What's the real diff between a Voigtlander and a Leica?

[Larss]

Cosina actualiy makes the Epson R-D1 and also makes Richo and Zeiss cameras so I mean the last Cameraproducer that makes cameras for films!

 

[hth]

I faced this dilemma a couple of years ago. I wanted to get a Mamiya 7ii to shoot big slides. 6x7 makes for some really nice ones!

I feared that film might go away, so why put all that money into the camera (and a couple of lenses)? In the end, I thought, why not enjoy it while I still can? A few years from now it might not be possible. So I took the plunge and got the camera with the thinking that I would shoot 100 rolls each year for 10 years.

For the first 2 years I have probably been at around 50+ rolls per year, and it also gets used for B&W now. I have not regretted my choice.

/Håkan

But then I think when Leica is the last cameraproducer that makes cameras for films now makes digital cameras how long can I then bay films? And why spend a lot of money on somthing that I maby only can use for maby 5 years and then agein must spend a lot for a DRF?

 

[rxmd]

The Leica is meant to be infinitely and easily rebuildable.

Is it, really?

It's rebuildable, yes, but only as long as you get parts from Leica. If they don't have parts anymore, they won't touch it - on a German forum there was a complaint by a user with a damaged 1950s goggled Summaron that he sent to Solms, only to receive it back as it was with a statement that they won't touch the lens because they are lacking some spare parts, and if they accidentally damage something they won't have means of repair. This sounds neither infinitely nor easily rebuildable to me, if the equipment maker itself refuses to rebuild something.

Also, with the shift towards electronics, this gets even worse. I can't see anyone "easily rebuilding" an M5 or any later model without getting readymade circuit boards from Leica.

Philipp

 

[photogdave]

Plenty of brands are still making film cameras: Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Hasselblad, Mamiya, Olympus, Cossina, Zeiss, Leica are ones that come to mind.

 

[RayPA]

Frankly, I'm always very suspect of threads of this nature. I know exactly where the contents of this thread will end up. 😉 But I'll add my $.02 on the shutter noise: I have an M7 and had a R2. I wouldn't say the R2 is louder, but it is definitely a different more noticeable sound, mechanical and almost crunchy. It sounds like what it is: metal. The Leica's shutter sounds like what it is: cloth.

 

[jaapv]

Cosina actualiy makes the Epson R-D1 and also makes Richo and Zeiss cameras so I mean the last Cameraproducer that makes cameras for films!

Ah-I see what you mean- camera's for films exclusively. In that case you may be right, at least on the rangefinder front. Or does the Red Flag factory from China still exist? 😛 On the other hand Leica has been building professional mid-format camera's in 1998 besides marketing a number of Japanese fixed lens models.

 

[Larss]

Nikon only makes the F6 now for films and Canon has stoped ther production on film cameras and only produces the EOS 1V now (I head) Pentax and Olympus will soon go the same way I think!

 

[VinceC]

>>It sounds like what it is: metal. The Leica's shutter sounds like what it is: cloth.<<

I don't have a dog in the Leica/Bessa discussion. But I did recently have the shutter of an old Nikon SP replaced ... original was cloth, replacement was metal foil. There was no difference in the sound (comparing it to an old and new Nikon S3 -- both cloth-- as well as a Nikon F -- metal foil -- with the mirror locked up).

If I'm not mistaken, shutter brakes and damping cause most of noise we hear from a camera shutter.

 

[RayPA]

>>It sounds like what it is: metal. The Leica's shutter sounds like what it is: cloth.<<

I don't have a dog in the Leica/Bessa discussion. But I did recently have the shutter of an old Nikon SP replaced ... original was cloth, replacement was metal foil. There was no difference in the sound (comparing it to an old and new Nikon S3 -- both cloth-- as well as a Nikon F -- metal foil -- with the mirror locked up).

If I'm not mistaken, shutter brakes and damping cause most of noise we hear from a camera shutter.

Well I had a dog, but I got rid of it. 🙂 I'll rephrase: The Bessa sounded like metal and has metal shutter blades. The Leica sounds like cloth and has a cloth shutter.

.

 

[jaapv]

Current Canon film camera's : Eos 300V, Eos 300X, Eos 33V, Eos 30date, Eos 3, Eos 1V.
Current Nikon film camera's: F55,F75,F5,F6,F100.
Current Olympus film camera's: OM2000, OM3Ti,OM4Ti.
These camera are all produced and available today (see the web-sites)
And these are just the SLR's of these brands. Listing all the compacts woul be a lot of work....

 

[phototone]

Current Canon film camera's : Eos 300V, Eos 300X, Eos 33V, Eos 30date, Eos 3, Eos 1V.
Current Nikon film camera's: F55,F75,F5,F6,F100.
Current Olympus film camera's: OM2000, OM3Ti,OM4Ti.
These camera are all produced and available today (see the web-sites)
And these are just the SLR's of these brands. Listing all the compacts woul be a lot of work....

You are incorrect in regards to the Nikon film cameras. The only currently "made by Nikon" film camera is the F6. The others are just remaining stock being sold off.

The Nikon FM10 is still current, but it is not made by Nikon, rather it is made for Nikon by Cosina.

I believe the OM2000 is/was actually made by Cosina. My vendor shows no film cameras made by Olympus other than point-n-shoots.

You can still buy some Minolta film cameras brand new, but they haven't been built in a couple of years, or more.

Probably the Vivitar and Phoenix SLR's are still avalable, but they are also made by Cosina.

 

[lifevicarious]

Hey everyone!

I wanted to thank everyone for all the comments they made in regards to my question. And just to let you know, based on this I decided to go with a R3A and the 40 1.4 SC. I purchased it from Stephen at Cameraquest today and should have it in a few days!

Again, I really appreciate all the thorough comments. It greatly helped me in my decision!

- Christian

 

[Socke]

Christian, I´m sure you´ll have lots of fun with it!

 

[BrianPhotog]

You are incorrect in regards to the Nikon film cameras. The only currently "made by Nikon" film camera is the F6. The others are just remaining stock being sold off.

The Nikon FM10 is still current, but it is not made by Nikon, rather it is made for Nikon by Cosina.

I believe the OM2000 is/was actually made by Cosina. My vendor shows no film cameras made by Olympus other than point-n-shoots.

You can still buy some Minolta film cameras brand new, but they haven't been built in a couple of years, or more.

Probably the Vivitar and Phoenix SLR's are still avalable, but they are also made by Cosina.

Isn't the FM3a still in production by Nikon ? The last great mechanical camera out there 🙂

 

[terrafirmanada]

Cheers, Let us know how you like it.

 

[Socke]

Isn't the FM3a still in production by Nikon ? The last great mechanical camera out there 🙂

If you believe what Nikon says it is out of production. F6 and FM10 are in production and other bodies are sold as long as stocks last.

 

[luketrash]

If they were cars, the Voigtlander would be a Toyota, and the Leica a Mercedes’. The Toyota makes more sense but you would rather be seen in the Merc

I'm not sure this is the perfect analogy.. The way I see it, the Bessa is un underdog that strives to be as good. I'd compare the R3A to a Volvo car, whereas the Leicas are BMWs.

The Leicas have the more pleasing aesthetics, whereas the Bessas are a little 'boxy' haha.. Both are pretty durable, but the BMW clearly has a higher standard of fit-n-finish.

I was in the same boat as lifevicarious... I wanted to seperate the myths from reality. I managed to handle a few Leica M6's in Denver. I was expecting a spritual awakening, given all of the talk online. While it is a quality piece, the hype left me feeling underwhelmed. Not because the Leica was bad. But just because most other cameras are 'nearly as good.'

The shutter sound was subdued, but still noisier than any leaf shutter camera I have ever used. My $5.00 Yashica E35 GS is quieter than a Leica (until the 'clunk! zzzzzzrrrrippp' when I advance the film.)

I imagine the first sendaway-for-repairs on an M7 or M6 would cost as much as I got my R3A for. I love quality stuff, but usually end up with the cheap knockoff. It's just how I am.

I have not felt the least bit jaded with the R3A yet. People knock it's quality, but there's so much metal on this thing where there doesn't really need to be for the price, that it's not even funny ;-) I'm still finding my pace, as I've only put about 6 rolls of film through mine.

Loading it hasn't been an issue since it's the same as my other SLR cameras basically. In fact, the little grabber tooth on the takeup reel helps out quite a bit.

Mine came with the trigger winder and lens hood for the 40mm lens, so it has felt a bit 'bulky' to me. But last night I stripped it down to body+lens with no hood, and it truly is compact compared to any of my SLR cameras.

I ordered some cheap 43mm filter kit on ebay and plan to use a UV filter in place of the protruding lens hood, and may take the triggerwinder off, even though I like the feel of carrying it vertically. Oh, the trigger winder easily makes the camera as heavy as a Leica M6 for your 1/8th second shots 😉