What you'd want in the M9

[rover]

From what I understand, the bottom baseplate is used instead of a swinging door to maintain camera rigidity and body strength. A swinging door could be utilized but it wouldn't be as strong as the system right now.

And the thing is, how often will you actually be actively running while loading your camera? It literally takes less than 20 seconds to thread the film through the tulip take up spool and close the bottom.

Agreed, unless you are going to put a Canon type QL system in a swing back door camera there is no advantage to it over the modern Leica bottom load.

 

[iml]

Can someone explain to me what's so special about the M8 shutter?

Nothing, AFAICT, apart from an unnecessarily high top speed.

Ian

 

[x-ray]

From what I understand, the bottom baseplate is used instead of a swinging door to maintain camera rigidity and body strength. A swinging door could be utilized but it wouldn't be as strong as the system right now.

And the thing is, how often will you actually be actively running while loading your camera? It literally takes less than 20 seconds to thread the film through the tulip take up spool and close the bottom.

Depends on whether you're being shot at or chased as I have been. Plenty of times to ansere your question. Not all of us shoot pix of our kids in the park some of us have used them for PJ and editorial work.

 

[kevin m]

Originally Posted by maitrestanley
Can someone explain to me what's so special about the M8 shutter?

"Nothing, AFAICT, apart from an unnecessarily high top speed."

Leica has nearly bankrupted themselves thanks to the devil's bargain they've made meeting the needs of hobbyists, fondlers and collectors at the expense of the working professional market. The M8 shutter is a modern shutter, with a high top speed and a 1/250th flash sync. The 'whisper quiet' cloth shutter is actually no quieter than a $300 Canon Elan 7 SLR, and it's actually louder than other, more modern alternatives.

The film M's are living relics of the past, and while it's wonderful that Leica still makes them, they need to offer a relevant, digital platform with modern capabilities to remain viable, or they won't be around to service and support the antiques we so love. If the entire membership of the RFF went out and bought a new MP tomorrow, it wouldn't change that fact.

 

[rover]

Leica has nearly bankrupted themselves thanks to the devil's bargain they've made meeting the needs of hobbyists, fondlers and collectors at the expense of the working professional market. The M8 shutter is a modern shutter, with a high top speed and a 1/250th flash sync. The 'whisper quiet' cloth shutter is actually no quieter than a $300 Canon Elan 7 SLR, and it's actually louder than other, more modern alternatives.

The film M's are living relics of the past, and while it's wonderful that Leica still makes them, they need to offer a relevant, digital platform with modern capabilities to remain viable, or they won't be around to service and support the antiques we so love. If the entire membership of the RFF went out and bought a new MP tomorrow, it wouldn't change that fact.

I would disagree that the Film M's are living relics if you are saying that is all they are, but also add that to survive this capable digital platform has to be priced relative to the market to be relevant and a boon to the company. I would suggest that Canon and Nikon are not making a huge profit selling a low quantity of high end DSLRs, but they are cleaning house with volume sales of the sub $1000 and mid range cameras.

 

[peter_n]

I would not want another all-mechanical camera. The MP is all that's necessary for people who like that stuff. But as I posted here and elsewhere ages ago I'd like an M9 with the M8 metal shutter that will go up to 1/4000s or whatever. Move film settings and exposure compensation to the top panel somewhere like on an SLR and stick a film box-end holder on the back of the camera so I know what I've got in the cam. A bit of weather-proofing wouldn't go amiss either.

 

[Rob Skeoch]

I've loved the four M6's that I've owned over the years... all four were what we now call classics. The only thing I really wanted was a higher flash sync and TTL flash. I think the M7 and MP would be all I'd need for film cameras.

The real area to make progress is in the digital.... they need a full frame 12mg digital camera that's built to last 8-10 years of daily use.

Maybe we'll get that soon.

Rob Skeoch
www.bigcameraworkshops.com

 

[maitrestanley]

Depends on whether you're being shot at or chased as I have been. Plenty of times to ansere your question. Not all of us shoot pix of our kids in the park some of us have used them for PJ and editorial work.

You really need to get your priorities straight then. One's life is bounds more important than reloading a camera. Amongst the photojournalists I've spoken to and read about, you must be the first one to claim that your camera takes priority over your life in that kind of situation.

And I agree - not all of us shoot pix of our kids. I don't even have kids. I have my one baby, my M6.

 

[TJV]

This is nonsense, film cameras are matured so amazingly good , what are we talking about? maybe we should talk about film improvement and development, film availability, enlarging technics, film body development? are you serious?

Exactly my thoughts! The MP / M7 combo is perfect in my eyes, as was the M6 for that matter... This thread just goes to show you that digi is still a new kid on the block.

 

[Magus]

Post deleted by posters request

 

[x-ray]

You really need to get your priorities straight then. One's life is bounds more important than reloading a camera. Amongst the photojournalists I've spoken to and read about, you must be the first one to claim that your camera takes priority over your life in that kind of situation.

And I agree - not all of us shoot pix of our kids. I don't even have kids. I have my one baby, my M6.

My priorities are straight and have served me well through 42 years of professional photography. How many people do you actually know and have personally talked to that made or make a living with M Leicas? The bottom plate has always been an annoyance for every other pro that I've known, just like the removable bottom and back for the original Nikon F. By the way you might notice that Nikon dropped it in the F2 model due to complaints about what to do with it while loading on the run. I think it was dropped in the 70's.

Leicas resistance to change and keeping up with the professional world is what is killing them. Untill they're ready to think outside the traditional Leica box they will continue to fail and they have little time to do it.

Your M6 is your "baby"? And my priorities aren't straight?

 

[maitrestanley]

My priorities are straight and have served me well through 42 years of professional photography. How many people do you actually know and have personally talked to that made or make a living with M Leicas? The bottom plate has always been an annoyance for every other pro that I've known, just like the removable bottom and back for the original Nikon F. By the way you might notice that Nikon dropped it in the F2 model due to complaints about what to do with it while loading on the run. I think it was dropped in the 70's.

Leicas resistance to change and keeping up with the professional world is what is killing them. Untill they're ready to think outside the traditional Leica box they will continue to fail and they have little time to do it.

Your M6 is your "baby"? And my priorities aren't straight?

As long as I know how they operate, it really doesn't matter how many professionals I personally know. I actively read the posts made by members on lightstalkers.org and many (most) of them are professionals that seek and give advice when it comes to hostile situations. NEVER has anyone there made any implication that one should be loading film instead of placing all of one's attention to basic survival. You can argue all you want but I don't think you're going to convince anyone here that your film is more important than your life.

The bottom loading system is cumbersome but I believe that the benefits justifies it. I prefer to have a more solid camera. But then again, this just boils down to priorities again..

Btw, Leica isn't failing as a company just because they don't pander to the masses. Leica has be providing some of the best tools money can buy and this in itself is already an achievement. They've upheld high standards and because of this, they don't jump on every single new snippet of technology. They go through extensive design and rigorous testing of new technology before they put their name on it.


That's right. My M6 is my baby. I made love to an M4-P and 3 months later, she gave birth to the M6. Isn't it amazing? I mean, wooooooooooooooooooooow. Let's all take everything literally now!

 

[rover]

ok, so now that we have established that people have opinions about this bottom door vs back plate thing let's get back to the M9.

 

[Al Patterson]

One word. Film. The M8 should be the D8, or M7d. Although a digital CL or CLE would be neat.

 

[johne]

Leica should start the M9 with an M8 that works, IMHO.
Johne

 

[Krosya]

Its funny how this thread, as well as many others end up in film vs digital. Well, to keep it more or less on topic, let me say this. While I agree that Leica needs to make some digital cameras, why do they have to me M series? I mean, whats wrong with P&S and SLRs? After all - all others do just that. I think M series is legend in its own way and should stay that. I don't think film is going anywhere. EVER. It maybe will become a far less used, but it will be there. There many arguments and exapmles in other areas, but I don't feel this is the place to talk about it now. So, next M, if there is one - should be mechanical. As to what's in it - I'd like to see one that would compete with Ikon - features and pricewise. I like my Ms, but I still keep an eye on that Zeiss Ikon. If only it had a mechanical shutter - it would be a much easier descision for me.

 

[maitrestanley]

While I agree that Leica needs to make some digital cameras, why do they have to me M series? I mean, whats wrong with P&S and SLRs?

Well, Leica does produce digital P&S as well as an option of a digital back for the R slr series.

The important of a digital M body is the capability to use M lenses..... and the fact that the body is a Leica and not a Canon or Nikon w a lens adaptor (which wouldn't work I don't think due to lens design)

 

[Magus]

Post deleted by posters request

 

[naos]

What I'd like to see in the M9 (Digital)

What I'd like to see in the M9 (Digital)

Basically I'd like it have the same look, feel and operation as an MP, but in a digital version. Weather proofing would be nice also.

 

[x-ray]

Well, Leica does produce digital P&S as well as an option of a digital back for the R slr series.

Sorry but leica dropped the digital back for the R and they don't make the P&S cameras. They're panasonic designed and built. They're available under the panasonic name too.