What to charge...hmmm...

[bmattock]

Never had *this* problem before, hope you can advise me. Believe me, this is a 'good' problem to have!

Last weekend, I was out shooting and noticed that our recently-redone public library was being dedicated and there was an outdoor celebration. I stopped and shot a roll of Kodak Ultra 100, which I happened to have in the camera.

I was approached by a young mother who was carrying her toddler and asked me to take a few pictures of the child and 'Barney' the dinosaur. I did, and the mom gave me her address/email/etc. I scanned the negs and emailed the results to her, and I uploaded them to the local Walmart and had them mail the prints to her. Only cost was my time and a couple of bucks to Walmart, so I told her not to worry about it when she offered to pay me.

Only problem is, she loves the prints, and now she wants me to take photos of her daughter at her grandmother's house (down the street from my house, actually) this weekend (after I get done taking wedding photos for someone else yet). She says she'll pay my fee.

But I don't know what my fee is. Or should be. I mean, we're talking about something informal here - we never discussed fees or what was reasonable. And maybe 30 to 40 minutes of my time to take the photos, at a guess.

Well, I did it now. Hoist on my own petard.

Any ideas, friends? My thanks once again for all advice!

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

PS - A few examples of last weekend's output that hooked me this small gig...

 

[Wayne R. Scott]

Bill,

What is your time worth to you? $50 an hour, $10 an hour, nothing? Cost of materials for the shoot, wear and tear on your equipment and your nerves? Time spent dropping off film to be developed, time spent selecting reprints from shoot, presentation of proofs, etc., etc. What about re-shoots after the toddler is grumpy because it is nap time and mommy wants photos taken by the strange man anyway. Then mommy is not happy 'cause little darling is not smiling in the photos and they are not as good as the first time.

Maybe you just like having your ego stroked and can absorb the costs as a learning experience to build your portfoilio, it is difficult for some one to answer this question for you. What do you want to make from this shoot?

I would figure out what my time is worth to me and material costs and then take that number times three for my creation session fee. Are you thinking about going into formal portrait photography or are you just playing with candid snap shots for the kids?


Wayne

 

[back alley]

bill, i was never a pro in the sense that i made the bulk of my income from shooting, however, there have been periods in my life when i made some very nice extra money with my cameras.
i did things in different phases it seems.
when i was first asked to do a wedding, it was friends who could not afford a pro wedding shooter.
i shot the wedding, ate the rubber chicken and handed over the film to the newlyweds.
i moved on to shooting free lance for a studio, they charged, made the big bucks but i got paid a set fee, dependent on the number of locations, but no hassle for me with customer demands etc.

i have also had a portable portrait thing, going into people homes with some lights and umbrellas etc. i also had a small studio in an 'arts' building.
i would charge a sitting fee, no matter the outcome of the shoot and they were given a price list with various sizes and fees for prints.

you need to determine costs based on your comfort level and what the area will bear.
i charged $100. for the sitting fee and my print prices were reasonable. honestly can't remember now.
it can be fun but it also has some stress as soon as you start charging.
people's expectations rise also when paying for something.
it goes from doing a favour to being a service.

joe

 

[bmattock]

Wayne & Joe:

Thanks for the comments! I don't think I am going into formal portrait photography. In fact, I'm not even sure I'm any good at it (as it that were a criteria), but I also thought, well, if people want to pay me, who am I to say no? Plus, I can always use money for more cameras/film/beer and general GAS.

I was thinking of asking for $50 for the whole thing, but not having done it before, I guess I was looking for a little reassurance that I wasn't asking the moon and all. I suppose things are all dependent on a lot of things - I didn't give that much thought before I posted!

Anyway, that's all I've come up with so far. As to whether or not it is an 'ego stroke' well yes it is. Have to admit it.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[Wayne R. Scott]

Bill,

If both you and your client are happy with $50, go for it!! I started out this way and just re-invested the money in more equipment, better light stands, reflectors, studio lights, etc. It was a slow process, but everything I have is paid for and I don't have a big Visa bill staring at me each month. It is not that I have a whole lot of equipment, but I can make do with what I have.

Good Luck!! ( I fully understand the ego stroking, believe me).

Wayne

 

[vsolanoy]

Call me a sucker, but since she's your neighbor, I would do it for the sake of someone enjoying any photos you take. Who knows, if she's appreciative enough, she may make you a treat like cookies or brownies.

I'm far from being a pro, and I like taking pictures, so I'm more than willing oblige these types of request.

I've done event photography for "free" only to be compensated (without asking) with gift certificates for dinners at some pretty nice restaurants because people are appreciative of the effort.

I also figure, if the pictures suck, I don't feel obliged to take their money - it's not my primary business. I derive pleasure from taking pictures. I've been asked to do weddings for pay and have declined -- because I realized the types of photos I would take, and their expectations would be different - I don't know how to pose people, nor do I care to learn.

If the photos are going to be used for commercial purposes, all I ask is to be given credit for the photos. Recognition beyond me, myself, I and my family I think is flattering.

A good friend of mine had a terrific philosophy regarding this -- unless photography is a primarary business, the smiles and enjoyment of what is captured is payment enough. If someone likes the photo enough to put it into a photo album or scrapbook, they may remember the deed for years to come.

 

[jlw]

I hate it when people say, "I love your pictures! How much to take some shots of ____?" because however much you say, some people will be really happy and others will think it's too much!

Sneaky gambit for dodging the bullet and doing a bit of market research at the same time: Reply, "Oh, I don't want to charge you for my time as long as my film and processing are covered. Tell you what -- whatever you think the pictures are worth, send it as a donation to the public library [or the animal shelter, or any other well-liked local charity.] Just shoot me a copy of the letter so I'll know how much we gave."

You'll discover that many people will never do it, proving that they weren't all that serious about being willing to pay for the pictures. But some people will, and this not only helps a local charity but gives you an idea of what they think your photo services are worth.

 

[back alley]

very clever & sneaky!

i like it.
joe

 

[CleverName]

Well, I did it now. Hoist on my own petard.

Way off topic here, but I had never heard this expression before and did a little research. I found this at Dictionary.com...thought it was a bit amusing.


Petard.
A small bell-shaped bomb used to breach a gate or wall.
A loud firecracker.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[French pétard, from Old French, from peter, to break wind, from pet, a breaking of wind, from Latin pditum, from neuter past participle of pdere, to break wind. See pezd- in Indo-European Roots.]
Word History: The French used pétard, “a loud discharge of intestinal gas,” for a kind of infernal engine for blasting through the gates of a city. “To be hoist by one's own petard,” a now proverbial phrase apparently originating with Shakespeare's Hamlet (around 1604) not long after the word entered English (around 1598), means “to blow oneself up with one's own bomb, be undone by one's own devices.” The French noun pet, “fart,” developed regularly from the Latin noun pditum, from the Indo-European root *pezd-, “fart.”

 

[JoeFriday]

I've been in the same situation with my real profession.. graphic design.. I'll do a little freelancing for friends, and they'll send some clients my way occasionally

since I don't make a living doing the freelancing, I find it's generally not worth my time to set up a whole fee structure.. but I wish I did.. while some people are very appreciative of your time and efforts, especially when you do it pro bono, others have no problem taking advantage of your generosity.. and I find that doing work for 'non profit' organizations is the absolute worst.. they make huge demands and get testy when you suggest that their constant changes are beyond what you were anticipating.. I doubt you'll run into that with the woman you described.. but it can easily bite you in the butt if your reputation as a 'work for food' sort of photographer spreads

I'd suggest feeling out the client's expectations and setting a fairly firm fee, based on the time involved (and materials, in the case of providing prints).. something that covers your costs, as well as twice as much time as you think you'll put in (it's ALWAYS more work than it seems).. both you and your client will be happy with that arrangement, since nobody will wonder what is 'fair'.. and if the work is more than your fee seems worth, you only have yourself to blame.. and if the fee seems to high for the final product, you can always give them a break

so just say "my standard fee is....." and make something up... then stick to it 😉

 

[Sonnar Brian]

I would be tempted to do it at cost and use the photo's to build up a portfolio. The pictures that you have posted here are quite nice, and would make any parent happy. I especially like the last shot in B&W; excellent capture. You also have a beautiful model to work with. The old rule of thumb for starting out like this in school was to do it at double the cost; one roll and print materials for the client and one set for the poor student. Student build a portfolio and gains the experience. Happy clients refer more, at increasing prices as the portfolio and experience builds. Sound reasonable?

Of course these days when I shoot, it is such a stress release that I end up donating the film and processing. Cheaper than any other therapy!

 

[GeneW]

I was thinking of asking for $50 for the whole thing, but not having done it before, I guess I was looking for a little reassurance that I wasn't asking the moon and all. I suppose things are all dependent on a lot of things - I didn't give that much thought before I posted!

Bill, you're brave to do weddings -- I've done two, they turned out well, but I don't do them anymore. Too nerve wracking...

I've been asked if I could do some shooting of some planting events for a local non-profit environmental organization that is helping 'green' the environment in public parks, schools, etc. I asked about it and it was three events they want me to cover. They'll pick up all film and development costs but asked me what I would charge as a fee. I know they don't have much spare change and I love what they're doing, so I said $150 -- $50 per event. They were happy with this and so was I. I'd probably have been there anyway, but don't tell them ...

I'm already wondering what FSUwonder I can pick up for $150 😀

Gene

 

[chmeyer]

I was thinking of asking for $50 for the whole thing, but not having done it before, I guess I was looking for a little reassurance that I wasn't asking the moon and all. I suppose things are all dependent on a lot of things - I didn't give that much thought before I posted!

Bill,
I would advise you to think about this a lot. Only you can decide what is worth you time. But there are other things to consider.
Above your material costs, which may be quite low, what happens if a rowdy toddler knocks the camera out of your hands? Will you be able to pay for the pictures and a camera repair with the $50 quote? Will this neighbor/ client who is nice now pick up the tab later?
Being nice is one thing, but being taken advantage of is one step away from being broke.
I don't think you want to be known as the guy down the block that takes cheap photos.
If you want people to continue to pay you....and maybe even set up a side business later on, it would be wise of you to research the market in your area. Find out what sitting fees cost at studios. Find out what liability insurance would cost your future business.
Then take all these things into account if you want to walk down the path of making money as a photographer.
Best of luck,
Chris

 

[fgianni]

Bill

Most people actually like to pay for their photos, it gives them the impression of getting something of value, and at $50 you will probably just recover the cost and vey little else, I would consider it a rock bottom price.

You also may tell them that you will do the shoot and everything for $50 if they let you use the picture for your own self promotion as well (ask for a model release) otherwise the fee is $100

About the ego thing, being asked to take someone's picture for a fee, after they saw my work, would stroke my ego too.

I won't advise you doing it for free, you will be spending tome and money on the thing, and if they think your time is worth money, who are you to disagree.

 

[Andy K]

Do it for coffee.
But say if any of her friends or relatives want the same they'll have to pay the going rate.

 

[ClaremontPhoto]

Neighbours and good friends. Free, or a coffee.

Normal people: EUR100

People with money: EUR 4975

 

[BrianShaw]

I recently did a "job" for a friend who's daughter was being thrown a BIG sweet-16 party. It was as fancy as a medium-sized wedding reception. They offered $300... with them providing the film of my choice and them doing the processing. It took 3 hours (the food was GREAT but I didn't eat too much... too busy). This was their option to avoid a $1200 professional's bid for the job. They wanted pictures of everything... including an individual shot of the birthday girl with each one of her guests. They provided a bag of 36 rolls of the film I asked for. The only disappointment was that the B&W film they provided was chromogenic. I don't like the chromogenic B&W. At the end of the event I bagged the film and handed it to the girl's dad. He thanked me and handed me a folded check. Later, when I looked at the check it was for $200. My wife or I see him and his wife twice a week but never mentioned it. At $100/hr I would have felt well compensated; at $67/hr I felt less well compensated. But it's no real problem... for me it was a good experience and I spent his money wisely. I only wish I saw the results because they raved about them.

 

[jan normandale]

Hello Bill

What to charge? Here's my 0.02$. Find a comparable service to yours. I would suggest you go to the local Sears or Walmart and check their price list. Usually these stores have competent photographers taking family portraits and they produce consistent product. I think that is a fair benchmark for what you are doing on a 'as available' basis. They have overhead to cover so deduct say 10 - 20 percent and that should be fair. Additionally you save them the trouble of hoisting the kids or family into the car, driving to the studio and back.

Go shoot up a storm!

Jan

 

[darkkavenger]

I've been doing photos for one of my very close friends, for his band and for illustrating a part of the CD, the other part being made by another friend who's professional photograph. I never wanted to hear about any kind of compensation, because he's really a close friend, as is the rest of the band. But I've had some lunches offered and quite a lot of alcohol! 😉 And the immense satisfaction and joy when the CD was finally printed out (I've been quite involved in the graphical design of the CD). 🙂

 

[lynn]

I was recently contacted by a writer commissioned to do a travel guide to the "unknown" wonders of Amsterdam. She had seen my website and wanted me to take the photos, 100 - 150 of them. Her budget is small; my honorarium will be minimal. My name, though, will be on the cover of the book, and - since I'm in this for the love of it - that alone pleases me enormously.
I also negotiated duplicate submissions in film and digital: I am convinced that the FE shots will be the better ones, and that analog, in this case, will prevail.
We'll see, though, won't we? 🙂
Bill - I love that middle shot!