Bill Clark
Veteran
I believe 187718 s a Leica III.
My IIIa has 1/1000 exposure available. This distinguishes the III from the IIIa.
Check here:
https://www.cameraquest.com/ltmnum.htm
My IIIa has 1/1000 exposure available. This distinguishes the III from the IIIa.
Check here:
https://www.cameraquest.com/ltmnum.htm
yes, I think that's correct.
I thought the II was the last one to not have lugs however...
I thought the II was the last one to not have lugs however...
Bill Clark
Veteran
Yes I agree it should have lugs.
Oh well, that's what makes collecting these jewels interesting.
My IIIa doesn't have the covers over the shutter curtains!
Oh well, that's what makes collecting these jewels interesting.
My IIIa doesn't have the covers over the shutter curtains!
peterm1
Veteran
A possibility that occurs to me is that it might be a factory upgrade of an earlier camera. In that era Leitz offered a service whereby an earlier camera could have certain upgrades performed to make it function like a later model. And sometimes this involved changes to body parts (like top plates) and I believe, serial numbers.
For example, I used to own a lovely 111a that had been upgraded in the 1950s to give it the flash sync characteristics of a 111f, including not only a flash sync port but also an adjustable collar around the shutter button, like the 111f models, to change the flash discharge time for different flash bulbs. (Some bulbs were slower burning and so had to be triggered earlier so they were at full strength by the time the shutter opened). This is but one example of the sort of quite extensive changes Leitz very kindly made available (at a price) to their clients.
For example, I used to own a lovely 111a that had been upgraded in the 1950s to give it the flash sync characteristics of a 111f, including not only a flash sync port but also an adjustable collar around the shutter button, like the 111f models, to change the flash discharge time for different flash bulbs. (Some bulbs were slower burning and so had to be triggered earlier so they were at full strength by the time the shutter opened). This is but one example of the sort of quite extensive changes Leitz very kindly made available (at a price) to their clients.
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
187718 is indeed a III, both by the serial number, and because it lacks 1/1000. And 176030 shows up as a IIIa in the listings. No problem there--nothing unusual about Leitz running a batch of an earlier model with serial numbers higher than an later one. But why no lugs? I thought about the possibility of an upgrade from a II, but then it ought to have the serial number of a II. I don't think Leitz changed the serial number when converting to a later model. They forgot to put the lugs on? Nahh. Someone ordered it special without lugs? But why would they? Too silly.
I think it must be cobbled together from parts, with a IIIa top plate put onto a II body.
David Hughes
David Hughes
A lot can happen to a camera in 80 years and being a modular construction it's not difficult to see how. And there was a period from 1939 onwards when parts were just not available from Germany and so were salvaged from other damaged cameras or even the shop window dummies. Add to that people who like tinkering with cameras and the result could be anything....
Regards, David
Regards, David
Mr_Flibble
In Tabulas Argenteas Refero
Sometimes features were not implemented right from the start of a new camera series. Some new features were introduced gradually.
Same thing concerning the disappearance of the screws holding the top cover to the body cover in the If/IIf/IIIf series. We haven't pinned down from which point on this happened.
Same thing concerning the disappearance of the screws holding the top cover to the body cover in the If/IIf/IIIf series. We haven't pinned down from which point on this happened.
Dralowid
Michael
Bill Clark
Veteran
Could there have been a period of transition where both the II and III cameras were made at the same time? Until parts got used up? Perhaps some left over parts found there way onto what became III cameras?
Just a thought. After a cup of coffee my brain works a little, very little though!
Just a thought. After a cup of coffee my brain works a little, very little though!
Mr_Flibble
In Tabulas Argenteas Refero
Good point, it's logical that existing batches of parts were used up first.
There is some variation between the shape of the frame around the VF amongst the III/IIIa top covers as well as I recall.
There is some variation between the shape of the frame around the VF amongst the III/IIIa top covers as well as I recall.
Thanks everyone. This history of these cameras is very interesting.
Is there any significance to the vulcanite? Other Barnacks I've seen thru the IIIc have different material, up until the IIIf where it became the vulcanite like the original M3.
I suppose this camera was serviced at some point and got new covering and/or shell.
It's the oldest Barnack I have yet appears to be in perfect operating order in every way. Most that come my way need service in one way or another but not this one.
Is there any significance to the vulcanite? Other Barnacks I've seen thru the IIIc have different material, up until the IIIf where it became the vulcanite like the original M3.
I suppose this camera was serviced at some point and got new covering and/or shell.
It's the oldest Barnack I have yet appears to be in perfect operating order in every way. Most that come my way need service in one way or another but not this one.
02Pilot
Malcontent
Given the later style vulcanite, I guessing they just yanked the lugs when it was recovered.
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Dralowid
Michael
It would be easy enough to see if this were the case by looking inside.
The shell never had lugs...easy to check that.
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
Just maybe it was specially ordered with no lugs for ease in jacket pocket toting ?
Or maybe the body shell was replaced at one time, with one from a Leica II model and the tech just drilled it for the slow speed dial?
Or maybe the body shell was replaced at one time, with one from a Leica II model and the tech just drilled it for the slow speed dial?