What RF camera first?

[furbs]

Stay away from ebay. Wait for a camera to pop up here in the classifieds by a reputable member.

I lucked out on eBay with a good deal on a freshly serviced M4 for my first Leica, but would not advise others to risk it. Stick to dealers and the RFF classifieds for a body and definitely check out the classifieds for lenses. I got my 35 Summilux and 50/2 LTM Nikkor from RFF'ers and would do so again in a heartbeat.

 

[Wulfthari]

Don't even think about an FSU. You are taking a chance on it's condition & the view finder is dim compared to a Bessa, Leica, or Zeiss Ikon. A FSU will not give you a good positive RF experience.

Sure? Out of curiosity, how many FSU camera do you have? Regarding the "chance" of the condition of a camera you always take a chance when you buy online, that might be a 2000 $/£ rangefinder or a 20$/£, that's the reason why it's always a good idea to buy from a reputable seller.

All IMO, of course.

 

[gb hill]

Sure? Out of curiosity, how many FSU camera do you have? Regarding the "chance" of the condition of a camera you always take a chance when you buy online, that might be a 2000 $/£ rangefinder or a 20$/£, that's the reason why it's always a good idea to buy from a reputable seller.

All IMO, of course.

I have 3 FSU cameras. A Zorki 2s which is in good working condition but the split vf isn't so great. A Fed 5b I bought new in the box years ago for $15.00. It's awkward as well as heavy to carry around but I mainly bought it for the I-61 lens, & I have a Fed2 which needs repair. I also have a Bessa R which is much superior, to any fsu camera. The VF is brilliant & it's nice to have ttl metering. For the cost of FSU cameras now a days a Bessa is a very good buy. I've been on RFF a long time now & have read too many bad luck stories of people buying fsu cameras on ebay. I think the RFF classifieds are the best place to buy a used camera unless it's a reputable repair person or someone like Bellemy @ Japan Camera Hunter.

 

[tempest68]

This one:

I'd use that! I'm sure you'd get into some interesting conversations with people on the street. And it might be perfect for "street photography" as a lot of people might not take you seriously while shooting with it and think its just a toy camera.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Some .. going on here.
Bessa R costs $200. Without lens. It will take $300 35 lens, J-12 is not fitting well into it.
FED-2 will take in collapsible I-22, which is very good lens in terms of IQ and cost.
Last year, I purchased FED-2 with I26m and case for $60, shipping included.
it was working perfectly.
Now my family FED-2 is back from its very first repair, it is made in sixties and I used it in eighties. Was the only camera, lens I had.
It is nice camera to hold and operate.
I have Bessa R as well. It is good tool for sure, but FED-2 gives some classic feel. Shutter sound included.
Buying FSU on e-bay has no difference with buying of Leica. Need it works for sure, buy from reputable dealer who check camera before sale. Some FSU e-bay sellers do sell cameras after CLA as well.

 

[farlymac]

This one:

I always wonder how long it took them to get the proper pink chrome color.

PF

 

[Pioneer]

I didn't do it this way but this is my advice for what it is worth. Buy an M6 and equip it with any inexpensive Cosina Voigtlander lens; a Color Skopar 35/2.5 is a terrific starter lens.

Go shoot film for a few months. I you find you like it you will be hooked forever. If you don't, you will not lose a lot of money, if any, when you resell it. Think of it like renting to own.

Why buy a Leica immediately? Because if you don't you will always wonder whether you should have.

I prefer my Zeiss Ikon, but if I had not already used Leica M cameras I would not have known why.

 

[clcolucci58]

Thanks everyone and yes I really do want a Leica but sounds like a Bessa would be a good option as well.
Regards
Clc

 

[redisburning]

Thanks everyone and yes I really do want a Leica but sounds like a Bessa would be a good option as well.
Regards
Clc

save yourself time, money and frustration and just get one then.

maybe you can find someone locally who has one to try it out, but having had a few RF cameras and just a lot of 35mm gear in general you're going to get what you want eventually.

 

[alphonse2501]

Thanks everyone and yes I really do want a Leica but sounds like a Bessa would be a good option as well.
Regards
Clc

Send a letter to Youxin Ye, he will find out the possible one body for your budget.

My M3 DS is great even I get M5 later.

 

[David Hughes]

I have 3 FSU cameras. A Zorki 2s which is in good working condition but the split vf isn't so great. A Fed 5b I bought new in the box years ago for $15.00. It's awkward as well as heavy to carry around but I mainly bought it for the I-61 lens, & I have a Fed2 which needs repair. I also have a Bessa R which is much superior, to any fsu camera. The VF is brilliant & it's nice to have ttl metering. For the cost of FSU cameras now a days a Bessa is a very good buy. I've been on RFF a long time now & have read too many bad luck stories of people buying fsu cameras on ebay. I think the RFF classifieds are the best place to buy a used camera unless it's a reputable repair person or someone like Bellemy @ Japan Camera Hunter.

Hi,

I've been on these forums for a while and have read a lot of hard luck stories about all the great cameras. The trouble is that a dud Leica, Contax, etc cost serious money to repair and it's quite possible that the parts aren't available. So some will refuse to touch them on the grounds (legitimate imo) that no one will pay for a camera to be stripped down and then re-assembled and still not working...

OTOH, a FED 2 with (say) a J-8 or Industar in front of it is a seriously good camera. They are still cheap and Oleg can sort out any problems without ruining the owner. I've bought FED 1's for under 10 USD (ebay) and FED 2 bodies for the same price (ebay again) and Jupiter-8's in the flea market for 5 pounds.

They all worked and when the FED 1 had eventually to go to Oleg it came back with new blinds and was a joy to use. in fact I think it feels and performs just a well as my Leica II which inspired it. But it's cost me a fraction of the price (that's buying and sorting out with just the Elmar).

Expanding this theme, I wonder what any thing better would be needed for, we mostly seem to do small prints these days and no one bothers with tripods. So why chase after complete and utter perfection when it's not really needed? I manage to cope with life using a second-hand, family Ford car and can't see the sense in buying a Rolls-Royce for my sort of lifestyle...

Regards, David

 

[Wulfthari]

I have 3 FSU cameras. A Zorki 2s which is in good working condition but the split vf isn't so great. A Fed 5b I bought new in the box years ago for $15.00. It's awkward as well as heavy to carry around but I mainly bought it for the I-61 lens, & I have a Fed2 which needs repair. I also have a Bessa R which is much superior, to any fsu camera. The VF is brilliant & it's nice to have ttl metering. For the cost of FSU cameras now a days a Bessa is a very good buy. I've been on RFF a long time now & have read too many bad luck stories of people buying fsu cameras on ebay. I think the RFF classifieds are the best place to buy a used camera unless it's a reputable repair person or someone like Bellemy @ Japan Camera Hunter.

I'm not a great fan of Leica clones like the FED2 and Zorki 2, I prefer the more "evolved" models like the Zorki 4K and the 6, if found in excellent conditions they are great cameras, you can get them for 50$ and add a turret so you can use 28 mm (Orion 15), 35 mm (Jupiter 12), 85 mm (Jupiter 9) and 135 (Jupiter 11), all excellent lenses.

Of course we are talking about old cameras without TTL of the Leica M3 and M4 class, and I can live with that.

Oh, if you're interested in viewfinders that are actually BETTER than Leicas you might try the Leningrad, very advanced (yet delicate) camera.

 

[Roger Hicks]

. . . how many FSU camera do you have? . . .

None. And there's a good reason for this. I've had lots, Fed, Zorkii and Kiev, mostly when they were a lot newer and less knackered/gummed up than they are now. The main reasons to buy them were (1) they were cheap -- in fact I was given the last one I had (2) curiosity (3) historical interest. Most of them worked OK, with the familiar "knife through gravel" smoothness of the controls, and the results, most of the time, were OK. But I'd rather have something that's nicer to use, with a better viewfinder.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Wulfthari]

None. And there's a good reason for this. I've had lots, Fed, Zorkii and Kiev, mostly when they were a lot newer and less knackered/gummed up than they are now. The main reasons to buy them were (1) they were cheap -- in fact I was given the last one I had (2) curiosity (3) historical interest. Most of them worked OK, with the familiar "knife through gravel" smoothness of the controls, and the results, most of the time, were OK. But I'd rather have something that's nicer to use, with a better viewfinder.

Cheers,

R.

Actually the question wasn't for you.😛

However to each his own, I'm happy with my M3 and I'm looking forward to buying a M4 and I'm also happy with my old Russian cameras, I find that if they are properly serviced they are relatively smooth, in my experience the difference in many FSU cameras today is that they are considered cheap and if they have something wrong they are considered junk, if this happens to a Leica the owner is ready to pay hundreds to service, CLA and repair the camera.


P.S. My first rangefinder was my Zorki 6 and I recommend it as first camera, especially for the people who don't want to invest a lot of money on a hobby that perhaps they'll find out not for them.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

I'm selling my IIf and Z-6 to replace it arrived yesterday.
Here is the article how after two years M-6 craps out and while it has to go for repairs older $22 paid for Z-6 does the job well.
http://doingphoto.wordpress.com/2012/02/02/using-zorki-6-after-leica-photo-downshifting-impressions/

 

[gb hill]

I agree with much of what you guys are saying but the question of the OP is "What is a good RF camera for me?" I just don't feel that a FSU camera is a good start. My 1st RF was a Canonet QL17GIII & IMO it's a better camera than any of the fsu cameras. I still enjoy using mine.

 

[Scrambler]

Matching RF ro user

Matching RF ro user

I agree with much of what you guys are saying but the question of the OP is "What is a good RF camera for me?" I just don't feel that a FSU camera is a good start. My 1st RF was a Canonet QL17GIII & IMO it's a better camera than any of the fsu cameras. I still enjoy using mine.

These sorts of threads get 4 different answers:
1) Leica M
2) Bessa
3) FSU LTM with combined VF/RF
4) Fixed-lens RF

I think most people answer based on their own experience: the camera that got THEM into RF. But it may not be the camera that will interest THIS person.

Which is why I think BUDGET is the start. If you can throw $10000 at the question, you should get a Leica M digital and one or two nice lenses. Buy second hand lenses and expect to get 90% of your money back.

If $2000 sounds more reasonable, get a second hand metered film Leica and some older second hand lenses. This should see you getting 95% back when you sell - these cameras and lenses are not devaluing quickly.

If you can scrape $1000, get an unmetered Leica M and second hand Voigtlander lens/s, or Canon/Nikon etc lenses from the 60's. Again return should be good if you change your mind and sell. And Upgrade path can be gradual. A Bessa is also an option at this price point.

For the "real world" where people want to drop at most the price of a digital P&S on finding out whether it's interesting enough to sink bigger dollars, the FSU vs fixed-lens debate hots up. I personally enjoy being able to change lenses. I would NOT have been an interested in rangefinders without that. So for ME the FSU was better. BUT many others are happy with just one lens for their Leica. So for THEM the fixed-lens RF would be better.

The Bessa fits in between the bargain-bin cameras and the Leicas.

Which is cheaper to try? If you DONT like the cameras, probably an unmetered film M and Leica lenses. You should get back most of what you spent.

If you DO like the camera, though, you might be up for an upgrade later. But at least you can sell your first body/lens.

If you buy an FSU camera you can probably consider that you have done your money. But the cost ($100-200) is not that high. If you like RF but want to upgrade, you can still do this incrementally: buy an M mount body, continue with your FSU lenses, etc.

So current budget, upgrade path, future budget all play a part.

Within that, what experience you are after makes a difference. And since this is a "heart" call, a choice of artistic tools, this matters a lot. And cannot really be predicted.

 

[Scrambler]

PS, I have spent enough money on cameras & lenses to have bought a digital M, certainly a good second hand one and possibly a new one. But I have not owned a Leica M and I won't until I think it's reasonable to get a digital M. FOR ME the Leica film bodies other than the M7 don't offer what I'm after (AE in this case) and other M-mount cameras do. Would I have been better to have just got an M7 and be done with it? No. I spread that spending over 4 years. I have 2 AE M-mount bodies. To have bought an M7 and lenses would have meant either a) saving for 4 years for something I didn't know I would like or b) borrowing money to buy something I didn't know I would like. Neither would have been smart. Even getting my present "kit" up front would have been foolish. It's a lot of money to have sunk in stuff. "Losing" money but doing so gradually worked better for me. But if the money was available, going for Leica gear means you can sell at little or no loss if you don't like it.

 

[David Hughes]

Hi,

The problem is that any camera can be an absolute disaster and that's usually the fault of the previous owner. (I'm assuming we are not talking Leica M9.) So my standard advice is based on what's possible after the thing has been checked and sorted out.

I've had that well know cult camera the Olympus-35 SP and had to junk it. Way past repair and the white metal going the way they all do. Ditto a IIIc and a Summar and Summitar.

I got the FED 1 out of curiosity as I couldn't believe what I heard about it. I liked it and eventually it went to Oleg because experience in other technical fields tells me that nothing mechanical can be neglected that long and still be OK. I reckon 7,8 or 9 years for oil to migrate from the load points. And quicker still if the camera has been left in a car to be boiled.

Experience also covers Leicas that have failed and been repaired. So I can make a reasonable comparison between FED 1's and Leica II's. They are identical once sorted out properly apart from the invoice... But Leica owners are happy to spend money on repairs and FED owners aren't. But (2) I seldom hear abuse of Leica and the way the cameras are made but everyone seems to blame the factories in the USSR. As if QC can be assessed after 50, 60 or 70 years.

Regards, David

 

[nhchen]

Maybe I'm crazy but my first RF was a Leica M3, love the camera...then realised, oh there are all these other RF out there also! Not that I've ever regretted my purchase