a 120 mm you can choose a relatively modern Zorki 4K or 6 with a Jupiter 12 and a 11 plus relative turret or a Canon 7 and a 35 F2 and RF135.
In any case they are old cameras and lenses so you have to buy them from reputable sellers.
In any case they are old cameras and lenses so you have to buy them from reputable sellers.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
I'd go one further: DON'T confuse a fixed lens RF with a good interchangeable-lens RF, ideally, a Leica. It's a bit like comparing (say) pork with veal. Both can be very good, but one won't give you much idea of what the other is like.
Cheers,
R.
Cheers,
R.
Rodchenko
Olympian
That's true enough. But many people prefer pork* 😉
* Actually, I don't; I'm vegetarian.
* Actually, I don't; I'm vegetarian.
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi,
It was a fixed lens CRF that convinced me I ought to have a Leica. The Olympus-35 SP takes a lot of beating. Especially when you come to paying for one, or repairs. And the lens is just brilliant. Look at the prints or slides first and then the specification and try to match it...
Regards, David
It was a fixed lens CRF that convinced me I ought to have a Leica. The Olympus-35 SP takes a lot of beating. Especially when you come to paying for one, or repairs. And the lens is just brilliant. Look at the prints or slides first and then the specification and try to match it...
Regards, David
Jack Conrad
Well-known
Konica IIIA is sort of the pork tenderloins of fixed lens RF's. 😀
Jack Conrad
Well-known
Voigtlander Bessa's are sort of the chuck steak of inter-changeable lens RF's.
Not bad, mind you. Perhaps a little tougher than a sirloin, but still tasty.
Not bad, mind you. Perhaps a little tougher than a sirloin, but still tasty.
jsrockit
Moderator
This one:
ZeissFan
Veteran
Start inexpensively. Perhaps, one of the smaller offerings from the 1970s. I would look for a camera that has been serviced, or - at the least - has new foam seals.
Nearly every camera from the 1970s or earlier will need some level of service, if it hasn't already been performed.
Other choices: There are many German rangefinders from the 1960s and earlier that are available from Zeiss Ikon, Voigtlander, Agfa, Welti, Balda, Braun and others.
Konica had three early rangefinders: Konica I, II and III, with the I being the simplest and the III the best. All of the lenses on them are good with the III having the best lens.
There is also the Kodak Signet 35, a sweet little rangefinder. Probably will need to be serviced.
The Carl Zeiss Jena Werra can be an excellent camera. Small, interchangeable lenses, great build.
As always, your budget is the first thing to consider. What you shoot now offers no indication of what you would like or how much you want/are able to spend.
If you want a Leica, get a Leica. If you're simply testing the waters, try something less expensive and go from there.
Nearly every camera from the 1970s or earlier will need some level of service, if it hasn't already been performed.
Other choices: There are many German rangefinders from the 1960s and earlier that are available from Zeiss Ikon, Voigtlander, Agfa, Welti, Balda, Braun and others.
Konica had three early rangefinders: Konica I, II and III, with the I being the simplest and the III the best. All of the lenses on them are good with the III having the best lens.
There is also the Kodak Signet 35, a sweet little rangefinder. Probably will need to be serviced.
The Carl Zeiss Jena Werra can be an excellent camera. Small, interchangeable lenses, great build.
As always, your budget is the first thing to consider. What you shoot now offers no indication of what you would like or how much you want/are able to spend.
If you want a Leica, get a Leica. If you're simply testing the waters, try something less expensive and go from there.
mfogiel
Veteran
Think a moment about FL you use. Rangefinders are primarily a 28/35/50mm affair and they excel at street and travel photography. For me, a street camera HAS to have AE and HAS to have a good VF. This brings the list down to Hexar RF, Bessa R2/3/4, Zeiss Ikon and Leica M7. The Bessas are the cheapest to start out.
Steve Bellayr
Veteran
Are you serious enough about photography to spend 2k? IMHO the M6 Classic with a Summicron V3 is your best starter camera and lens. You can probably start out cheaper with a non-metered M and an a Summitar, which are excellent but not IMHO starter cameras. The M6 w/Summicron will provide you with enough challenges to last a while and will also provide excellent images.
gb hill
Veteran
You didn't mention anything about budget. If budget isn't a problem then get a Leica or Bessa. Don't even think about an FSU. You are taking a chance on it's condition & the view finder is dim compared to a Bessa, Leica, or Zeiss Ikon. A FSU will not give you a good positive RF experience. If budget is a hindrance then get a Canonet QL17GIII. Stay away from ebay. Wait for a camera to pop up here in the classifieds by a reputable member.
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