TennesseJones
Well-known
Really interesting.
9 leica bodies certainly seems improbable in the digital age, unless you're an oligarch or an economic optimist but I've been thinking of trying one. I did my first long commission all on film last year, but processing costs if I'm paying are so significant.
In order to get an X pro, 3 lenses and some sort of back up body I'd need to spend more or the same than a used M9, which would take the lenses I already use. And I'd have an m6 for 'back up'
But perhaps the X pro is just more sensible and I'm just being nostalgic for a way of working that I have only done for a short period of time. Nostalgic in fact for Bill's old way of working which even Bill has abandoned.
Right now I have a decent sum in credit at a used camera dealer, and am trying to work out whether to put it into a digital M.
9 leica bodies certainly seems improbable in the digital age, unless you're an oligarch or an economic optimist but I've been thinking of trying one. I did my first long commission all on film last year, but processing costs if I'm paying are so significant.
In order to get an X pro, 3 lenses and some sort of back up body I'd need to spend more or the same than a used M9, which would take the lenses I already use. And I'd have an m6 for 'back up'
But perhaps the X pro is just more sensible and I'm just being nostalgic for a way of working that I have only done for a short period of time. Nostalgic in fact for Bill's old way of working which even Bill has abandoned.
Right now I have a decent sum in credit at a used camera dealer, and am trying to work out whether to put it into a digital M.
TennesseJones
Well-known
But in a quick ps. I do bloody love using my m6, which makes me want a digital one
robert blu
quiet photographer
@ Roger: i agree with you, but partially! For sure Frances with her B&W printing experience can confirm us that there is not only Black or White but many intermediate degrees 
. I prefer not to disturb the gentle atmosphere in this post so I'll tell you privately some more comments! Maybe in Arles in front of a glass of "Perier" !
Not sure yet about Arles, probably yes! It is always an experience which adds something to our cultural baggage!
Cheers, robert
. I prefer not to disturb the gentle atmosphere in this post so I'll tell you privately some more comments! Maybe in Arles in front of a glass of "Perier" !Not sure yet about Arles, probably yes! It is always an experience which adds something to our cultural baggage!
Cheers, robert
leicapixie
Well-known
I appreciate the advice and technical assistance Bill Pierce gave me, in the past via magazines, Pop Photo, Camera 35 and others.
The use of cameras other than Leica-M which I do own and use. The SLR for me a great stride forward. The need for viewfinder accuracy most important, in using Wide angle lenses! The built in meters and occasional
auto metering a plus. My Pentax Spotmatic with superb "no flare" images.
My Canon Ae-1, Ae-1P simply fun. The Nikon-F system with really contrasty and sharp lens systems.The Pentax and Nikon used in severe conditions.
These included Civil Unrest, Riots, Civil War. Going from Fashion, to record a nation, in the throes of re-birth and major change.
Times have changed. Photography is no longer done by a thought process of the 50's,60's,70,90's.. It's about instant imaging, ease of dissemination,many destinations in limited time.
I think the use of Canon/Nikon DSLR really no longer required.
If I think that, for MY NEEDS, small point and shoots way better.
The i-Phone almost perfect.
The new love for Fuji understandable.The reality Fuji has brought out wonderful cameras and systems. The moment there is a hiccup in sales, they are "deaded". Deleted with utmost severity!
So if folks think they will be supported as Leica DID IN THE PAST,
bubba it aint gonna happen! Not in Fuji or Leica.
Most certainly not by Nikon or Canon.
Profit is found in consumers, not Professionals.
Pros are good for references.
So if you are a young pro, use the modern concepts!
There are certain assignments which may be better served with a DSLR, others with a Leica-M digital. Where speed of results is not required, a film camera is still a working solution. My ancient M-3 still a formidable unit.
The camera on you, the best camera.
The use of cameras other than Leica-M which I do own and use. The SLR for me a great stride forward. The need for viewfinder accuracy most important, in using Wide angle lenses! The built in meters and occasional
auto metering a plus. My Pentax Spotmatic with superb "no flare" images.
My Canon Ae-1, Ae-1P simply fun. The Nikon-F system with really contrasty and sharp lens systems.The Pentax and Nikon used in severe conditions.
These included Civil Unrest, Riots, Civil War. Going from Fashion, to record a nation, in the throes of re-birth and major change.
Times have changed. Photography is no longer done by a thought process of the 50's,60's,70,90's.. It's about instant imaging, ease of dissemination,many destinations in limited time.
I think the use of Canon/Nikon DSLR really no longer required.
If I think that, for MY NEEDS, small point and shoots way better.
The i-Phone almost perfect.
The new love for Fuji understandable.The reality Fuji has brought out wonderful cameras and systems. The moment there is a hiccup in sales, they are "deaded". Deleted with utmost severity!
So if folks think they will be supported as Leica DID IN THE PAST,
bubba it aint gonna happen! Not in Fuji or Leica.
Most certainly not by Nikon or Canon.
Profit is found in consumers, not Professionals.
Pros are good for references.
So if you are a young pro, use the modern concepts!
There are certain assignments which may be better served with a DSLR, others with a Leica-M digital. Where speed of results is not required, a film camera is still a working solution. My ancient M-3 still a formidable unit.
The camera on you, the best camera.
kshapero
South Florida Man
Well I am mostly retired now (I can switch on and off with an M3 and an M9) but I remember the day when I had 2 Nikon F's around my neck and another rotating in the shop. of course the straps had to be different lengths or you were in a hill of trouble. When photographers had to push for the shot, the F's became weapons.
Given the realities of the market, three iPhone 5 bodies would be the ultimate photojournalistic kit, they are only $600 unlocked and they shoot better than any other digital camera I've seen yet.
I don't know of any pros that have nine DSLR bodies and the professional Nikon and Canons are very reliable and rugged. Perhaps a single weathersealed D3s or IDx with a professional 2.8 zoom is all you really need, maybe throw a Contax TVs in the pocket for emergencies. It would be considerably less hassle than juggling three smaller cameras, especially three different smaller cameras (which seems really bizarre).
I've shot with Leicas and other nice rangefinders for almost 30 years and while they are very nice, I can't help but be impressed at how well the utilitarian Nikons hold up and endure compared to the fancy expensive cameras....
The other point that sticks out to me is that while a film M body is "just right" and feels great in the hand, cramming all the digital buttons and dials and controls into that form factor (or onto an even smaller body) makes things cluttered, busy, and tight. It's not fast or fun to be pecking at the backs of these things but at least a solid Canikon body has enough landscape to layout the controls properly....
I don't know of any pros that have nine DSLR bodies and the professional Nikon and Canons are very reliable and rugged. Perhaps a single weathersealed D3s or IDx with a professional 2.8 zoom is all you really need, maybe throw a Contax TVs in the pocket for emergencies. It would be considerably less hassle than juggling three smaller cameras, especially three different smaller cameras (which seems really bizarre).
I've shot with Leicas and other nice rangefinders for almost 30 years and while they are very nice, I can't help but be impressed at how well the utilitarian Nikons hold up and endure compared to the fancy expensive cameras....
The other point that sticks out to me is that while a film M body is "just right" and feels great in the hand, cramming all the digital buttons and dials and controls into that form factor (or onto an even smaller body) makes things cluttered, busy, and tight. It's not fast or fun to be pecking at the backs of these things but at least a solid Canikon body has enough landscape to layout the controls properly....
noimmunity
scratch my niche
I think Bill's question is addressed to professionals, about which I have no useful advice (due to lack of experience).
For enthusiasts, the equation is totally different, because the subjective element is weighted so much more heavily.
Anybody who would advise people to get a Leica at this point is not a true friend.
As for Fuji, the real Leica-killer innovation would be to figure out some way of manual focus confirmation in the OVF.
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
Bill,
I got into the GXR system 10 months ago when I decided to ditch my Rolleiflexes due to issues with scanning qualities. I either had to keep the camera's and a crappy scanner, or sell them to buy a good scanner
Currently I own two GXR bodies, two M mounts and a finder. On them I use eight different lenses (all LTM), and a Nikon F -> Leica M adapter also allows to use the Nikkor 1.4/58mm as a perfect portrait lens, turns into an 1.4/85mm on APS-C.
I'm looking to buy a second VF-2, and a 24-72mm lensor. I'm planning and hoping that this small system will keep me digital for a few years to come.
If it still needs film I can bring either a Leica II or a prewar Zeiss-Ikon folder, I scan on two scanners, one of em dedicated 135 scanner, the other a flatbed. Hi-res requests from 120 now get sent out, takes about a week.
Still is a simple Nikon D3100 with a single AF lens and some manual zooms and primes available as well.
For my portraitture-related needs this works fine and the GXR system is also ideal to shoot reportage with.
Another great pro in all this is the removal of clutter, there's enough to fit every need but nothing beyond that. I'm selling or giving away lots of small stuff that I have no need for, to clean house and mind.
I got into the GXR system 10 months ago when I decided to ditch my Rolleiflexes due to issues with scanning qualities. I either had to keep the camera's and a crappy scanner, or sell them to buy a good scanner
Currently I own two GXR bodies, two M mounts and a finder. On them I use eight different lenses (all LTM), and a Nikon F -> Leica M adapter also allows to use the Nikkor 1.4/58mm as a perfect portrait lens, turns into an 1.4/85mm on APS-C.
I'm looking to buy a second VF-2, and a 24-72mm lensor. I'm planning and hoping that this small system will keep me digital for a few years to come.
If it still needs film I can bring either a Leica II or a prewar Zeiss-Ikon folder, I scan on two scanners, one of em dedicated 135 scanner, the other a flatbed. Hi-res requests from 120 now get sent out, takes about a week.
Still is a simple Nikon D3100 with a single AF lens and some manual zooms and primes available as well.
For my portraitture-related needs this works fine and the GXR system is also ideal to shoot reportage with.
Another great pro in all this is the removal of clutter, there's enough to fit every need but nothing beyond that. I'm selling or giving away lots of small stuff that I have no need for, to clean house and mind.
I use the Fuji X100s, Fuji X-Pro1 w/ 18mm and 35mm, a Leica M8 with a 28mm and 35mm, and a Sigma DP2 Merrill. In some ways I feel I am compromising... i.e. when it comes to wide angles on crop sensors, but in other ways they blow away the 35mm film experience for me.
TennesseJones
Well-known
Why both Leica and Fuji X pro? Just different experiences?
Not being annoying, just wondering whilst considering a future purchase....
Not being annoying, just wondering whilst considering a future purchase....
Archiver
Veteran
I have a M9 and a slew of other cameras; tempted to move to the M 240 but finances do not permit at this time, even if availability did.
Like many others, the Ricoh GXR is my M-mount camera for when I'm not using the M9. I love the way it renders and the focus peaking mode works pretty well. At a wedding last year, I shot half with the M9 and half with the GXR, and in many cases you couldn't tell the photos apart, whereas the difference between the M9 and the Oly OM-D is much more pronounced.
If I want an autofocus system, I have the Oly OM-D. It's proving to be a very compact and versatile system with decent enough image quality. Not M9 level, but decent enough for most occasions, and much more versatile, not to mention far less expensive.
For work, I have a Canon rig with a 5D Mark II and a swag of lenses, but I hardly ever use it for personal work. It's just too big and clunky for my liking, especially since taking the Leica route. But for reliable colour, framing, lens selection and of course video, the Canon system trumps everything else I have.
Like many others, the Ricoh GXR is my M-mount camera for when I'm not using the M9. I love the way it renders and the focus peaking mode works pretty well. At a wedding last year, I shot half with the M9 and half with the GXR, and in many cases you couldn't tell the photos apart, whereas the difference between the M9 and the Oly OM-D is much more pronounced.
If I want an autofocus system, I have the Oly OM-D. It's proving to be a very compact and versatile system with decent enough image quality. Not M9 level, but decent enough for most occasions, and much more versatile, not to mention far less expensive.
For work, I have a Canon rig with a 5D Mark II and a swag of lenses, but I hardly ever use it for personal work. It's just too big and clunky for my liking, especially since taking the Leica route. But for reliable colour, framing, lens selection and of course video, the Canon system trumps everything else I have.
Aristophanes
Well-known
With regards to the Leica expense, Leica themselves admit they have moved beyond the photojournalism market with their M system. Leica's position is they will make high-end cameras foremost as a priority even if that means moving beyond the journalist market:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/marcbab...ng-the-medium-format-market-on-its-own-terms/
"In today’s professional market, photojournalists are a rare breed, and they are no longer as well paid as in previous generations. For a high-end brand that charges premium prices, this secular trend needed to be addressed.
We deemed it essential to maintain a strong position in the professional market, but we realized that we needed to fundamentally reinvent our approach. Above all, we needed a product that could appeal to the kind of professional photographers who are able to afford a professional camera. Today, these photographers predominantly work in fashion and commercial photography. They need a different type of camera than photojournalists who use the Leica M. Because of the nature of their assignments, fashion and advertising photographers tend to be committed medium-format users."
Translation: The M system is a luxury item. The corollary of this is that publishers no longer see the quality coming from Leica as being anything special, or worth paying more for. Leica, neither worth it nor necessary.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/marcbab...ng-the-medium-format-market-on-its-own-terms/
"In today’s professional market, photojournalists are a rare breed, and they are no longer as well paid as in previous generations. For a high-end brand that charges premium prices, this secular trend needed to be addressed.
We deemed it essential to maintain a strong position in the professional market, but we realized that we needed to fundamentally reinvent our approach. Above all, we needed a product that could appeal to the kind of professional photographers who are able to afford a professional camera. Today, these photographers predominantly work in fashion and commercial photography. They need a different type of camera than photojournalists who use the Leica M. Because of the nature of their assignments, fashion and advertising photographers tend to be committed medium-format users."
Translation: The M system is a luxury item. The corollary of this is that publishers no longer see the quality coming from Leica as being anything special, or worth paying more for. Leica, neither worth it nor necessary.
Bill Clark
Veteran
Why not a smart phone like an iPhone? Purchased a new iPad with Retina display a few days ago. They really take wonderful photographs.
Or a mirrorless camera?
Or a mirrorless camera?
Aristophanes
Well-known
Why not a smaller, lighter DSLR? Or an Olympus? Pentax and Canon make small DSLR's that compare to the X-Pro 1 if you use primes, and you have the option of zooms. The meet many of your other criteria, but are APS-C, like the Fuji options?
Yeah, I was holding onto the M8 based on nostalgia. Sometimes I like to manual focus with a rangefinder. However, it is now for sale. I don't use it much ... the Fujis work better for my needs due to close focus, lighter weight, AF, high ISO, etc.