What should I look for in a Graflex Crown Graphic?

Mudman

Mudman

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I have a chance to get one with a normal schneider lens and a wide angle rodenstock as well as a 6x9 roll film back, manual and I think 10 rolls of film or so for $200. What should I look for in the camera? The photos make it look in fairly good to excellent condition. I'm a newbie to large format cameras, though I know I need to check into the bellows. Rangefinder is sidemounted, if that makes a difference.

Thanks,
Eric
 
I assume that is a 4x5 Crown Graphic. The bellows and shutter conditions are the most important. Almost anything else can be adjusted. The Crown, IIRC, has no focal plane shutter to give problems.
 
Yes it is a 4x5 What should i look for in the shutter? Just run them at the different speeds and see if they sound good?
 
Yes, that is what I would do. I think you can make a fair assessment of most Compur-type shutters by watching the leaves and listening to the sound. Open the aperture wide open to watch the shutter action. Set the shutter to "time" to hold it open and move the aperture blades through the range to see if they move smoothly and form a uniform opening. The rangefinder can be checked against the scale on the bed or against an image on the ground glass.
 
Make sure to look for any damage that could have resulted from closing the camera without retracting the front standard all the way. I'm not sure about the Crown graphic, but Pacemakers and some other cameras can be screwed up this way, especially by owners (and "tire kickers") that don't know how to properly open/close the camera.
 
if possible take the camera into a dark room with a flash light and check the bellows for pinholes ( these can be fixed with electric tape ). the slow speeds are usually the first to go with the shutter . you may have to drop the bed to use the wide angle . besides that these are sturdy camera's and $200.00 is a pretty good deal with all you are getting . i would go for it and fix and any small problems later .
 
That's a really good idea. Here's the ad.
"Graflex Crown Graphic with 6x9 roll film back (120), Schneider lens, wide rodenstock lens, film, rangefinder, viewfinder, ground glass, Linhof handle - use on a tripod or hand held. fantastic view camera set up with modern sharp glass and the convience of using roll film"
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I also did a little googling, and the seller is a fairly well estabilshed photographer in the area, and it turns out that he knows a good chunk of people that I do as well. I'm inclide to believe its on the up and up.
 
Mudman said:
I have a chance to get one with a normal schneider lens and a wide angle rodenstock as well as a 6x9 roll film back, manual and I think 10 rolls of film or so for $200. What should I look for in the camera? The photos make it look in fairly good to excellent condition. I'm a newbie to large format cameras, though I know I need to check into the bellows. Rangefinder is sidemounted, if that makes a difference.

Thanks,
Eric
Click to expand...

(1) Check that it is not in a defunct format. 4x5 sheet film is widely available, but things like 2.25x3.25 sheet film and 3.25x4.25 sheet film are not. This one is really important -- a lot of the Speed and Crown Graphics sold are NOT in 4x5 format and the sellers often won't mention the format in the ad.
(2) Check for accurate shutter speeds (mostly look for oil on the blades). Not a big deal usually, but it is nice to know whether you need to budget for a CLA if you can't do it yourslef.
(3) Another important one: check to make sure you have a good bellows. A new set of replacement bellows could cost as much as the camera.
(4) if you are planning to use it, check that the Kalart rangefinder is connected and functional. Many are not.
(5) You are getting a Crown Graphic instead of a Speed Graphic, so you won't have to do this one: with Speed Graphics, always check the shutter curtains.
 
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It's probably a decent working system but bear in mind that that is not a "4x5" Crown (i think it is a 2x3 from the pix), the Schneider lens is from the 60s (these get hazy sometimes) and the Rodenstock is remounted in Prontor copy camera shutter, and the Graflex knob wind backs are not as sharp as the lever wind versions. So don't pay too much... $150 is reasonable. Otherwise you could just get a nice Koni Omega or a 6x9 Folder and be better off with less bulk.

The Linhof grip is probably the most valuable part -- they can sell for $150 alone ;-P
 
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$200? Grab and run like h-e-double-toothpicks... ;)

That's a 2x3 Pacemaker Speed Graphic. The glass alone is worth more than $200. The things to check have already been mentioned, but realistically if there are problems they are all easily fixable. If you don't like the camera, the grip & the lenses will show you a nice profit.

MUCH more info here: http://www.graflex.org

I have a similar setup shooting 6x7 and it's a delightful thing to use. Grab & run!

William
 
From the photograph it does not look like a 4x5 it looks more like a 2x3. At $200 as long as the film back is in good shape it would be a nice medium format setup.

2x3 holders and film can still be found but using sheet film that small could be a pain to work with.
 
Frank Petronio said:
It's probably a decent working system but bear in mind that that is not a "4x5" Crown (i think it is a 2x3 from the pix), the Schneider lens is from the 60s (these get hazy sometimes) and the Rodenstock is remounted in Prontor copy camera shutter, and the Graflex knob wind backs are not as sharp as the lever wind versions. So don't pay too much... $150 is reasonable. Otherwise you could just get a nice Koni Omega or a 6x9 Folder and be better off with less bulk.

The Linhof grip is probably the most valuable part -- they can sell for $150 alone ;-P
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franks right it's a 2x3 . i own one and efke still makes film for it ( check b&h ). not bad camera but i would agree with franks price also .

if you are looking for a 4x5 hold off . maybe check out largeformat photography forumhttp://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=27 .

for info or camera's
 
Well I'm mainly looking for a medium format camera right now, as I can only enlarge up to 6x9, so the fact that its not a 4x5 doesn't phase me, though I would have liked it to have the ability to go that large as I do have access to a bigger enlarger. However the price looked right compared to other offerings that I've seen on the web and locally. Will standard 120 work in the camera? That was what the seller said. If I buy this, I won't be able to afford anything else for probably 6 or 7 months, so I'd like for it to be spot on. If I did eventually pick up a 4x5 graflex, would I be able to use these lenses on it?

Thanks,
Eric
 
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Yes & yes. :)
More specifically, the roll back takes standard 120 roll film as evidenced by the rolls in the pictures. The back is the older type, but will work well enough for most purposes.

As for the lenses, they will work fine, though you will need a larger lens board to mount them on for the larger camera. Depending upon the focal lengths they will probably be wide to very wide angle lenses on 4x5.

One other thing to check - see if the focal plane shutter is working. If it is, you have available a whole range of old but usually cheap great lenses mounted "in barrel" that is without a shutter. Some glorious stuff is out there if you look around.

Good luck!

William
 
I've used a Speed Graphic, which has a shutter in the back of the camera so you can use either lenses with shutters or barrel lenses without shutters, which may be less expensive. Both the Crown and the Speed are great for closeups with the bellows extended, too.
 
120 film will drop right in that film holder

120 film will drop right in that film holder

Also, there was mention of the knob winders not being quite as good as the later lever winds. There is an exception to that perception. The knob winds were rated as not being as good as later holders for film flatness.

However, some time before switching to lever winds, the manufacturer started installing two pin rollers, one at each end of the 9cm dimension of the opening and on the camera side of the film. This greatly improved film flatness handling and is the reason the lever winds were much more attractive.

In my estimation the knob wind with the additional pin rollers is more desirable than the lever wind. My reason.... many of the lever winds have developed weak springs on the lever return, allowing the lever to flop back as much as an inch or more from the back of the holder.

I have a 4X5 back Graflex 23 (6X9) which is a knob wind and has the pin rollers. I think I've had 4 of the pin roller knob winds over the years.
 
george1956 said:
I've used a Speed Graphic, which has a shutter in the back of the camera so you can use either lenses with shutters or barrel lenses without shutters, which may be less expensive. Both the Crown and the Speed are great for closeups with the bellows extended, too.
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i am not sure it's a speed graphic looks like mine which is a crown graphic , so no focal plane shutter . the schneider lens looks like a dual focal length and will definitely cover 4x5 , not sure about the other lens .

if your interested in medium format why not consider a mamiya rb67 or a 645e . both of these camera are relativity inexpensive and can be found with ease on *bay . i think there are better choices for medium format than this camera
 
just a note the camera will take all mamiya rb67 backs and horseman backs also . if you search around you can find 2x3 sheet film holders if your so inclined .
 
well for the mamiya, price is an issue - looking on the bay, I couldn't really find anything similar to this setup for less than $400. At half the price, I'd enjoy the ability to raise and drop the bellows.
 
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