What's causing this little flare? Canon III

[Forest_rain]

You can see it in the lower left hand corner of all the pictures on the roll, using a 100mm 3.5. In some pictures, like in the last one, you can see it repeat several times along the bottom in this exact same pattern.

The cloth shutter has a little wrinkle in it, kind of in the lower right hand corner when viewed from the front, so a similar position in the film plane, pretty minor but I'm wondering if this is causing light to reflect in from the bottom and onto the film.


Or could it be the lens? It looks like a lens flare almost, but it's weird that it's in all the pictures.

 

[TenEleven]

Since the flare, or I think rather light-leak, is not reddish in color or diffuse (a color it acquires passing through the films base - e.g. coming in from the back) my bet would be this leak coming in from the front.


Thus, my bet is that the cloth curtain of this camera has pin-holes. Obviously the image is mirror reversed vs the negative, so you'd have to look in the upper right corner of the shutter for those.


Be sure to check both the first and second curtain.
Depending on how you wind or not wind the camera it may be either.

 

[Forest_rain]

The second curtain looks good, like it was replaced at some point. First curtain (I think it's what shows when the shutter is uncocked) looks like it has the rubber backing peeling off the cloth in the upper left corner (when viewed from the front). The upper right corner, from the front, doesn't seem to have any flaws.



But isn't this in the wrong place? I can see this because the shutter "rolls up" and I can see the back of the left side of the shutter (again, from the front), but I can't see the right side of the first curtain.


I have some flat black model paint and model primer, would this be suitable for painting the upper corners? I'm worried the paint will "crack" since the shutter rolls up. I've heard of people using electrical tape, but I also could buy some black leather paint, since I need it anyway, and I'm assuming this would be flexible since it's for leather.


Any insights here? Thanks for response.

Since the flare, or I think rather light-leak, is not reddish in color or diffuse (a color it acquires passing through the films base - e.g. coming in from the back) my bet would be this leak coming in from the front.


Thus, my bet is that the cloth curtain of this camera has pin-holes. Obviously the image is mirror reversed vs the negative, so you'd have to look in the upper right corner of the shutter for those.


Be sure to check both the first and second curtain.
Depending on how you wind or not wind the camera it may be either.

 

[Phil_F_NM]

So your weird artifact in the lower portion of the frame comes from the upper part of the curtain. If you're looking at the lower left, then your issue is in the upper right hand side of the film box/curtain/film plane. It looks like you're pausing a bit when winding your shutter since in the last image you have the artifact repeated a few times across the frame. This means that it is both bright out and you have numerous significant holes to cause such an exposure over a short amount of time.

In order to test for light leaks, you need to find the BRIGHTEST light possible. Not the sun, you won't be able to see the pinholes outside, and you'll also burn your retina. Get an intense flashlight and a big piece of cardboard. Cut a rectangular hole in the cardboard smaller than the camera but bigger than the film plane. Tape the front of the camera to the cardboard so that if you were to open the shutter, you would be able to see through the hole you cut. This cardboard thing isn't necessary but it makes detecting pinpricks much easier by allowing your eyes to dilate as much as they can (in a dimly lit or completely darkened room) so as to be the most sensitive to tiny points of light.

Wind your camera, stick the light close to the front of the camera and look for your pinpoints. Actuate the shutter then do the same for the second curtain.

Get your sealant ready then repeat. When people say electrical tape, they are meaning liquid electrical "tape", not the actual tape. You can use tiny dabs of black silicone as well, but this can also make the shutter slightly stiffer while still allowing it to roll around the drum. Do the same light test but "plug" the holes as you are testing in the dark. Once you put your sealing material on, do not trip the shutter or wind it. If you do, you will effectively glue your curtain to itself and you'll be sending the camera out for the service it already needs. Wait for the FULL CURING TIME of whatever you are using to seal those pinholes. Once one curtain is done, repeat for the other. If you have more than 4 or 5 holes in one curtain, it needs to be replaced. from the look of it, this is most likely the case. That just means it is becoming threadbare and will continue to shed the rubberized coating, both into your camera gate, onto your film, into the escapement and everywhere it can.

http://gallery.leica-users.org/d/461043-2/IIIfCurtain.jpg Images aren't loading in threads right now for some reason, so here's a link to a bad curtain.

This image was made with my old Leica IIIf that *looked* to the naked eye like it had a nice shutter in daylight. (Not with the above light test.) All those blobs you see are a multitude of holes from the threadbare shutter. The rubber had turned to powder inside the camera. A trip to Youxin took care of it and it was like new after that work.
Good luck.

Phil Forrest

 

[farlymac]

I use fabric paint on pinholes, but it's only a temporary measure. You really should get the curtain replaced.


PF

 

[Forest_rain]

Looks like CLA cost from Youxin + New curtains cost about $210. I got the camera for a bargain price, about $60+$20 shipping, but I might send it back if that's the case. I just thought I'd use it as a backup.



Plus, the slow speeds don't work - I don't really care, but it might lower the value if I want to sell it. I just thought it'd be cool to have an older Canon but I already have a Canon 7, so I don't totally need this one. It seems like he might not be able to fix the slow speeds because they are pretty erratic.


Slow speeds - bulb sometimes works as 1/25th, slow speeds all work sometimes as bulb, sometimes different slow speeds work at 1/25th or bulb, and if they work properly they are sluggish and sometimes stick which means the slow speed escapement is also gunked up.


Given all that I think sending it back as non-working or not at described sounds like it might be best.


Assuming the seller doesn't cause a ruckus about it or get upset, maybe negotiate a discount if that's true and just use it till it stops functioning then try to replace the curtain myself.


Unfortunately $200 is not in the camera budget right now 😉

If you have more than 4 or 5 holes in one curtain, it needs to be replaced. from the look of it, this is most likely the case. That just means it is becoming threadbare and will continue to shed the rubberized coating, both into your camera gate, onto your film, into the escapement and everywhere it can.

Phil Forrest

 

[farlymac]

Looks like CLA cost from Youxin + New curtains cost about $210. I got the camera for a bargain price, about $60+$20 shipping, but I might send it back if that's the case. I just thought I'd use it as a backup.



Plus, the slow speeds don't work - I don't really care, but it might lower the value if I want to sell it. I just thought it'd be cool to have an older Canon but I already have a Canon 7, so I don't totally need this one. It seems like he might not be able to fix the slow speeds because they are pretty erratic.


Slow speeds - bulb sometimes works as 1/25th, slow speeds all work sometimes as bulb, sometimes different slow speeds work at 1/25th or bulb, and if they work properly they are sluggish and sometimes stick which means the slow speed escapement is also gunked up.


Given all that I think sending it back as non-working or not at described sounds like it might be best.


Assuming the seller doesn't cause a ruckus about it or get upset, maybe negotiate a discount if that's true and just use it till it stops functioning then try to replace the curtain myself.


Unfortunately $200 is not in the camera budget right now 😉

With that many issues it probably is best to return it. Plenty more LTM cameras out there to chose from. The older they are the more problems they will have, and the more bargain priced usually means the more problems they do have.


Right now the market prices have gone up too, what with everyone sitting around all day with lots of time to purvey the Internet. Still, my recommendation would be a Canon P as your back-up. You have to search a bit, but there are some available on eBay for under $200 including shipping. Just don't deal with anyone who has a satisfaction rating lower than 99%.


PF

 

[Forest_rain]

The shutter curtain around the drum when uncocked looks pretty good (first curtain). When I cock the shutter, when it gets to the very end, you can see a little deterioration at the top. This is around the middle of the first curtain rear I think. I can't see the upper left side of the shutter without disassembly (I think).


If I can negotiate a $20 discount I might keep it. It doesn't look that bad in this picture, just a little bit of cracking, and I can use some latex to cover this visible part, then cover the front upper left with latex.


I'm gonna think about it, because $45 for a canon III would be a really bargain price, even if it's not perfect, and suitable for a backup.

 

[Phil_F_NM]

That curtain is over. You could perhaps get a few more rolls out of it by judiciously using a lens cap and taking it off only for exposure, immediately capping the lens, then winding when you need to take another shot.
This is the risk you take by buying cheap. One out of one-hundred you get lucky, the rest get returned or become projects. I cannot recommend the members of RFF highly enough for trusted sales. Seriously. Spend the money on a good camera that works from a trusted member, or a shop that will give you a warranty; or buy a junker then get it repaired. Either way you're still in for roughly the same amount of money in the end.
Take if from me and probably many other people on this and other forums who have been chasing gear for 20+ years. Since 1992 I've probably spent over $100,000 on gear, used most of it, then sold it off, often breaking even, sometimes at a loss, rarely at a profit. The opportunity cost in time is priceless though. Eventually I learned that I really just needed to save up for the best working sample of a camera I could afford, I was patient and I shopped around. You'll find that spending on the highest quality will be less expensive in the end, over chasing deals on dubious gear of unknown provenance. That makes the most sense if you want to shoot. If you seriously want to learn repair, buy some good tools, a non-slip mat, a few good lights, magnifying lens, a few Tomosoy books and go to town on those broken Barnacks.

Phil Forrest

 

[farlymac]

That curtain isn't far from ripping apart. Replace it, or return the camera.



PF

 

[Forest_rain]

Fair enough, I'll trust your guy's judgement since you all seem to have a lot of experience. Will attempt to send it back, but I have a feeling the seller might get upset. Will see.

That curtain isn't far from ripping apart. Replace it, or return the camera.



PF

 

[Forest_rain]

So, the seller was apologetic and said that he was willing to accept the return but said that he really didn't want the camera back, and asked if it was worth anything to me - is there any amount of money this camera is worth? I paid $60 +$15 shipping. Someone suggested that the curtain might give out pretty soon, so maybe not.


I'm not surprised, since it's just a private individual who loses shipping both ways.


Still, I've done this compromise before, I'm not sure if youxin would charge $210 or the $250 he lists for the iiig (Why is the iiig more?)


Also the slow speeds are erratic, so he might not be able to fix, making the CLA pointless:


"Slow speeds - bulb sometimes works as 1/25th, slow speeds all work sometimes as bulb, sometimes different slow speeds work at 1/25th or bulb, and if they work properly they are sluggish and sometimes stick which means the slow speed escapement is also gunked up."

 

[farlymac]

Actually, for that price it would be cheaper to keep it and get it repaired. You're going to pay a bit to get one that is in very good to excellent condition, or had a recent CLA.



The IIIg cost more to CLA because it has a more complex viewfinder than the other III series cameras.


PF