What's wrong with Hasselblad?

[thegman]

Hasselblad has -

Killed off the V camera sysyem (6x6)
Created the "Lunar" camera
And now they have created the "Stellar" camera

Conclusion: Hasselblad has gone insane. 😱

I don't know what sales were like of the V system, but I assume they were not great. Companies like Hasselblad have a problem in that cameras they made 50 years ago are perfectly usable now. This diminishes the market for new ones fairly siginificantly, I mean, how many of us have bought a brand new film Leica or Hasselblad?

I don't like Hasselblad's new cameras much more than anyone else, but they feel they need to do something. Frankly, they'd probably do a lot better making medium format film cameras like the GF670, or Fotoman, or Alpa, but 'strategy' dictates they make a digital camera and fail shortly afterwards.

 

[GaryLH]

For those who mentioned dslr's as the possible cause, I think I have to agree.

Given the size of the hasselblad w/ digital back the new ff dslr like the d800 from Nikon or similar from Canon probably was the nail in the coffin that started the fall in sales. Their answer was a bigger then ff size sensor dslr of their own. Not sure how good it was compared to the competition or how well it sold. They may have put too much money into r&d of this product..

But rumors like this one about a 75 mp ff sensor certainly does not help them as well.

http://photorumors.com/2013/07/23/rumors-canon-is-testing-a-75mp-pro-dslr-camera/

Gary

 

[aizan]

does anyone have any real numbers on the medium format market? if hasselblad's sales turn out to be down, i would blame the fact that they closed their system more than anything else. full frame sensors just don't have the microcontrast, depth of color, smoothness of tonality, or same level of detail as mfdb.

 

[YYV_146]

does anyone have any real numbers on the medium format market? if hasselblad's sales turn out to be down, i would blame the fact that they closed their system more than anything else. full frame sensors just don't have the microcontrast, depth of color, smoothness of tonality, or same level of detail as mfdb.

I gather that you haven't played around with the very latest crop of FF bodies. They're not quite up to Phase IQ or H5D standards, but a D800e can handily beat most older MF backs in terms of dynamic range and detail. With Sony's rumored 32mp APS-C sensor and Canon's 75mp FF, I expect the edge MF has to disappear in a year or two. 645 sensor development is money-short, while Sony and Canon pour billions into making better 135 sensors every year.

Of course, the DOF advantage will still be around, but I doubt that many will pay the premium of a $20,000 MF back over a $3000 DSLR for it.

 

[Steve Bellayr]

According to Wiki- Hasselblad is owned by a private venture company: Ventizz as of 2011.

 

[brbo]

They should start working on a (relatively) cheap 20MP (non-croped) digital back for V and be ready when last color film from Kodak/Fuji is discontinued.

Unfortunately, they will probably be out of business by then.

 

[aizan]

I gather that you haven't played around with the very latest crop of FF bodies. They're not quite up to Phase IQ or H5D standards, but a D800e can handily beat most older MF backs in terms of dynamic range and detail. With Sony's rumored 32mp APS-C sensor and Canon's 75mp FF, I expect the edge MF has to disappear in a year or two. 645 sensor development is money-short, while Sony and Canon pour billions into making better 135 sensors every year.

Of course, the DOF advantage will still be around, but I doubt that many will pay the premium of a $20,000 MF back over a $3000 DSLR for it.

the commercial and amateur photographers who can afford mfdb are paying for the best image quality to stay at the top of the game. people have been saying ff will edge out mfdb because they have so much more money going into sensor development for years, and it hasn't happened. internet arguments about my sensor is (or will be) better than your sensor doesn't change reality. so until the comparison of old mfdb < new ff shifts to new mdfb < new ff, i'd assume that things will stay the same as usual.

 

[thegman]

does anyone have any real numbers on the medium format market? if hasselblad's sales turn out to be down, i would blame the fact that they closed their system more than anything else. full frame sensors just don't have the microcontrast, depth of color, smoothness of tonality, or same level of detail as mfdb.

According to Forbes, it's about 6000 units a year:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/marcbab...-the-medium-format-market-on-its-own-terms/2/

Including the pinhole cameras, and Travelwide etc. I would not be surprised if 4x5 film cameras sell better than that... Each camera sells for a huge amount though, although we can only guess at the development cost.

As much as I like the idea of medium format digital, it's hard to imagine it surviving for much longer. Any person with skill and time can make a 4x5 camera, and they do, but the investment I imagine will be too much to bear to keep making medium format sensors.

 

[thegman]

They should start working on a (relatively) cheap 20MP (non-croped) digital back for V and be ready when last color film from Kodak/Fuji is discontinued.

Unfortunately, they will probably be out of business by then.

That would be pretty cool, but the IQ180 is $48,000, and that is a crop back, at 6x4.5. The cost of making a 6x6 digital back I imagine would be a lot more. And the best you can hope for a section of a tiny market.

I would imagine medium format film will be around a lot longer than medium format digital.

It is a shame though, I did very nearly buy a cheapo digital medium format back, it was old as hell, tethered to a PC etc. but just a really cool device.

 

[giellaleafapmu]

Everybody is talking Digital MF here but given that there is almost no market for it probably they should not try to produce a MF digital back... When digital appeared Nikon was producing film cameras and they switched, they didn't look how to reinvent a market for film cameras, that's why they are still around as strong as always. They did collaborate with Sony, Kodak and others for their sensosr but they didn't add a wooden grip to somebody's else camera. Hasselblad could very well move to a lxuury small camera market as they try buy they should this with sensible products. I cannot believe that with Zeiss and Sony collaboration and their tradition the best thing they can produce is the Lunar.

GLF

 

[clayne]

With Sony's rumored 32mp APS-C sensor and Canon's 75mp FF, I expect the edge MF has to disappear in a year or two. 645 sensor development is money-short, while Sony and Canon pour billions into making better 135 sensors every year.

Of course, the DOF advantage will still be around, but I doubt that many will pay the premium of a $20,000 MF back over a $3000 DSLR for it.

Then they'll be right on time to match what 6x6 film can already provide. Amazing.

Anyways, Hasselblad - this is what happens when you let MBA and VC types drive the car.

 

[louisb]

I think Hasselblad has really missed a trick.

A far better partner for them would have been Sigma with its Foveon sensors.

Firstly, the sensor alone would have been a differentiating factor with respect to the competition. Secondly, the powerful IQ of the sensor is much more in keeping with the high end nature of Hasselblad digital imaging.

The tie up with Sony is very weird although I suppose there is a common link with Carl Zeiss (or should I say Cosina Voigtlander?) but otherwise I think it is a poor product management decision.

LouisB

 

[Rangefinderfreak]

Well guys, I am a hassy user since 1968... (My 500c has a serial number CR 32975)
I was talkin to a guy from HASSELBLAD on photokina - a grey haired old guy like me, "O B, product manager) He said: we made some very serious mistakes, one was with the CFV digital back, it was not propely designed, lots of faults, other was the hassle with the Danes... He was truly sorry for the current situation, smiled only silently when I asked about the Lunar camera... He said: Don`t worry, we still have everything for the V system. We just don`t pay marketing and sales guys to promote it. There will be parts and items for the rest of our lives available, both for you and me... just ask us directly...
You see, the sales of NEW middle format cameras is almost zero. There is so many used bodies and lenses circulating, with new people coming into the hobby, so the service department is more than busy... I said: Ok good to hear. The way to go is thru a qualified service guy. he is worth gold now... OB said: I agree...

 

[apostasiometritis]

I was in Harrods in London yesterday for a project meeting and could not resist looking at their technology department.

The had Hasselblad next to Leica, I looked in the cabinet and a sales person approached me.

"Are you interested in something in particular sir?"

"Ehm, not really, just curious in the Lunar - I do have a Leica, albeit an old one" and I chuckled.

He chuckled back and he actually took it out (without me asking him to do that!).



I can tell you this much, the quality of the "shell" is rather shockingly bad. It actually feels like a housing of sorts for a NEX, that is the best way I can describe it.



If you have an opportunity to see one in the flesh, please do so - it is incredible that they are trying to sell it as luxury equipment because frankly, there was nothing luxurius about it. It actually felt *very* poorly put together. I know that the target market is not the same as you or me but surely if you are paying that much money you are expecting to get something that is well made.

 

[YYV_146]

Then they'll be right on time to match what 6x6 film can already provide. Amazing.

Anyways, Hasselblad - this is what happens when you let MBA and VC types drive the car.

I haven't handled a true Hasselblad digital before, but I have shot 645 film and loaned a old Phase back, and the D800E is quite a bit better than both, especially when it came to tweaking shadows. The first time you pull the shadows up 3 stops and see no noise at all - unbelievable.

Leica is pushed around by investors too, as is Canon and Nikon. But you need to have people call the right shots...the best companies can be totally screwed by two or three big mistakes.

 

[Rangefinderfreak]

What are you talking about??
"Leica is pushed around by investors too, as is Canon and Nikon. But you need to have people call the right shots...the best companies can be totally screwed by two or three big mistakes."

Mr Andreas Kaufmann owns now 100% of the shares of leica camera with his family. His wife is the curator of leica galleries around the world. With current surge of original Prints prices, the Kaufmanns say "it is not a bad business at all"

 

[icebear]

...

Mr Andreas Kaufmann owns now 100% of the shares of leica camera with his family. His wife is the curator of leica galleries around the world. With current surge of original Prints prices, the Kaufmanns say "it is not a bad business at all"

He sold a minority stake to an investment company (I think Blackstone, not sure) a couple of month ago to share the financial burden but I truly hope, he will be the only one in charge.

 

[Rangefinderfreak]

He sold a minority stake to an investment company (I think Blackstone, not sure) a couple of month ago to share the financial burden but I truly hope, he will be the only one in charge.

Mr kaufmann told in a recent interview that "IF I could decide, I would only make film leicas, but my family would fire me within a year. That`s why leica tries to make the best Digital M it can.. Don`t forget we have the leica S. It is a formidable studio and location tool for advertising/fashion photographer. We will give it an all out effort once the new factory is ready. What we learned with the Mini M is that don`t mess with the M format. The M shooters are very picky about that"

 

[FrozenInTime]

Along with today's H5D-50c 50 Mpixel CMOS equipped medium format camera was a note saying that Dr Larry Hansen ( the driving force behind the Lunar etc. ) has been replaced by a new CEO.

http://www.the.me/hasselblad-to-launch-worlds-first-medium-format-cmos-camera/

 

[Spicy]

Don't let the the door hit you on your way out 🙂, Doctor Larry