richard_l
Well-known
The cheapest would be a Tessar (Rollei 35, 35 T or 35 TE). Those with black finish or a Sonnar lens are usually a little more expensive. I like my silver Rollei 35 (Tessar) as well as my black Rollei 35 S. KEH sometimes has a good price on a Tessar Rollei.scottgee1 said:...I'm not sure though if a working Rollei 35 fits the budget.
ScottGee1
Richard
gatto
Newbie
Definitely have to recommend the Olympus 35RC. Quality compact rangefinder, produces sharp results. Plus you can pick one up in very decent state easily for under £25.
John Robertson
Well-known
Unless you go for one of the later cameras, (the XA series was a good suggestion!) you are probably going to run into battery compatability or dead selenium cell problems with a lot of the older cameras.
I would look at some of the Kodak/Zeiss/Voigtlander meterless cameras with R/Fs, and use a clip-on CV meter!
I would look at some of the Kodak/Zeiss/Voigtlander meterless cameras with R/Fs, and use a clip-on CV meter!
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Jeremy Z
Well-known
I'm surprised there aren't more recommendations for the Yashica Electro 35s.
Fast, sharp f/1.7 lens. Excellent build quality. Very low prices on ebay, probably especially so in Europe, where Japanese stuff isn't as highly-respected as German & Swiss stuff.
Alternately, the Yashica Lynx, which can be had with down to an f/1.4 lens. Those are getting VERY old though, around 50 years old, I think. But being fully mechanical can have its advantages. The f/1.4 lens surely has advantages.
For your demonstration purposes, the Electro 35 would be perfect. It looks old, clunky, and antique. It is inexpensive. Although many of these cameras people are recommending are very nice, many of them are also collectible. Collectible would be counter to the case you're trying to make for your students. Rollei 35s routinely go for $250. Canonets usually fetch around $100 for a decent example.
Also, IMO, if you're going with old technology, you may as well have the benefit of a fast lens. (i.e. faster than f/2.8) We already have enough challenges without having to worry about low light conditions.
To me, a manual rangefinder whose light meter only works in the auto mode is a real kick in the balls. I'm glad I read that before buying. (was ready to buy a Canonet GIII) It adds one more step that adds no value. It's a work-around to a poorly thought-out design. I'm shocked that respected & experienced marques would do that.
Fast, sharp f/1.7 lens. Excellent build quality. Very low prices on ebay, probably especially so in Europe, where Japanese stuff isn't as highly-respected as German & Swiss stuff.
Alternately, the Yashica Lynx, which can be had with down to an f/1.4 lens. Those are getting VERY old though, around 50 years old, I think. But being fully mechanical can have its advantages. The f/1.4 lens surely has advantages.
For your demonstration purposes, the Electro 35 would be perfect. It looks old, clunky, and antique. It is inexpensive. Although many of these cameras people are recommending are very nice, many of them are also collectible. Collectible would be counter to the case you're trying to make for your students. Rollei 35s routinely go for $250. Canonets usually fetch around $100 for a decent example.
Also, IMO, if you're going with old technology, you may as well have the benefit of a fast lens. (i.e. faster than f/2.8) We already have enough challenges without having to worry about low light conditions.
To me, a manual rangefinder whose light meter only works in the auto mode is a real kick in the balls. I'm glad I read that before buying. (was ready to buy a Canonet GIII) It adds one more step that adds no value. It's a work-around to a poorly thought-out design. I'm shocked that respected & experienced marques would do that.
40oz
...
actually, the meter in the Canonet is quite handy, regardless of whether it works in manual mode. I just set it to auto, see what the meter says for the chosen shutter speed, and manully set the aperture and shutter to what I want to use. That's usually two or more steps faster shutter speed, and turn it to 1.7 - twist right one click from auto. But that's because I am often using it in extremely low light.
Otherwise, I use the shutter speed ring to set the aperture using auto mode. I mean, I could set the shutter speed, then the aperture, using a manual metering camera, but since aperture and shutter are linked to EI, I can let the auto system automatically adjust aperture as I change speeds. The meter in mine is quite accurate, and the camera functions quite fine manually, so there is really no loss of functionality. If I want to manually compensate for the scene, it is no more difficult than if I was using a handheld meter - read light meter, set camera. If the shutter and aperture were visible in the viewfinder, manual metering would be handy, but they aren't, so the lack of manual metering isn't a great loss.
IMHO, the true disappointments are those cameras that have no manual functionality. The feature I wish all these cameras had was higher ISO settings for the metering. It's a pain having a fast lens on a pocketable camera that you can't use with really fast films.
Otherwise, I use the shutter speed ring to set the aperture using auto mode. I mean, I could set the shutter speed, then the aperture, using a manual metering camera, but since aperture and shutter are linked to EI, I can let the auto system automatically adjust aperture as I change speeds. The meter in mine is quite accurate, and the camera functions quite fine manually, so there is really no loss of functionality. If I want to manually compensate for the scene, it is no more difficult than if I was using a handheld meter - read light meter, set camera. If the shutter and aperture were visible in the viewfinder, manual metering would be handy, but they aren't, so the lack of manual metering isn't a great loss.
IMHO, the true disappointments are those cameras that have no manual functionality. The feature I wish all these cameras had was higher ISO settings for the metering. It's a pain having a fast lens on a pocketable camera that you can't use with really fast films.
ChrisPlatt
Thread Killer
Don't forget the Ricoh 500G, aka Sears 35|RF.
These twins offer lots of features at very low cost...
Chris
These twins offer lots of features at very low cost...
Chris
scottgee1
RF renegade
Yeah, the limited high ISO speeds have turned out to be an economy that had little impact when the cameras were designed but make us available darkness shooters a bit crazy now.40oz said:
Even back in the 60s SLRs offered ASA settings up to 6400 so the 800/1000 limit was probably based on the manufacturer's designation of fixed lens RFs as amateur cameras.
Ah well.
ScottGee1
Jeremy Z
Well-known
scottgee1 said:
Scott, it may be that the meters just aren't sensitive enough to meter to low enough light levels for use with the higher ISO settings.
Remember, these were the point & shoot cameras of the day, and the meters frequently only went down to 7 EV. (SLRs commonly went down to 2, for example)
But it is a pain, I agree.
john_van_v
Well-known
I have not bought a fixed lens yet, but these are the ones I think are the best buys.
But, be warned, they all seem to have the same mercury battery problem: the specified mercury batteries are illegal in the US. You can use a normal battery of the same size and deal with slight exposure problems, or use tinfoil to adapt a battery, or in the case of Yashicas buy a conversion kit online. Maybe there are other solutions, like pushing/pulling the development times.
The Konica S2, built great, has history as the camera of choice in Viet Nam. Downside, it is heavy.
Cannonet QL-III, was made until recent decades making it a baby among rangenfiders inceasing the chances it is in good condition. You will probably have to put foam in the back to seal it properly.
Olympus SP: has a great zukio 7 element lens, the best lens on a fixed lens RF. It also has spot and wide metering. This is probably the best of the RF fixed lenses, and usually goes for over 100$. It is a little on the large side.
Here is a good oly rf site: http://www.ph.utexas.edu/~yue/misc/rangfndr.html
Disclaimer: there may be typos in the above info, but it is generally accurate
But, be warned, they all seem to have the same mercury battery problem: the specified mercury batteries are illegal in the US. You can use a normal battery of the same size and deal with slight exposure problems, or use tinfoil to adapt a battery, or in the case of Yashicas buy a conversion kit online. Maybe there are other solutions, like pushing/pulling the development times.
The Konica S2, built great, has history as the camera of choice in Viet Nam. Downside, it is heavy.
Cannonet QL-III, was made until recent decades making it a baby among rangenfiders inceasing the chances it is in good condition. You will probably have to put foam in the back to seal it properly.
Olympus SP: has a great zukio 7 element lens, the best lens on a fixed lens RF. It also has spot and wide metering. This is probably the best of the RF fixed lenses, and usually goes for over 100$. It is a little on the large side.
Here is a good oly rf site: http://www.ph.utexas.edu/~yue/misc/rangfndr.html
Disclaimer: there may be typos in the above info, but it is generally accurate
John Robertson
Well-known
There isn't a "best" one as such.
See what is available on evilbay or whereever you look.
Choose the best condition, availability of batteries, and look for a known quality lens(schneider,zeiss ,canon,nikon,or whatever)
Doesn't matter how "fashionable" a camera is, if it don't work reliably, it aint worth s***. Unless you just want to wear it, or put it on a shelf and admire it, or fondle it!!
If thats your bag , thats perfectly fine, then the choice is a lot wider!!
See what is available on evilbay or whereever you look.
Choose the best condition, availability of batteries, and look for a known quality lens(schneider,zeiss ,canon,nikon,or whatever)
Doesn't matter how "fashionable" a camera is, if it don't work reliably, it aint worth s***. Unless you just want to wear it, or put it on a shelf and admire it, or fondle it!!
If thats your bag , thats perfectly fine, then the choice is a lot wider!!
1dave
RFF Sponsoring Member.
I have to vote for the Hexar AF. Best glass for the money around. Always a 'Solid performer' in every category, and there are a few available in the classified section here, from time to time.
NickTrop
Veteran
Depends on what you want to spend, how big/small.
* Yashica GSN (GTN - black), probably the best value. Good ones can be found for $0 - $50. Aperture priority, great lens, fantastic almost spooky metering, very fast in operation, easy to find, no need to adjust voltage of battery or film speed, faster film speed rating (25-1000), parallax corrected rangefinder, shutter reportedly quieter even than the Leica, unique ability to meter and hold shutter open up to 30 seconds, good stepless Copal shutter, good (not great but solid and usable) rangefinder, and an outstanding 45mm/1.7 lens. It also seems to hold up better than most. Spend the extra $20 and get one that's been serviced and has had the POD replaced. (own)
Konica S2 - Large manual FLRF, I don't own this one but enough people brag about its lens to assume it must be very, very good. $30, $40, $50 ??? Depends on condition.
* Konica Auto S3. Just happened to fininsh a roll of Tri-X with this very camera today. Very small, with a renowned 38mm/1.8 lens that was rated as the best semi-wide ever tested by some photo mag when it came out. Reported 62-82 center resolution over all apertures, including wide open. It also has a cool fill-flash metering system. Shutter priority only, no manual override. Very quiet shutter. Perfect street shooter all in black. Diminutive, about the size of the palm of your hand. One of the last and perhaps the best of the fixed lens wonders from Japan. This one will cost you around $100. Somewhat rare.
* Lynx 14e. BIG camera. BUT it's 100% manual (meter, of course), and has the fastest lens ever slapped on a fixed lens - the seven element/5 group double gauss 1.4 Yashinon. It is a very good lens, usable at 1.4 but flare prone. Great low-light shooter.
Minolta 35 SP... Great lens, only JFLRF with spot metering.
Oly RD - small, well-made, manual control but expensive and hard to find.
Oly RC - slower 2.8 lens but folks seem to love this camera. Easy to find, not expensive.
Canon 17 QL III, another of the more popular fixed lens rangefinders. Manual override, well made, shutter priority.
* Yashica Electro CC - another great aperture priority model from Yashica. Much smaller than the GSN - Leica-like in black, with an infamous 35mm/1.8 lens that's hacked off the body and made into Leica M mounts in Japan for $500 US. Hampered by a max shutter speed of 1/250 and speed cap of 400 ASA. Still a great camera, a bit hard to find.
Pick one, but expect to send it out to be CLA'd or repaired. Trust me, it's money well spent. Try not to get "GAS" once you buy one of these. They become addictive and soon they will "multiply" like rabbits. While I like each of the ones I own, truthfully, they all take great pics, are pretty similar, and had I stuck with the my first GSN I would be quite satisfied.
* cameras I own
* Yashica GSN (GTN - black), probably the best value. Good ones can be found for $0 - $50. Aperture priority, great lens, fantastic almost spooky metering, very fast in operation, easy to find, no need to adjust voltage of battery or film speed, faster film speed rating (25-1000), parallax corrected rangefinder, shutter reportedly quieter even than the Leica, unique ability to meter and hold shutter open up to 30 seconds, good stepless Copal shutter, good (not great but solid and usable) rangefinder, and an outstanding 45mm/1.7 lens. It also seems to hold up better than most. Spend the extra $20 and get one that's been serviced and has had the POD replaced. (own)
Konica S2 - Large manual FLRF, I don't own this one but enough people brag about its lens to assume it must be very, very good. $30, $40, $50 ??? Depends on condition.
* Konica Auto S3. Just happened to fininsh a roll of Tri-X with this very camera today. Very small, with a renowned 38mm/1.8 lens that was rated as the best semi-wide ever tested by some photo mag when it came out. Reported 62-82 center resolution over all apertures, including wide open. It also has a cool fill-flash metering system. Shutter priority only, no manual override. Very quiet shutter. Perfect street shooter all in black. Diminutive, about the size of the palm of your hand. One of the last and perhaps the best of the fixed lens wonders from Japan. This one will cost you around $100. Somewhat rare.
* Lynx 14e. BIG camera. BUT it's 100% manual (meter, of course), and has the fastest lens ever slapped on a fixed lens - the seven element/5 group double gauss 1.4 Yashinon. It is a very good lens, usable at 1.4 but flare prone. Great low-light shooter.
Minolta 35 SP... Great lens, only JFLRF with spot metering.
Oly RD - small, well-made, manual control but expensive and hard to find.
Oly RC - slower 2.8 lens but folks seem to love this camera. Easy to find, not expensive.
Canon 17 QL III, another of the more popular fixed lens rangefinders. Manual override, well made, shutter priority.
* Yashica Electro CC - another great aperture priority model from Yashica. Much smaller than the GSN - Leica-like in black, with an infamous 35mm/1.8 lens that's hacked off the body and made into Leica M mounts in Japan for $500 US. Hampered by a max shutter speed of 1/250 and speed cap of 400 ASA. Still a great camera, a bit hard to find.
Pick one, but expect to send it out to be CLA'd or repaired. Trust me, it's money well spent. Try not to get "GAS" once you buy one of these. They become addictive and soon they will "multiply" like rabbits. While I like each of the ones I own, truthfully, they all take great pics, are pretty similar, and had I stuck with the my first GSN I would be quite satisfied.
* cameras I own
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Madrigal
Three-Shot Rose
Just in case it matters, I also like the Konica Auto S2. In all fairness, it's my only reference in this category. I'm new to the RF scene, and now that I'm used to it, I find I reach for it quite often. My jaw dropped when I got the first set of prints back from it. Awesome lens. Has a built-in hood, too.
NickTrop
Veteran
Madrigal said:
I hear this a lot about the S2. If I didn't have so many of hte &$^% things, I would pick this one up.