Where are all the affordable M2s in the UK?

[SebC]

At the moment I’m seriously considering an M2 or M3 (not sure which, never used either, or any Leica for that matter), but not with a huge budget. I was under the impression that they fetched similar amounts, but while I’m finding a fair few M3s around for £350-400, I’m struggling to find many M2s at all, and those I do find tend to be £500+.

Am I looking for something that doesn’t exist, or am I looking in the wrong places? At £500+ for an M2, I’ll end up with an M3 by default.

Thanks,

Seb

 

[Austerby]

I bought an M2 a couple of years ago for about £250 off an internet auction site, but it was in pretty poor condition and I've probably spent the same again on a CLA and replacing the worn out vulcanite with a cameraleather covering. It's now in tip-top condition and I'd be pleased if it is now worth £500 ish should I come to sell.

My M3 cost £400 and I had to spend a further £200 for a CLA on it too. That was probably a combination of my Leica inexperience at the time and buying the first one I came across but I'm very pleased with the camera now, as I am with the M2.

Therefore, whilst you may find cheaper cameras, if the £500 M2s have been recently CLA'd and renewed it may be worth buying at that price if you can. If not, be careful with the £350 M3s that you won't have to spend the CLA cost as well. Having given that warning I did pick up a IIIa for £75 which hasn't needed a CLA at all.

Another risk of a false economy could be getting an M3 when you really want an M2 if it's for using the 35mm framelines. If you get an M3 you'll need an external viewfinder with a 35mm lens - I think the Voigtlander ones are nearly a couple of hundred quid each so factor that into your overall costs.

Personally, I prefer my M3 to my M2 - I don't bother with a 35mm lens on it, using the older LTM 25mm VC Skopar which came with the external viewfinder but isn't rangefinder connected - the 25/50/90 lens set works better for me than the 35/50/90 of the M2. I also like using the unfashionable (but cheap) 135mm lens on the M3, for which the M2 doesn't provide framelines.

YMMV naturlich.

 

[danmitch]

Aperture Photographic in London have an M2 at £450 - I believe their Leica's will all have 12 month warranty too.

Hope this helps - Dan

 

[NathanJD]

I had trouble finding a nice M2 for less than £500 recently, I found an OK one for less at Ffordes but i had a phonecall from them saying it had been sold under my nose. i wasn't happy but then they hadn't taken my money so i couldn't complain too much. after a lot of looking around i ended up going with an Ex++ example from Aperture Photographic mentioned above for £530 but save for one tiny dent on the top plate and a pin head sized piece of vulcanite missing off of the back plate it is in tip top order. and more importantly perhaps is the very lengthy warrenty - an invaluable asset when buying a 50+ year old camera!


This is my thread on the same subject with some good advice
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72817

this is Aperture where my camera came from
http://www.apertureuk.com/



this is Ffordes who sell pretty cheap for a main dealer but make sure it's you they're selling the camera to!
https://secure.ffordes.com/index.htm

EDIT: I just wanted to add that I personally think that the M2 is a more useful camera thanks to it's 35mm frame lines. saves needing to get glasses and makes the camera more versitile in usual shooting situations - remember that the M2 was a knee jurk reaction for the 'issues' Leica's customers had when selling the M3. I personally don't have the need for a 135mm lens on my M body. i have a number of SLRs for that business.

 

[SebC]

Thanks all.

I'm still not sure about M2 vs M3, I really need to have a play with both. The thing is, when using my Canonet I sometimes wish the 40mm was wider (like, as wide as the whole of the VF) but when photographing people I wish it was 50mm or longer.

My girlfriend has a 1000d with a 50mm 1.8 (80mm equivalent) that I really like for photographing people, so I'd probably get a 90mm eventually if I got an M3 (as they're pretty cheap) but I can see it being less than useful on an M2.

 

[mr_phillip]

M2s can be found cheap enough if you're patient, but there's usually a reason for the low price. Like Austerby, my M2 came via eBay at the cost of around £280. It was cosmetically excellent, but the slow speeds were a little off (the seller had been honest enough to describe everything accurately in the listing). As soon as it arrived I sent it off to CRR in Luton for a full £165 service, and he did a magnificent job.

The result is that for just under £450 I got a beautiful camera that now shoots and handles at least as well as it did when it left the factory, and will continue doing so for another couple of decades at least. I'd call that a bit of a bargain really.

 

[SebC]

I'd happilly pay £280 for an M2 with the slow speeds a little off as I very rarely use anything slower than 1/60!

 

[mr_phillip]

Thanks all.

I'm still not sure about M2 vs M3, I really need to have a play with both. The thing is, when using my Canonet I sometimes wish the 40mm was wider (like, as wide as the whole of the VF) but when photographing people I wish it was 50mm or longer.

My girlfriend has a 1000d with a 50mm 1.8 (80mm equivalent) that I really like for photographing people, so I'd probably get a 90mm eventually if I got an M3 (as they're pretty cheap) but I can see it being less than useful on an M2.

The older I get, the more I'm convinced that all the kit I really need is an M2 with 35 and 90mm lenses.

 

[NathanJD]

Just to clarify CebC, the M2 has framelines of 35mm/50mm/90mm so a 90mm lens would bring up the right framelines on an M2 and allow for portraiture. M3's have 50mm/90mm/135mm framelines so you're going even longer than 90mm with an M3

 

[NathanJD]

The older I get, the more I'm convinced that all the kit I really need is an M2 with 35 and 90mm lenses.

I love my 50mm collapsible summicron too but I know where you're coming from! once i save some more and finally have my 90mm summarit i think i'm actually going to be content 😱

 

[photobizzz]

I'm in the US and just paid $595 for a sweet M2 with full M case, 2 OEM Leitz LTM-M adapters and he threw in a FED 5c and I61 L/D. I know the taxes kill you guys over the pond but maybe it would still be worth it to order from a US seller.

 

[akiralx]

My girlfriend has a 1000d with a 50mm 1.8 (80mm equivalent) that I really like for photographing people, so I'd probably get a 90mm eventually if I got an M3 (as they're pretty cheap) but I can see it being less than useful on an M2.

Yes, shooting 90mm on the M3 is easy owing to the 0.92 VF - whereas on the M8 for example I find it nigh-on impossible without the 1.25 magnifier.

You should find a 90mm Elmarit-M for well under £500 when the time arrives. Here's mine on the M3:

 

[NathanJD]

Keep an eye out in the RFF classifieds too - i have baught and sold here and have had good experiences. there's usually a quick turn around on Leica bodies if the price is right 😉

 

[historicist]

mwclassic.com very often have m2s around the 300 mark.

 

[SebC]

Just to clarify CebC, the M2 has framelines of 35mm/50mm/90mm so a 90mm lens would bring up the right framelines on an M2 and allow for portraiture. M3's have 50mm/90mm/135mm framelines so you're going even longer than 90mm with an M3

Yeah, I was just thinking about the VF magnification making it harder to frame and focus a 90mm on an M2.

 

[NathanJD]

Fair enough Seb, just making sure 😉. To my eye, the 35mm frame is pretty much the whole view from the viewfinder and i sometimes find it hard to see the framelines without looking around the frame. i have used my M2 with 35mm lenses.

The 50mm framelines are great and where you would comfortably want framelines in a viewfinder, allowing things to come and go from the frame field and there fore allowing you to see when a shot comes together without taking your eye away from the finder, 50mm is my favorite focal length and frameline setup.

With the 90mm framelines, yes they are small in the VF but the focusing dot remains the same size and is so clear that it doesn't phase me personally to think of using this magnification especially with portraiture work, but then i have better than 20x20 vision (or so my optician tells me) so it may be different for you. as i mentioned though i'm yet to try this out in practise, it's just my impression from playing around with the frameline preview.

 

[mr_phillip]

Yeah, I was just thinking about the VF magnification making it harder to frame and focus a 90mm on an M2.

I wouldn't worry too much about that. An M2 will happily frame and accurately focus any 90mm – even at f2. I do think that there's good reason for Leica's choice to normalise the M series cameras around the M2's finder. For general purpose use, it's a pretty nigh perfect middle ground.

 

[SebC]

Thanks for the input. Looks like I'll have to keep an eye out for an M2 (and I must admit, I think they can be a bit prettier than the M3).

 

[NathanJD]

Don't say that too loud in case the M3 heads hear you 😀 but i have to agree! i love the clean lines of the M2 and a manual reset film counter was never a deal breaker for me! it obviously inspired someone as it's designs are echoed are seen throughout the rest of the M range

 

[Acliff]

I recently bought my M2 from carmarthencameras.co.uk, a relative unknown shop compared to the other dealers for £400. Slight ding on the top, slight chip of vulcanite.
To be honest, I think I could have found a slightly better condition one for the same price, but impatience hit me hard 🙂
Once receiving it, it seems like its in perfect working order, but I'll have to process more films first!

I think I was also looking at that m2 at ffordes for £400 as well, and called to find it had gone.