What the heck happened to used Leica prices???

It seems a lot of the old, used manual stuff is getting both harder to find and going up in price. The last three or four vintage pieces I sold went to the Far East (China and HK). But always, always use tracking numbers. It's just my experience, but whenever I haven't used a tracking #, and the item goes that direction, the parcels disappears, and, according to the buyer, is never received, necessitating a full refund. International mail, apparently, is very lousy.
 
Have you guys ended up selling stuff to people who appear to be just sending it over to China? I recently sold a few high end items to a Montreal fellow, but everything just smelled like he was exporting it back to China to resell. But, he did pay what I wanted, and only cost local shipping.

No, I am a bit tired of selling. It isn't fun any more. I do intend to liquidate over the next 10 years, but, I suspect it will be private sales through my camera groups, like RFF.
 
Roger Hicks said:
Dear Chris,

And, I suspect, film bodies to try with their new lenses. After all, if you can easily afford an M9 and a couple of new lenses, the price of a used film body is pretty trivial.

Cheers,

R.
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The same thing happened when the Nikon D70 caught on a couple of years ago. Nikon film camera prices went through the roof because people could mix and match lenses on both digital and film cameras.

I saw Nikkormat FTn's with a lens attached sell for EUR 140, that have now dropped to EUR 50 again.

Seems film M's are used as good looking lens caps by these M9 shooters!?
 
Rayt said:
Leica is following the business strategy of high end Swiss watches: limit supply so they can charge more. With new prices going through the roof used prices follow.
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I hate to say it but as much as I'd like to think positively for the sake of Leica, ie that their lens assemblers are cranking 24/7 but just can't keep up with demand, my experience as a businessman leads me to the same suspicion as yours.
 
menos said:
[snip]I have developed myself from a serious upfront buyer in Chinese shops into a shop fondler![snip]
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I hear that! When I was in Guangzhou going through that massive street of used camera gear I could not help but feel sad. None of it in dry boxes, fungus, haze, everything, yet they still wanted prices as close as made no difference to new. I was looking at a Contax II or III or whatever it was with a 50 1.5 Sonar which they lady wanted 3500 yuan for until I noticed it was a fake, then instantly she said 800! Another shop had a Ricoh GR1v for 3000 something but I noticed to my surprise the front element of the viewfinder (not the protective plastic outside but the lens element) was missing! The view was totally unclear yet he insisted that it was fine and I just didnt know how to use it.

I put a Leica 35 f2 v3 online here in China for a genuinely decent price and all I got were people fishing for it, no real interest. Even my M6 TTL went unsold on the Chinese pages. I brought it back with me to the states last year and it sold after being listed here in less than a day. For now on I will only sell my equipment on RFF.
 
Some apparently contradictory things are said here about the Chinese market.

How come they are driving the market crazy, and in the same time, you can't sell there?
Or: it doesn't seem very logical that they are selling crap at very high prices and don't buy decent gear at fair prices...

What exactly did I miss here?:confused:
 
The Age of Digital Hot Rod Cameras (Hot Roding old classics?)

The Age of Digital Hot Rod Cameras (Hot Roding old classics?)

Some day sensors will be much more common in any size you like. We may see the ability to digitize old Rolleiflexes, GSW 690's etc,,,,. The ability to detach the back of the camera and retrofit a sensor by independent manufacturers and skilled technicians for a cheaper price than buying a new camera could be common . Remember the time when a computer was a big thing and only specialists can handle it. Now you can build a complete PC by mail ordering components from Newegg.com, Ebay, etc,,,.

The point here is what we call the camera will change drastically. The "BOX" and sensor will be the norm. Lenses will be all the rage! And prices will always reflect the excellent value lenses have always offered.

Some of the mechanical masterpieces of the past may increase in value if they can be digitized cheaply.
 
sanmich said:
Some apparently contradictory things are said here about the Chinese market.

How come they are driving the market crazy, and in the same time, you can't sell there?
Or: it doesn't seem very logical that they are selling crap at very high prices and don't buy decent gear at fair prices...

What exactly did I miss here?:confused:
Click to expand...



To try and clarify some points here.

It seems they are driving the market crazy by snatching up a lot of new gear (as per my opinion) for the quickly growing mass of people here who can afford such things as high priced trinkets to show off.

As new prices are going up from the factory (illogically in Leica's case sez I) used will eventually follow suit. There are some Chinese who will take an interest in some used gear but a vast majority are not interested. There are many many online shops selling new Leica gear but hardly any selling used. On forums and other places used gear sits and sits and sits for a very long time untouched.

Used prices are greatly inflated here, and so the difference between used and new is not so far, and here there is a social stigma towards used as also meaning you are too poor to have virgin goods. One of the reasons the used car market here sucks, also a used car driven to death is often only 10-15% off the price of a new one because for some reason people here believe that if you pay high prices you are getting better stuff.

I went into one shop a few months ago, I swear there is no larger collection of Leica gear anywhere in the world. Whole display cases filled with M2's and M3's. Half frames by the dozens, special editions, at least a dozen Ein Stuck's, black paints, lenses lenses lenses, at least 30 Noctilux's both 1.0's and 1.2's. It was absolutely shocking, yet there it all sat. Sadly I got caught trying to take a photo...one of these days I will get a sneaky photo in there, you have to see it to even begin to comprehend.

Needless to say the factors of the Chinese market are pretty messy.
 
eleskin said:
Some day sensors will be much more common in any size you like. We may see the ability to digitize old Rolleiflexes, GSW 690's etc,,,,. The ability to detach the back of the camera and retrofit a sensor by independent manufacturers and skilled technicians for a cheaper price than buying a new camera could be common . Remember the time when a computer was a big thing and only specialists can handle it. Now you can build a complete PC by mail ordering components from Newegg.com, Ebay, etc,,,.

The point here is what we call the camera will change drastically. The "BOX" and sensor will be the norm. Lenses will be all the rage! And prices will always reflect the excellent value lenses have always offered.

Some of the mechanical masterpieces of the past may increase in value if they can be digitized cheaply.
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All you need is a series of custom sensors; a means of getting them into the film gate, with incredible precision; electronics to operate the sensor (think of the size of most digital cameras); new controls for ISO and the like; a way of avoiding double explosures and blanks; batteries; and a good few hours of very highly skilled labour for installation and testing, on a one-off basis rather than a production line. As far as I recall, it takes about 7-8 hours to build an M9 on a production line: I'd back at least 10-20 hours for a one-off conversion to an existing mechanical camera.

You think that's going to be CHEAP? Or indeed, of a size acceptable to most people?

Cheers,

R.
 
sanmich said:
Some apparently contradictory things are said here about the Chinese market.

How come they are driving the market crazy, and in the same time, you can't sell there?
Or: it doesn't seem very logical that they are selling crap at very high prices and don't buy decent gear at fair prices...

What exactly did I miss here?:confused:
Click to expand...

Logical or not it is the case. In the xing guang camera mall in Shanghai an old guy has a shop that is just loaded with Leica gear. He must have 40 M6's at least, tonnes of M7's and loads of lenses. Whatever you like and astronomical prices. I imagine he doesn't want to buy my stuff because he already has a tonne of gear...
 
everythings moving east. opening up to a billion more consumers, with Leica putting out 1,400 new lenses a year (or so its estimated)...you have a serious supply and demand problem (well problem if you are buying lol)
 
I posted this question in another forum. Bought a Hexar RF & confidently looked to find my 50 Summicron, to get back the one I'd foolishly sold for $600 two years ago. Ka-boom! You can't get a post 1979 anywhere for less than $1500. New they're $1995 except nobody has them at that price. Hong Kong stores on EBap have them, for up to $5000+.
My peeps tell me the demand is skyrocketing for Leica lenses because they are being gobbled up by the Sony NEX crowd & 4/3 users.
Anyway I got crazy lucky & found one for a grand. Never gonna give it up.

But it does look like a conspiracy too.
 
dfoo said:
Logical or not it is the case. In the xing guang camera mall in Shanghai an old guy has a shop that is just loaded with Leica gear. He must have 40 M6's at least, tonnes of M7's and loads of lenses. Whatever you like and astronomical prices. I imagine he doesn't want to buy my stuff because he already has a tonne of gear...
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I actually bought a few things from him before the prices jacket up extremely.
I remember, when I wanted, to buy a 28 Cron ASPH, I wanted for a long time, I slipped in his shop in the end of December 2009, to finally buy that lens, I have inquired a few days earlier.

When I came around, the price has been "adjusted" and there was simply no way, he would want to move the item instead of sitting on it, waiting for the announced Leica price increase, to take effect on new items a week later.

I often look around in his shop for the odd lens, I can't find anywhere else.
Often these days, I don't buy anything, as his prices are seriously over the top.

Last week, he had three really beaten 75 Lux samples - two v2 Canadian and one German v2.
All had mechanical issues (loose focus mount) and beaten cosmetics - no boxes, etc…

Prices started at 2800 EUR and ended at 3800 EUR for the beaten, loose German v2 :bang::bang::bang:

I bought a mint Canadian v2 with coding and box for much, much less in Germany instead.

He only buys high ticket items, as he is loaded with the cheaper stuff already. Sell a beaten M6 or used Voigtlander lens? Forget it. He will touch it for 40% of the market price - not worth to ask him.
When I bought a second hand MP for a then ok price, I had to argue for half an hour, so he would provide me a proper Leica strap for the camera :bang: He is a tough nut. It's good, his daughter stays out of the shop recently, as she was even tougher to deal with - she just refused and had that go f@#$%yo#$%sel% attitude, that I especially like with many Chinese vendors ;)

There has been a nice shop two floors down with a younger couple (tough wife with black framed glasses and nice husband to deal with).
I bought my second hand M8.2 from him and the R-D1 before - top quality, never any issues, always nice and friendly to deal with, nice real bargains as well, as my new 60 AF-D Micro-Nikkor for less than second hand price - until the day, she refused, to sell me something on my VISA card (which is a perfectly normal thing to use in every foreign country, I have been in).

That was the day, I stopped buying from them. So when Chinese don't buy second hand and foreigners can't pay in their shops (except, lugging bundles of RMB notes with them) - how do they pay their shop rent? Dirty business? I am genuinely interested - how do they make their money? I mean, Shanghai is not exactly inexpensive to make a living.

Sometimes, I really wonder, how this market works with nobody seemingly to bite on the crazy priced second hand stuff with quality really, really low in times.

@dfoo - you still in Shanghai? I like, what you do on your site a lot!
 
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Menos - I think you'll like the 75 Summilux.

I just got one about 8 months ago. Considerably cheaper than the prices you mention, but it was missing its hood. It's from the first run of German lenses. Leica put a new hood on it for $175, so I'm happy.
 
The high prices are making the purchase of a good Leica M kit too expensive for most amateur photographers now - too bad. Canon rangefinder gear is also getting a little too pricey for my taste. Fortunately there are still millions of almost unwanted good mechanical 35mm SLR film cameras and matching lenses out there which take pictures almost as well and are very cheap.
 
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