What's The Deal With Leica R4 and R5's?

wjlapier

wjlapier

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Just browsing eBay the other day and came across a bunch of Leica R4's and R5's for what I thought were good prices. I know of the R6 and R6.2, but why do the other two sell for so much less? What am I missing here?
 
R4s (and R3s) have a reputation for poor reliability.

Haven't heard that with regards to R5s.

R6s and up have good reputations.
 
R4 and R5 are not reliable and repair them is very expensive.
I have now 2 x R4 non repairable (electronic with flaws ).
When new, I had already trouble with R5.
So the most reliable now (auto shutter) is R-E which is the one I use along with R6.
 
I believe the R4 was built by Minolta - I've owned 2 of them and they were both problematic - got rid of them quickly since I could not depend on them. R6 and 6.2 were made by Leica in Germany and were totally manual.
 
It is well known that some Leica R4's were unreliable. Later production cameras are said to avoid the initial production problems.

Should either a Leica R4 or R5 be operating properly now, it certainly is well past infant mortality problems and will probably be a good shooter. Keep your eyes open should you buy.

I've had two R5s, one I sold and the other I use, and there have been no reliability issues for me with either of them.
 
Any R4 that is still working is probably gonna still be working for a while. The early ones had electronic issues, but those cameras have either been repaired or died long ago. The real deal killer w/ these cameras is the shutter/mirror lag, and the loud shutter/mirror "ka thunk" sound that they make when you release the shutter. The R3 cameras are better in this regard, but those cameras are seriously big and heavy.

I learned ages ago to just shoot the excellent Leica R lenses on Nikons w/ adapters. In fact, I have an R 90 2.0 Summicron on my N8008s right now, and it's a wonderful combination. The Nikon has AE, AE lock, motorized film advance, a bright viewfinder w/ easily replaceable focus screens, takes AA batteries, offers spot, center weighted and matrix metering, a top shutter speed of 1/8000, and features focus confirmation in the viewfinder. Leica never made a SLR this good, and I paid the princely sum of $40 for it. The lens, well, it was a lot more. Only a Leicaflex comes close to being a decent camera to shoot R lenses with. Those are built like a tank and a lot of fun to shoot.
 
Steve M. said:
Any R4 that is still working is probably gonna still be working for a while. The early ones had electronic issues, but those cameras have either been repaired or died long ago.
Click to expand...

I read this all the time, but it isn't true. I bought three R4s over the past three years, all fully functional when I received them, but the electronics failed on all of them a few months later.
 
Another agreement - if they are working today they are not the problem bodies - I had an early R4 and it had electronic issues, but later ones I had were fine. Also contrary to some reports Minolta didn't make them. Leica made the R4 -7 - they were based on one of the Minolta body designs though. The R7 had a thorough internal revamp using Motorola electronics and an increase in base height amongst other changes.
I believe the major problem with this series is that they are difficult if not impossible to repair if electronics or shutters go
 
Shac said:
... Also contrary to some reports Minolta didn't make them. Leica made the R4 -7 - they were based on one of the Minolta body designs though...
Click to expand...

Of course they didn't. If they did, they'd work. This miss-information is put out there to pass the blame onto a different mfg.
 
The R6 and R6.2 are mechanical - only the meter requires a small battery. Otherwise, no electronic functions to fail. They are robust cameras. Weight and size similar to an M6. As reflected in the pricing, many prefer the R6 and R6.2 over the electronic models.

Similarly, the Leicaflex standards, Leicaflex SL and SL2 models only require battery for metering. They are heavier. The Standards do not have TTL metering; the others do. Many shooters enjoy the steadiness and grip of these cameras together with the bright, uncluttered viewfinders and simple operation. An acquired taste for sure, not for everyone!

These certainly are not "modern" cameras, and weren't even considered "modern" when first offered by Leica. And they are not light weight cameras, especially the Leicaflexes. They are robust, basic film shooters that many find appealing for the ergonomics, haptics, and bright viewfinders.

Unlike the R lenses, which have been rising in price due to increasing demand by users of Leica SL (and even M) digital, along with Sony, Nikon, Canon etc users, the R body prices are relatively stable and modest.
 
The R series Leica SLRs were a collaboration between Minolta and Leica, with Minolta contributing the electronics, and Leica the hardware to use them. Early R3s were built in Germany, then production switched to Portugal for the rest of the R3s, along with the R4. Production returned to Germany with the R5, and so they switched the logo from the left side of the body to the right (as you face the front of the camera).

The R6 and R6.2 are as stated totally mechanical cameras, with only the meter circuit requiring a battery. The R6.2 is an upgraded model with the addition of a 1/2000 speed, and other performance enhancements to the shutter.

The R7 goes back to electronics (much improved) with five exposure modes to shoot in, and retains the Selective/Integrated (Spot/Averaging) meter controls, only this time staked to a particular mode instead of being turned on and off by the user independent of the mode, such as Aperture Preferred/Selective and Aperture Preferred/Integrated. So the modes are:
M/S
AP/S
AP/I
SP/I
P/I

My R3 has a meter issue where it works fine in Integrated, but not in Selective. My R7 however works fine in all modes, with only a slight variance (maybe 1/2 a stop) in performance from one mode to the next.

Speaking of Minolta electronics, I always tell folks who want to buy an X-700 to get at least three of them, because they will eventually fail. That's why they are so cheap now days.

PF
 
another way to look at them,
is that the R4's and R5's are SO CHEAP
it does not matter if they break.

Turn it into a planter or night light or ....
and buy another.
 
farlymac said:
Speaking of Minolta electronics, I always tell folks who want to buy an X-700 to get at least three of them, because they will eventually fail. That's why they are so cheap now days.

PF
Click to expand...

When an X-700 (or X500/570 or X300/370) fails, it is almost always a capacitor that is easily replaced. Otherwise, the electronics are quite reliable.

- Murray
 
ellisson said:
The R6 and R6.2 are mechanical - only the meter requires a small battery. Otherwise, no electronic functions to fail. They are robust cameras.
Click to expand...

The self-timer is also electronic. I have 2 R6s with non-functioning self-timers.

The R lenses are fantastic, but finding bodies to use them on natively is getting harder as the cameras age.

Marty
 
R4's over serial number 1.600.000 have different circuitry and should not be prone to failure as the lower serial numbers COULD be. I've owned a bunch of them from the lower numbers and used them often and hard and never had a problem. I believe that this is one of the self-perpetuating stories that come from people who have never owned the camera (except for the earlier poster who has two dead cameras) but have heard the stories so they must be true.
 
rybolt said:
I believe that this is one of the self-perpetuating stories that come from people who have never owned the camera (except for the earlier poster who has two dead cameras) but have heard the stories so they must be true.
Click to expand...
As I said above, I had three R4s and the electronic failed on all of them. That's a 100% failure rate and I didn't hear about it, I experienced it.
 
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