lushd
Donald
Some philosophical discussion invited:
I've noticed that participants in this forum and many others frequently ask "What's the best camera/lens/developer etc" ...
I've also noticed the responses seem to divide into two camps. In one the response is another question - "What's the best for you? Go and experiment, see what works".
In the other, an unseemly row breaks out about whether this camera/film/lens or that camera/film/lens is any good. It often looks as though pistols at dawn are on the agenda.
Asking this question is quite seductive. Photography involves a lot of technical skill and advanced equipment. There is a strong sense (and a justifiable one) that there must be an optimum method for reliable and high quality results. I think this feeling strays over into the imaginative and creative end.
The implied question sometimes seems to be "what gear should I buy to make me a good photographer?" I think as soon as you ask it in this way, the answer can only be that one is chasing an illusion.
I think we'd all like to improve our photography (as well as our gear) so my final question:
What's the best way to become a better photographer?
I've noticed that participants in this forum and many others frequently ask "What's the best camera/lens/developer etc" ...
I've also noticed the responses seem to divide into two camps. In one the response is another question - "What's the best for you? Go and experiment, see what works".
In the other, an unseemly row breaks out about whether this camera/film/lens or that camera/film/lens is any good. It often looks as though pistols at dawn are on the agenda.
Asking this question is quite seductive. Photography involves a lot of technical skill and advanced equipment. There is a strong sense (and a justifiable one) that there must be an optimum method for reliable and high quality results. I think this feeling strays over into the imaginative and creative end.
The implied question sometimes seems to be "what gear should I buy to make me a good photographer?" I think as soon as you ask it in this way, the answer can only be that one is chasing an illusion.
I think we'd all like to improve our photography (as well as our gear) so my final question:
What's the best way to become a better photographer?
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Turtle
Veteran
lushd said:
It is a very good question and one I have asked myself. I have come to the conclusion, as crass as it may sound, that one has to simply 'be oneself'. Great work is the product not of great conscious toil but talent (and toil that follows and not leads!)I feel. Perhaps this is why great peolple often get worn out, without even knowing about it or having any choice in the matter. I guess we have to find a way of allowing whatever talent we have to be in charge of our photography rather than determination and ambition driving us towards more consciously determined and less original objectives.
I have come to the conclusion that the only chance I have of being a good photographer is not to try to be one, because that idea (of trying to be a 'good photographer') already suggests driving towards something already determined, known, extant. Such an objective surely diminishes the chance that I would have anything original and personal to offer.
I just want to do my thing, enjoy it and see what happens. Yes my photography is very important to me, but feel that I am more likely to achieve the objective by not having one...just doing what I love, what inspires me, what the inner me wants not the outer me!
Maybe the fact that I am even thinking about it means that my prospects are limited?
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R
RML
Guest
Read, experiment, take classes, delve into other forms of art, play with your kid, play with your partner, play with your friends, enjoy life, and shoot. 
M4streetshooter
Tourist Thru Life
One way would be to....
leave the camera's at home.....make an appointment for your local museum at the Print and Picture department and go and look at images until your eyes hurt...then get some sleep and after doing this many times, images will start to appear in your head.....
then get your camera and make images.....
photography is about Seeing and Recording...
the camera knows how to Record....you have to do your part and learn not only how to See but how to Capture/Record with the camera to make the final image.....
I have an entire workshop about improving vision etc but there ain't enuff space here to post it....
leave the camera's at home.....make an appointment for your local museum at the Print and Picture department and go and look at images until your eyes hurt...then get some sleep and after doing this many times, images will start to appear in your head.....
then get your camera and make images.....
photography is about Seeing and Recording...
the camera knows how to Record....you have to do your part and learn not only how to See but how to Capture/Record with the camera to make the final image.....
I have an entire workshop about improving vision etc but there ain't enuff space here to post it....
Gid
Well-known
I think there are three elements, all of which are important in my opinion. The first is technical skill - you know your equipment, you know how to expose for a given result and you can repeat this at will. The second is taking plenty of photographs, that is, practice, but also putting yourself in situations where there are photographic opportunities - if you stay at home most of the time, you are limiting yourself, unless you do some kind of studio work. The third element is developing an eye for a good image (not certain how far you can develop this if it is not already latent within you) - I think you can improve by looking at other's work and working with basic composition rules (guidelines).
The equipment you use does play a part, but in my opinion its about how seamless it is in use and that's mainly about ergonomics and reliability. However, if having brand X gives you a psychological boost, then that will also have a positive impact.
Just my 2 pennies worth.
The equipment you use does play a part, but in my opinion its about how seamless it is in use and that's mainly about ergonomics and reliability. However, if having brand X gives you a psychological boost, then that will also have a positive impact.
Just my 2 pennies worth.
Practice, practice, practice.
dexdog
Veteran
BillRogers said:
I was gonna say that, but someone beat me to it. Lack of practice is my biggest issue. I see great potential photographs from time to time, but I don't have the technical skill and experience to capture these images as they should be captured. I envisioned a great image yesterday of a bunch of folks standing in line waiting for a bus- dramatic winter lighting, and a set designer could not have arranged the folks in such an interesting arrangement. I need to work on my exposure techniques and experiment with different films, and also learn to make the best use of my lenses in order to improve. Being primarily an SLR user, I am completely spoiled by using zoom lenses, and don't have a good feel about how to position myself for the best shots with a prime lens.
Finding the time to work on my technique is difficult, and setting aside time to do so is tough given the trade-offs of other priorities and preferences.
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FrankS
Registered User
Great ideas and advice given so far!
-learn the technical and practise
-develop an eye by looking at art and life critically
-be yourself and have fun
-learn the technical and practise
-develop an eye by looking at art and life critically
-be yourself and have fun
RML said:Read, experiment, take classes, delve into other forms of art, play with your kid, play with your partner, play with your friends, enjoy life, and shoot.
Most importantly, shoot. Good or bad, guess or perfect plan, with time or in a rush, snap the shutter and sort out the results later.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Like learning music ... first, learn all the notes ... then start writing your own arrangements!
Ash
Selflessly Self-involved
Taking photo's.
The more practice you have at anything, the more refined your methods become.
Of course, contact and critique from other photographers, strangers, etc help give you another outlook. Talking to more experienced photographers can help improve the skills and methods.
Well, I'd hope I've improved as a photographer over the past few years, and it's all down to that stuff above.
Formal tuition did nothing for me!
The more practice you have at anything, the more refined your methods become.
Of course, contact and critique from other photographers, strangers, etc help give you another outlook. Talking to more experienced photographers can help improve the skills and methods.
Well, I'd hope I've improved as a photographer over the past few years, and it's all down to that stuff above.
Formal tuition did nothing for me!
Jocko
Off With The Pixies
I agree with Turtle. I firmly believe that the camera and the subject are the enemies of the photographer. Both pose enormous threats to genuine creativity, which is nothing but the expression of the highest potential of the self. The former sustains the illusion that a particular means will produce results of a particular significance, and the latter that perceived reality exists or has meaning outside of the photographer.
Socrates gave us a one-word answer on exactly how to be a good photographer - arete (“virtue” and “quality”) - the realisation of intrinsic potential. Most photographs are meaningless because they are either imitations of photographs or pictures of things. Successful photography, like any art is never actually about the representation of objects, but rather the expression of our own meaning, vision, arete.
Which is why Duchamp’s “Fountain” will echo down the centuries and Tracy Emin’s bed is a pile of old blankets.
As always, knowledge of the self is the only knowledge that counts. One does not have to be “good” to be a good photographer, but a good photographer is necessarily virtuous in the Socratic sense. All photographs are self-portraits, so, I would say, the recipe for a good photographer is simply to think, learn, feel, dream and do as fully as is possible in every sphere, remembering that photography is merely the means, never the end. It’s a vision thing.
I think.
Cheers, Ian
Socrates gave us a one-word answer on exactly how to be a good photographer - arete (“virtue” and “quality”) - the realisation of intrinsic potential. Most photographs are meaningless because they are either imitations of photographs or pictures of things. Successful photography, like any art is never actually about the representation of objects, but rather the expression of our own meaning, vision, arete.
Which is why Duchamp’s “Fountain” will echo down the centuries and Tracy Emin’s bed is a pile of old blankets.
As always, knowledge of the self is the only knowledge that counts. One does not have to be “good” to be a good photographer, but a good photographer is necessarily virtuous in the Socratic sense. All photographs are self-portraits, so, I would say, the recipe for a good photographer is simply to think, learn, feel, dream and do as fully as is possible in every sphere, remembering that photography is merely the means, never the end. It’s a vision thing.
I think.
Cheers, Ian
Spyderman
Well-known
Finally a good question. Thank you lushd for starting this thread.
I agree with most of the things said here. I like street photography, but my biggest problem is getting close to people. So I'm trying... I put my 50 and 85 lenses away for a while to practice using 35 for peole. That forces me to get closer...
So maybe another advice is: find your weaknesses and do something against them!
I agree with most of the things said here. I like street photography, but my biggest problem is getting close to people. So I'm trying... I put my 50 and 85 lenses away for a while to practice using 35 for peole. That forces me to get closer...
So maybe another advice is: find your weaknesses and do something against them!
M4streetshooter
Tourist Thru Life
One of the biggerst issues is, pre-conception. This attacks every facet of everything we do..., photographically, if your out making images....pay attention to the ones you don't make and less attention to the ones you do make...Why? Because the ones you make you can see later...the ones you didn't make...
well memory fades fast...but in those images are the truths about your trigger mechanisms. If you pay attention to those triggers, then in time you will find that you won't be repeating the same thing over and over....and even that's ok if you approach it from a different mindset....
After you have a body of work going, lay the images out....arrange them to what makes sence to you and look for the pivitol image that just...doesn't seem to fit....that image is the one that leads to a new approach or direction....after some time, your image laid out will look like a crossword puzzle......
more later...don
well memory fades fast...but in those images are the truths about your trigger mechanisms. If you pay attention to those triggers, then in time you will find that you won't be repeating the same thing over and over....and even that's ok if you approach it from a different mindset....
After you have a body of work going, lay the images out....arrange them to what makes sence to you and look for the pivitol image that just...doesn't seem to fit....that image is the one that leads to a new approach or direction....after some time, your image laid out will look like a crossword puzzle......
more later...don
MartinP
Veteran
After a rather long lay-off from photography, except for holidays snaps, I am trying to get back in the swing of it.
I think making the gear (the film & the box it is in) do what you want, can be practised. Bulk-rolls and 35mm makes this economic, but I think that having one sort of film and clear aims to be achieved (eg. metering shadows maybe specifically with detail, or without detail, subject contre-jour or many other lighting styles, using motion or stopping motion etc etc) plus lots of notes, and thinking, will do that. It's just chemistry after all.
The artistic eye is where I have no clue about self-improvement - do art studies develop people, or lead to pre-conceptions ? I suppose that sort of area can be taught, but on ones own the necessary feedback is a bit absent - so then we have RFF !
And yes, my gallery here is still empty....
I think making the gear (the film & the box it is in) do what you want, can be practised. Bulk-rolls and 35mm makes this economic, but I think that having one sort of film and clear aims to be achieved (eg. metering shadows maybe specifically with detail, or without detail, subject contre-jour or many other lighting styles, using motion or stopping motion etc etc) plus lots of notes, and thinking, will do that. It's just chemistry after all.
The artistic eye is where I have no clue about self-improvement - do art studies develop people, or lead to pre-conceptions ? I suppose that sort of area can be taught, but on ones own the necessary feedback is a bit absent - so then we have RFF !
And yes, my gallery here is still empty....
Topdog1
Well-known
" What's the best way to become a better photographer?"
Shoot shoot shoot. Look at what the greats have done. Find inspiration in them. Shoot shoot shoot. Then shoot some more.
/Ira
Shoot shoot shoot. Look at what the greats have done. Find inspiration in them. Shoot shoot shoot. Then shoot some more.
/Ira
fishtek
Don
Defining "good" photography is a problem for every photographer. Some appreciate grain. Some worry about focus. Some concern theirselves overly with composition. Light, Texture, Form, and personal self-expectation play a role, too. Do you plan your images beforehand? Do you look for particular images? Do "grab" shots dominate?
I think the above paragraph is indicative of the range of thought processes that go into "taking" a photograph. "Making" a photograph is a whole 'nother thing. How many manipulate the image beforehand. In the darkroom? In the computer? Lots of ways to practice this process of photography.
The diversity is part of the interest, eh?
Regards!
Don
I think the above paragraph is indicative of the range of thought processes that go into "taking" a photograph. "Making" a photograph is a whole 'nother thing. How many manipulate the image beforehand. In the darkroom? In the computer? Lots of ways to practice this process of photography.
The diversity is part of the interest, eh?
Regards!
Don
FrankS
Registered User
Be true to yourself; follow your own vision. Take the pictures that you want to make.
You may never become famous, but it will have been better than spending your life trying to be something you are not (by imitating others.)
You may never become famous, but it will have been better than spending your life trying to be something you are not (by imitating others.)
canonetc
canonetc
Shoot until you realize you are wasting film, then shoot conservatively. Study the works of published "masters". Compare your compositions with theirs, but not necessarily the subject matter. Find a good mentor of "the Old School". Master the art of the completely manual camera, shoot with it often. Experiment with multiple formats (6x6 - 6x9 - 4x5). Discriminate between "shock-value" images and those that contain multiple levels of meaning. Reduce distractions. Watch less TV. Shoot a subject you normally have no interest in, or one that you outright dislike. Keep your camera with you at all times.
Chris
canonetc
Chris
canonetc
George Bonanno
Well-known
Topdog1 said:
I agree with Ira... "Shoot shoot shoot".
Keep in mind photography is a craft... not an art. If one gets into the mindset "photography is art"... then you are doomed.
Best,
George