Where have all the Robots gone?

Vince Lupo said:
BTW, I just checked on eBay, and there are 14 Robot Royal 36 cameras for sale, so they really aren't that rare.
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Vince, I'd respectfully disagree. Robots ARE quite rare, both here in the US and in Europe. You can't go by what you see available on ebay because if you pay close attention over say, a one or two month timespan, you'll see that the same few cameras are offered over and over and over by the same few sellers looking to make a killing. Many of them are BIN auctions in the $800 to $1300 range. They don't sell.

I too, always wanted a Robot and recently was able to obtain one. It was built to make a Leica seem flimsy in comparison, quirky, and fun to take out once in a while and shoot it, but let's be realiastic, you wouldn't carry one around all day, would you? Very heavy. I got it out of my system and sold it. YMMV.....
 
It might be better that there are less robots on the outside - if there were too many they might rise up in revolt and enslave us all - wait - are you talking about a certain brand of camera?
 
Agreed 100%, though I usually fail to make meaningful imagery w/any of my cameras.

BTW, as the owner/user of a couple Bell & Howell Fotons, I'm intrigued by your "review" of the Robot Royal. I wish the Foton had a lens wider than 50mm & a combined RF/VF (or even non-squinty separate RF/VF), but otherwise find it pretty easy to use. The Foton also gives very consistent spacing between the frames, but I'm not surprised because of B&H's experience w/motion picture cameras.

Vince Lupo said:
I think I'm going to use this beast some more, and hopefully justify the purchase of the Xenogon lens. I think the key with any of these vintage cameras - no matter what they are - is to not only exercise them with the odd roll of film with pictures of your cat - but to be able to make meaningful imagery with them. I've been trying to do this with my Contaflex TLR, with varying levels of success. It's almost like a personal challenge - like using a Leica M2 is too easy or something. Don't know if others have similar feelings about off-brand rangefinders that they use.....?
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George S. said:
Vince, I'd respectfully disagree. Robots ARE quite rare, both here in the US and in Europe. You can't go by what you see available on ebay because if you pay close attention over say, a one or two month timespan, you'll see that the same few cameras are offered over and over and over by the same few sellers looking to make a killing. Many of them are BIN auctions in the $800 to $1300 range. They don't sell.

I too, always wanted a Robot and recently was able to obtain one. It was built to make a Leica seem flimsy in comparison, quirky, and fun to take out once in a while and shoot it, but let's be realiastic, you wouldn't carry one around all day, would you? Very heavy. I got it out of my system and sold it. YMMV.....
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Well George, you may have a point there regarding rarity. I totally agree that it's Kevin and Photo Arsenal who are relisting the same cameras over and over, and no one will buy them at those prices. I guess I was coming from the standpoint of 'if you really want one, here are 14 of them on eBay now from which to choose'. True, those same 14 are from two dealers, and those 14 will probably still be there a year from now, but it's not like trying to find a Zeca-flex.

Carrying around one all day? Oh sure, no problem. The camera with the 50/2 Sonnar weighs 35.65 oz, my Exakta VX with a 50/2.8 Travenar weighs 39.05 oz, my Nikon S with a 50/1.4 Nikkor and hood weighs 31 oz, and my Leica IIIb with 50/1.5 Xenon is about 30 oz (let's not even talk about my Hasselblad 500 ELM with a 50/4 Distagon!). For me personally, heavy cameras don't bother me, as I've been using weighty cameras since I was 12 years old (32 years). When I'm shooting a journalistic assignment for a magazine, I'm usually carrying my D700 with a 28-70/2.8, and that weighs a whopping 76.45 oz (that's not including my camera bag with another body, three lenses and a flash), which is like carrying TWO Robot Royals around your neck. So for me, one Robot Royal 36 is just an average camera weight....but as I say, that's just me.
 
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Roger Hicks said:
Dear Dave,

You really shouldn't feel that you've missed too much. I've had several 24x24 models in the past (including Luftwaffe 'long spring') but most require at least one brand-specific cassette and many require two.
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Nearly all cameras, saving perhaps for the plastic point and shooters, need at least one "brand specific" cassette. All Robot models with rewind can instead of a closed cassette (NR) use an open model. All the Robot IIa and later models can use Nagel (Kodak) cassettes or TR (the Robot specific feeder cassette) for feeder. The Robot specific cassette, however, do offer many advantages such as smoother and safer operation especially with bulk loadings. The Robot design with a pair of closed (either the standard "Kodak" or Robot TR and Robot NR take-up) cassette pairs allows one also to change film mid-roll and allows for significantly faster film changes: no need to rewind and just pop the old pair out and a new pair in. Loading/unloading is, I would suggest, faster than with most any rangefinder including Leica M models and one of the keys to their success in a number of vertical applications.
The lens choice is indifferent and the square format (made necessary by the shutter design) is, in my view, less use than half frame.
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The lens selection is fine. The flange to film distance is ~31mm and this allows one to mount a large amount of glass via adapters. These adapters are rare on both the new and used markets but are easily made. That they are rare and were mainly used for extreme telephotos attests to the the quality and acceptance of the glass provided via Robot. Sure some current Leica and Zeiss glass might be "superior" but they also quite expensive.

The ones I've had have all been reliable, though incredibly heavy (the body is reputedly machined from a block of stainless steel).
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Robots made before the late 1950s used stamped and formed WMF stainless steel in their bodies and loads of steel and die cast zinc inside. Robot Royal and Recorder models and Star cameras after the first series of Robot Vollautomat Star II replaced the stainless steel design with castings. These cameras were designed for quite harsh environments and large numbers were sold to military and espionage organizations world wide--- and on both sides of the iron curtain. The British Army and espionage services were Robot customers just like the GDR Ministery for State Security (East German Stasi).
Admittedly I've always idly fancied a Royal 36 but they really are rare.
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Because even in the Royal where there was a choice most people wanted the 24x24 model. Robot did try their hand at "mass marketing" the Royal 36 with a 50mm/1:2 Zeiss Sonnar via Quelle (a West German analog to Sears in the US) in the early 1960s but this just got Zeiss upset. Robot btw. not only made their Star models in 24x24 but also in 18x24 (half format) and the Recorder models were available in not just 24x36, 24x24 and 18x24 but also a number of odd formats--- including variable--- and imposed image combinations.
If you want a motor-drive smaller-than-standard forrmat 35mm camera (14x21mm) with special cassettes, a Tessina is much more fun. And a TLR to boot.
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Tessinas are quite different beasts and intended for quite a different audience and applications. If you want to look for a submini to compare then it should be the Krasnogorsk F21. The Soviets, however, made a large number of different styles of espionage cameras including some excellent Minox copies. Most of the East Bloc agencies tended, however, to procure, alongside GDR made SLRs, West German made Minox and Robot cameras albeit often with some modifications and in-house tweaks (the OTS of the GDR even maintained manufacturing of modifications and special accessories via their own national optical and mechanical industries).

P.S.: To speak of "heavy artillery".. Many Robot Recorder models ended up in the artillery as part their image capture systems.
 
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randomm said:
Off-topic slightly, but I got my Robot Royal 36 back from a CLA today. Hoping for decent weather tomorrow so I can go shooting! I own a Robot Star & Royal 36, however, am in dire need for lens caps for both - might have to fabricate them myself looking at ebay prices...

This one was taken before servicing: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=131049&ppuser=35919
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I made my own lens cap for use on the collapsible shade. It was quite easy---- and I'll probably make another one. I used cardboard, paper, wood glue, some self-adhesive velvet and a round piece of leather (just for looks).

Under: http://jay.fedka.com/index_files/Page413.htm
are some good instructions (in contrast to his instructions I did not use paint but covered things in black velvet).

The technique creates, I think, a cap that is as good as if not better than any of the plastic things one can buy--- and in the case of the shade I had not seen anything suitable.
 
randomm said:
Off-topic slightly, but I got my Robot Royal 36 back from a CLA today. Hoping for decent weather tomorrow so I can go shooting! I own a Robot Star & Royal 36, however, am in dire need for lens caps for both - might have to fabricate them myself looking at ebay prices...

This one was taken before servicing: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=131049&ppuser=35919
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I think that an 42mm slip over cap will fit....at least that's the size that fits both my 50/2 Sonnar and my 75/4 Tele-Xenar. They're both Schneider caps, and the number on the back is SN 223-55.

As far as a REAR cap goes, you're on your own!
 
Vince Lupo said:
As far as a REAR cap goes, you're on your own!
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Well... For Robot screw mount.. one could probably use a C-Mount soft plastic rear. For Bayonet mount? Well... the top of an Agfa plastic film can seems to fit perfectly! If you look at the top you'll notice that it has an indentation. That indentation fits right over the bayonet mount.. just need to make sure that the rear glass makes no contact. Could probably also deform the plastic a bit if needed...
Body plugs are another issue.. And I have no idea for DIY plugs..
 
Edward C. Zimmermann said:
I made my own lens cap for use on the collapsible shade. It was quite easy---- and I'll probably make another one. I used cardboard, paper, wood glue, some self-adhesive velvet and a round piece of leather (just for looks).

Under: http://jay.fedka.com/index_files/Page413.htm
are some good instructions (in contrast to his instructions I did not use paint but covered things in black velvet).

The technique creates, I think, a cap that is as good as if not better than any of the plastic things one can buy--- and in the case of the shade I had not seen anything suitable.
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Thanks for this. Had seen it earlier but forgotten where!
 
Another question: I wonder if I get severe vignetting by using a Robot Star collapsible shade from a Schneider 40mm f1.9, or did they actually bother making different shades for 24x24 and 36x24? Just thinking as it fits prefectly...!
 
randomm said:
Another question: I wonder if I get severe vignetting by using a Robot Star collapsible shade from a Schneider 40mm f1.9, or did they actually bother making different shades for 24x24 and 36x24? Just thinking as it fits prefectly...!
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They made a few different versions--- the last ones, I think, were rubber---- but they fit and work fine.. There is to my knowledge no difference between the screw mount and bayonet mounted glass. The standard Robot hood, of course, won't fit on the Ennalyt (24mm), R61 (24mm), Xenogon (35mm) nor on any of the tele-photos 135mm and beyond..

On what lens did you attach the shade?
 
PAN F said:
With regard to the Robot Royal 36 fitted with the 50mm Zeiss f2 Sonnar:-
1. I notice that there are two types of Robot lenshood available - a 38mm ? screw version and another version attached by a four pronged clip-ins.Which is the best version to use with the Sonnar?
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The Royal Sonnar demands the screw-in. The pronged version is for earlier models--- pre mid-1950s. The 75mm Zeiss Sonnar (used M26x0,5 threaded mount so fits everything from Robot I to the Robot Star Classic), for example, had no threads and you need the 4-ponged clip-ins--- same with the 3 1/4" (30mm) and 3 3/4" (38mm) Tessar.
2. Which Robot filters are for the 50mm Sonnar the 4clip-in variety or the 38mm ? screw variety.
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Pre mid-1950 models (Robot IIa era and earlier) were clip-in. Anything newer--- including ALL the Royal and Recorder models--- takes screw in. The 50mm Zeiss Sonnar takes 38mm just like the 45mm Xenar. Not all Royal objectives, however, used E38. The 35mm Xenogon, for example, takes E58. For additional information see Schneider's site: http://www.schneideroptics.com/info/vintage_lens_data/small_format_lenses/index.htm

Among the Robot telescoping lenshades with E38 fitting there seems to have been a few variations. I'm not quite sure, however, beyond the logos and writing if there were any additional differences--- they were, after all, sold as "Universal".
 
This is the Giant Robot... It's Japanese. Also pretty heavy to carry around all day.

giantrobo.jpg
 
FUJINON said:
Hello Edward, I notice on the US and German Ebay websites that both 38mm screw and 37mm(M37) screw Robot telescopic lenshoods are listed.
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E37 is common standard size but won't fit any Robot. There are no hoods or filters from Robot in E37 size.
E38 is, unfortunately, not a common size. Fortunately, however, one can get excellent filters in this size from B+W and Heliopan.

I now know from your recent post that the Sonnar on my Robot Royal 36 takes 38mm screw fitting accessories.
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Correct.
Could you tell me what Robot cameras and lenses use 37mm screw fitting ?
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None.
 
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