What's the skinny on the Canon VI-T?

[hoot]

Well,

spent a wonderful summer with my Konica IIIa, but sometimes a 50mm lens is simply not enough.

I'm looking to use something along the lines of a 50mm / 21mm combo. Since I find that I always prefocus the lens, then completely disregard the rangefinder patch when composing and waiting for the "decisive moment", the idea of using the Ikodot greatly appeals to me. Both eyes open and visible, no barriers between you and your subjects. And when you *do* need the rangefinder, it's there in all its precise 1.5x magnification glory.

The VI-L isn't really an option because I don't like removing the camera from my eye in between shots. So it looks like the VI-T is perfect.

This is where you come in. To those of you who have worked with the VI-T before, what does this camera feel like in practice? Is the viewfinder really as "squinty" as they say? Does it make your eyes hurt? What about the general feel of the camera? Is it user-friendly? Is it precise? Does the film advance stand a bit of abuse? Do parts feel like they're going to fall apart any moment? Is the shutter speed wheel easy to use? Are the shutter speeds reliable? Is the film rewind easy to use, or is it a finger-killer like that of the Konica IIIa and the Olympus XA? Before I make this investment, it's important for me to know what to expect.

Also, lenses. 50mm and 21mm. Multi-coated. Not too prone to flare. Precise and sharp. Fast. Good bokeh. Good for excellent-quality big enlargements. Your recommendations are welcomed.

Thanks to everyone in advance.

 

[xayraa33]

The Canon VIT is a rugged , well made camera, as good as any Canon LTM RF made before it and a little after (Canon P), some people say the 7 & 7s are a bit less well made, but ones I seen look to be as well made as any LTM Canon. These Leica thread mount cameras, were "professional" grade cameras that competed with Leica & Nikon in the marketplace. The later Canons with leaf shutter and Canonets were more for the "amateur "snapshot taker, and priced as such. The VIT viewfinder is not squinty,the 50mm view is 1:1 and has automovable parallex framelines, along with the VIL, this was the first Canon to have this feature. The problem is that after 46 years, these cameras (VIT, VIL, P) have some reflected flare and ghost images in the viewfinder, this varies from camera to camera, & on the VI series it only affects the 50mm/100mm view. I find the trigger wind to be ok with short lenses, awkward with lenses longer than 50mm, and a nightmare for tripod use.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

The viewfinder of the VI-T is not squinty at all. I do not have a problem with the Vt as either. The older bottom-loading Canon's are "squinty". The V and VI series have enough eye-relief for my glasses. The VI has a 1x finder for 50mm+100mm, bright-lines, and parallax correction. The V is a little easier to see edge-to-edge with its 0.7x for 50mm. The film advance chain mechanism looks like it could be used to bring down trees. I have no problems with the rewind. It is a crank-style rewind that folds into the camera.

Be prepared to pick up the camera and have it CLA'd. That will run another $130 or so.

If you want a multi-coated lens in LTM, you are narrowing things to the Cosina/Voigtlander line. Most "vintage" LTM lenses are single-coated. Multi-coating appeared after most RF's had been discontinued.

I have not used the cameras on a tripod. The knob wind on the Vt and VIt is for tripod use. It's "serviceable".

 

[VictorM.]

Since you ignore the rangefinder patch and you want a 21, external finders are what you need. They aren't squinty.

 

[back alley]

my canon lll would have been perfect for this application.

joe

 

[jlw]

For a long time the VI-T was my absolute favorite shooter. I owned one, sold it, realized I couldn't get along without it, and traded away a Leica M4-P to get another one. 'Nuf said?

Its construction and finish are beautiful and very, very solid; controls are well-placed; and the trigger wind (although an aquired taste) is fully debugged and rugged.

The main drawbacks are in the viewfinder area. The eyepiece is large enough to use easily with glasses, the rangefinder is very precise, and overall brightness is good, but it's still not really up to the best modern RF standards. The framelines are reflected, not projected as on the 7 and 7s, so the finder isn't quite as contrasty and the framelines don't show up as clearly as on a modern camera. Having the finder optics cleaned willl help some, but it'll never be as crisp as, say, a Bessa R3a.

Also -- and this is the reason my VI-T fell away from being my favorite shooter -- the viewfinder has a lot of minus diopter built into it -- more than the P or 7, for example. Since I'm nearsighted and need minus correction in my eyeglasses, as I got older and my eye lost some of its focusing range, I found it could no longer make the adjustment needed to focus the combined diopter of my glasses plus the VI-T's eyepiece. Moral: try before you buy.

(Actually, as my eyes continue to get worse, I find I now can almost see comfortably through the VI-T without glasses! So in another year or so it may be back to being my favorite shooter again...)

Another tip: To get the most out of the trigger winder, you really need a grip that mounts in the tripod socket. It lets you hold the camera more steady at your eye as you advance by absorbing the force in a straight line to the trigger, rather than at an angle as you have to do when holding the camera without a grip. It also makes shooting verticals easier by providing more support area for the camera. Canon made a beautiful knurled-metal grip for these cameras, but if you can't find one, the cylindrical Voigtlander grip also works well.

The top-mounted advance knob works well for tripod-mounted shots, letting you advance the film carefully without the risk of throwing off your aim. If you do a lot of tripod-mount shooting, you'll want to try to find the beautifully-finished Canon Camera Holder Vt (make sure you get the one for the trigger-wind cameras; they also made a lever-wind version that won't work on the t's because the tripod screw is on the other end.) The camera holder re-centers the tripod mount so it's right under the lens, and lets you mount the camera vertically or horizontally. It's also a dazzling bit of eye candy with its deeply glossy black enamel finish.

You mentioned you like to use a 21mm lens, so one more quirk: I have a 21mm f/2.8 Avenon (thanks again, Mike!) and it won't quite work on the VI-T; it goes onto the camera, but there's a baffle plate under the rangefinder coupling arm that drags on the rear lens barrel as you focus. I would guess that slower 21s would be no problem, but again, try before you buy is a good motto here.

 

[hoot]

the viewfinder has a lot of minus diopter built into it.

I think that's what some reviewers meant when they referred to it as "squinty". Reading stuff like that is rather discouraging. I wish I could try before buying, but the chances of finding this camera locally are slim.

Thanks to everyone for their responses.

 

[Mark W]

Just a point to think about a Canon FD 20mm f2.8 fits quite well on any of the LTM cameras with the addition of a Canon mount Adapter B you retain infinity focus (granted using zone focusing but with a 20mm so what!) Pick up a nice 21mm finder and you have it made. Super Spectral Coating 72mm filter threads And the great Canon Fd optic's

I use my 24mm f2.0 nFD on my Leica If RD all the time looking for a decent 25mm finder to go with it. I also use my 28mm f2.8 nFD the same way but I have a killer nice Canon Black and chrome 28mm finder for it.

 

[jlw]

I think that's what some reviewers meant when they referred to it as "squinty". Reading stuff like that is rather discouraging. I wish I could try before buying, but the chances of finding this camera locally are slim.

How old are you? (asking only figuratively, of course) And how good is your vision?

If you're youthful enough that your eyes accommodate easily to different distances, you won't have any trouble using the finder in the VI-T.

I'm in a rotten position in that I've always been nearsighted (requiring a minus-diopter eyeglasses correction) and now I'm old enough that I'm starting to have age-related presbyopia (requiring a plus-diopter correction.) I've got progressive eyeglass lenses (aka no-line bifocals) that incorporate both corrections. But the minus diopter for the distance-vision part, combined with the minus-diopter in the VI-T finder, makes up 'way too much minus for my eyes to handle.

I can see through the camera just fine if I use the plus-diopter part of my eyeglasses -- but that part is so far down the lens that it's uncomfortable to view through the camera at that angle.

People with less abnormal vision probably will have no trouble at all, as used to be the case for me!

I suspect that when reviewers have described the finder view as "squinty," they were referring to the reflective frameline system -- which, as we've discussed above, isn't as contrasty or as evenly illuminated as in a camera with the more modern projected frameline system. Sometimes, when light strikes the reflecting surfaces a certain way, you get the same sort of view as you do when you're squinting your naked eye.

But again, many people don't have any problem with this.

If you can't arrange to try before you buy, at least buy from a vendor who will give you a return privilege. Then, if you find that you just can't tolerate the viewfinder system (or that you happened to get an example with a fogged-up viewfinder) you aren't stuck with it.

 

[hoot]

jlw,

thanks for your thoughtful response.

I'm 25 and have 20/20 (perfect) vision, and want to keep the latter that way. Just as it's harmful for one's eyesight to peer through a strong pair of eyeglasses when one doesn't need them, wouldn't using a viewfinder with minus diopter harm one's vision in the long run? I've been switching cameras like underwear lately in my quest to find one I can stick with for many years, and if the VI-T turns out to be The One, I'll be using it a heck of a lot, including the viewfinder itself (despite also getting that external finder). My eyesight is, of course, extremely valuable to me, and I wish to take no risks with it whatsoever.

As for those framelines, I guess it's just a question of getting a VI-T that hasn't seen too much abuse.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

If the finder eyepiece is a problem, the glass in it could be swapped out. I have not used the VI-t enough to judge if it is worse than the Vt. The latter is not a problem for my extreme nearsighted eyes.

JLW: Didn't you have the same problem with the Canon 7 and swap it out with the neutral glass from a Kodak Retina?

 

[jlw]

JLW: Didn't you have the same problem with the Canon 7 and swap it out with the neutral glass from a Kodak Retina?

Yes (thank you) but there are two reasons I wasn't able to deal with the VI-T the same way:

-- The diopter in the VI-T eyepiece is even stronger.

-- The diameter of the VI-T eyepiece is a bit smaller, so a Retina glass (even if I could find another one) wouldn't fit. I suppose there's something somewhere that would, but I haven't been concerned enough to institute a search.

Lately I've been thinking that what I should do is buy a pair of "camera glasses" chosen specifically for viewing ease through my various older cameras: I'd just go to Walgreen's and stand in front of the rack of generic eyewear trying various diopters until I hit one that works well.

Message for all you young people: Unless you're Mick Jagger, getting old stinks. I suggest you avoid it as long as you can.

 

[airds]

Mount Adapter B

Mount Adapter B

the LTM cameras with the addition of a Canon mount Adapter B

Don't supppose anybody's got a spare or a source? 🙂

Thanks

 

[back alley]

i was thinking the same thing.

joe

 

[dexdog]

These adapters show up on eBay occasionally, usually selling for around $50. I saw one a few weeks ago, and considered bidding it, but did not.

 

[dexdog]

Esteemed moderator, Canon lens mount converter B

http://cgi.ebay.com/Canon-lens-moun...541654657QQcategoryZ30059QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[back alley]

thanks for the heads up.

i put it on my watch list but then discovered the seller only ships to the states.

joe

 

[dexdog]

Maybe that is a sign from above that I ought to buy it. I have several Canon FD lenses, including a 21mm, and it might be fun to play around with these lenses on the P, VI-T or 7s. Alternately, I guess that you could have it shipped to a friend in the US, and they could send it to you.

 

[ScottS]

These adapters show up on eBay occasionally, usually selling for around $50. I saw one a few weeks ago, and considered bidding it, but did not.

Be on the lookout for hidden adapters (i.e. attached to cheap lenses). I got one for just under $50 a few months back that happened to have an LTM-cine adapter on one end (don't have a use for that one) and a Komura 105mm FD lens on the other. The adapter was not mentioned in the auction title but was mentioned in the description. I think it was somewhere around $45 for the whole package, including the Komura lens, both adapters, and a Tamron lens case.

Scogtt

 

[hoot]

Okay, I've just handled a Canon VI-T "in the flesh". Peering through the finder felt quite normal; nothing like peering through a strong pair of glasses. The rangefinder patch is circular and its edges are fuzzy, but it is nice and contrasty even in dark, low-contrast situations.