Where is it ?! APO-Summicron-M 50mm f/2.0 ASPH

[philipus]

As I have understood it, it is complicated - very complicated - to make such a high performance lens so small. The lens would have become much larger were it to have been an f1.4 design with floating element.

Another aspect of Leica's decision to release this lens as a Summicron rather than a Summilux is that the difference between f2 and f1.4 is virtually none for digital photographers. And, like it or not, it is to that segment of photographers that Leica today caters.

Someone might add that, hey, the DOF at the widest end will be different between the APO and the ASPH. There's truth to that statement only insofar as all lenses render differently. So a keen eye may be able to discern difference in the out of focus rendering of these two lenses but I wager that the difference between them, being both modern designs, will be far less than between the APO and the pre-ASPH.

Some might say that f2 will be perceptibly different to the depth of field that a Summilux may be able to produce at f1.4. In actual fact, however, the difference in DOF at 1m between the APO and the ASPH is less than a centimetre, 0,02896m vs 0.002027m.

As always there will be photographers who must have the latest and greatest Leica gear. Those are usually the types who buy an M9-P as their first rangefinder and believe that it must, absolutely, be paired with the latest in lens design.

 

[Vics]

I always like it when a company or person attempts to make the absolute best of something, and to hell with cost/practicality/popularity. Makes a pleasant change from the usual nickel and dime approach, or the blandness of broad appeal.

It's a very large amount of money, but there are plenty of people in the world to whom it's pocket change.

Is it worth the money? Technically, almost certainly not, but nor is a Rolex, but it has other appeals which make it worth the money to the customer.

Exactly right. I actually do sleep better knowing that there's someone working to produce the very best of anything!

 

[Rayt]

On the other hand would you buy a plastic barrel Leica lens made in the Far East if it was half the price of the current cheapest model?

 

[jsrockit]

Isn't the M9-P retailing for $1000 more? And which do you think will hold higher value for the next 5 years? I find it kinda funny that people have accepted the M9 prices but can't accept an outstanding lens being priced at its worth.

Well, the M9 is a one of kind type of camera... there are a lot of great 50s out there.

 

[jsrockit]

On the other hand would you buy a plastic barrel Leica lens made in the Far East if it was half the price of the current cheapest model?

I would. 🙂

 

[Turtle]

.... And, like it or not, it is to that segment of photographers that Leica today caters....

The difference is exactly one stop to all photographers. As cameras get better, it is still a stop.

Its actually more important to Leica photographers than others, because the M9s high ISO is nowhere near as good as the latest DSLRs. You can still come seriously unstuck with ISO 1250 as 'just about OK' and 2500 as your 'I'm seriously desperate' settings. An extra stop makes one heck of a difference when you are on that edge. Maybe they know something about the M10 that we don't, or assume DOF is not an issue. You also lose a whole stop of subject separation with the new cron and pay handsomely for the privilege.

I have not heard any argument for this lens that makes sense other than "cool of them to make something at the cutting edge of what is possible." I can't disagree with it, but I would have thought it was pretty low on most photographers' list of priorities, even Leica aficionados.

I think most can understand the focus shift issues with the 35 old asph lux and the need to replace it... and the purpose of the new superfast 24 and 21, or even the 50 0.95 Noct, but for a lens over two stops slower to be nipping at the heels of such a lens in terms of price is astounding. Many baulked that the 24 3.8 was not that much cheaper than the previous 24 Elmarit asph, so I cannot imagine I am alone thinking Leica lost the plot with this one. I suspect most people envisaged a price somewhere below the 50 1.4 asph for this one and quite rightly so. I am glad they will continue to produce the regular 50 Cron, but they said that about the 24 Elmarit ultimately leaving people to choose between the pedestrian 24 3.8 and the much more expensive and larger 24 lux.

 

[hteasley]

This is fundamentally no different from a car company like Porsche making the 911, a car whose performance capabilities exceed the skills of almost every driver out there, that some lucky humans can afford, and then producing something like the 918 Spyder, a supercar that has no reason for being off the track, that is not affordable to humans, and which has a performance envelope that far exceeds the driving ability of anyone except professional race car drivers.

They do it to show it can be done, and that only the best can do it. (They also learn valuable engineering lessons in the R&D of such a beast, that can positively affect their less lofty products.)

 

[Turtle]

I suppose so in some respects, but that is not a production car sitting in showrooms as part of a regular line up. Every main dealer will be expected to carry the new Cron. Maybe Leica did do it for the heck of it, or to find out what was required to do so... Maybe they did it to prepare us for the new M10's price!

This is fundamentally no different from a car company like Porsche making the 911, a car whose performance capabilities exceed the skills of almost every driver out there, that some lucky humans can afford, and then producing something like the 918 Spyder, a supercar that has no reason for being off the track, that is not affordable to humans, and which has a performance envelope that far exceeds the driving ability of anyone except professional race car drivers.

They do it to show it can be done, and that only the best can do it. (They also learn valuable engineering lessons in the R&D of such a beast, that can positively affect their less lofty products.)

 

[Lss]

I have not heard any argument for this lens that makes sense other than "cool of them to make something at the cutting edge of what is possible." I can't disagree with it, but I would have thought it was pretty low on most photographers' list of priorities, even Leica aficionados.

It is optically the best 50-mm lens Leica offers for their M system. This includes 50/0.95, 50/1.4, and non-APO 50/2 at f/2 and below. What else is there to argue really?

 

[jja]

Here is a professional fashion photographer's explanation of why the new APO Summicron is the right lens for his type of work. He introduces the lens @ 1:32, but it's worth looking at all the images in the video:

http://vimeo.com/41841742

 

[segedi]

Well, the M9 is a one of kind type of camera... there are a lot of great 50s out there.

And with CMOS sensors with better high ISO and such some will say a NEX 7 or X-Pro are better cameras despite being cropped sensor and costing 5 to 6 times less money. The M9 is outdated some will say as well, but still costs multiple times what "better" cameras cost.

The MM has tremendous resolution of details and Leica created a lens to match that performance. Sure, you could use the Summilux at f/2 and nearly match the performance at a great cost savings. Or you could use the Noctilux at f/2 and wasted almost four grand... The fact is you have the choice to buy or not, and people, maybe even some photographers, will buy the new 50mm.

And if Leica has gone batty, then so must have Canon as their new 24-70mm and 70-200mm and 5D III are priced much more than their previous offerings, with the 24-70 costing twice as much as the previous version. With the case of Leica, maybe it's also great marketing. That 50mm Summilux doesn't look that expensive anymore now does it? Or maybe the new costs simply reflect the effects of inflation brought on by the world trying to print itself out of debt...

 

[redisburning]

Or maybe the new costs simply reflect the effects of inflation brought on by the world trying to print itself out of debt...

just so we remain factually accurate here, I need to point out that your statement is incorrect.

inflation of the euro has remained less than or equal to 3% over the last 2 years:

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/euro-area/inflation-cpi

the same is true of the dollar.

 

[jsrockit]

And with CMOS sensors with better high ISO and such some will say a NEX 7 or X-Pro are better cameras despite being cropped sensor and costing 5 to 6 times less money. The M9 is outdated some will say as well, but still costs multiple times what "better" cameras cost.

Better in some ways, worse in others. My point is that the M9 is still the only full frame mechanical rangefinder camera on the market. It is unique in that regard. Lenses like the one in question are unique, but only if you care about certain technical concerns.

 

[drew.saunders]

I can think of one group that might use this lens. Those who buy this: http://www.red.com/store/products/dsmc-al-leica-m-mount at $700 to mount on this http://www.red.com/store/products/epic-x-brain-only at $35,000 plus all the other bits to make it work probably (looks to be around $50K to start) wouldn't blink at a $7000 f/2 lens. Especially if it's close to T/2 as well. Compared to some of the Cooke or other lenses, if it's what they want to get the image they need, $7K would be cheap.

 

[Calzone]

I could see a B&W film guy like me, who shoots a lot of medium format, buying this lens to use on a M9M if I ever go digital. In this application the added resolution provided by the M9M body warrants the price of this lens. It would be wonderful to have such a small lightweight camera that has more resolution than 35mm film. Also not into cropped sensors.

I imagine the above rig takes a big step toward medium format resolution and detail, and of course this is for making large prints.

I wonder how my 28 Cron would work on a M9M. 28mm and a 50 Cron APO would be all I need. Of course I'd have to sell a lot of my small format gear to fund this, but seriously it is a possibility.

BTW I also looked into a Pentax 645D body (about $10K). Since I already have a P67II kit I could use all the glass I already own, but I learned when I shot some color slides I was reminded that I an basically a B&W only shooter.

Cal

 

[Turtle]

I'm not so sure. A very simple test I saw online compared a D800E and 45 pancake with the M9M and 50 APO Cron asph and in terms of resolution it was about a dead heat on centre. At the edge the Leica combo had the edge, but it was not fall off your chair different (albeit at middling apertures of f5.6 and 8). I would expect that by 2.8 the regular 50 cron would be next to no different to this new masterpiece in practice on print and at f2 there would be a difference, but the cheaper symmetrical cron would still be darned good. At the end of the day, how often do you shoot landscapes with corner to corner sharpness, at distance, wide open in low light so you cannot add a stop of ISO?

The notion that the M9M 'needs this lens' is marketing IMO... especially since the M9M produces very little noise at 640 and beyond.

I could see a B&W film guy like me, who shoots a lot of medium format, buying this lens to use on a M9M if I ever go digital. In this application the added resolution provided by the M9M body warrants the price of this lens. ...

BTW I also looked into a Pentax 645D body (about $10K). Since I already have a P67II kit I could use all the glass I already own, but I learned when I shot some color slides I was reminded that I an basically a B&W only shooter.

Cal

 

[Teuthida]

One more plaything for nouveau riche philistines while 4/5ths of the world squats in their corrugated tin hovels. If that works for you, have at it.

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

Isn't the M9-P retailing for $1000 more? And which do you think will hold higher value for the next 5 years? I find it kinda funny that people have accepted the M9 prices but can't accept an outstanding lens being priced at its worth.

+1



(bla bla for length...)

 

[kzphoto]

I was hoping for a cosmetic upgrade with the current 50 optics -- something akin to what the new lens looks like. At $7k though, I'll keep my eyes peeled for a v4 tabbed Summicron.

I am happy to see that Leica is doing what it can to push the boundary of optics -- we should see some of this technology trickle down into the elmarits and elmars of the next generation, I would imagine.

 

[Jockos]

It's not really "new" technology that will trickle down, since Karbe made this lens sixteen years ago.

The APO-Summicron 2.0/50mm aspherical is a lens originally conceived sixteen years ago. With the APO-Summicron 2.0/50mm ASPH Leica has made apochromatic corrections, as the name suggests by using special glasses, glasses with partial dispersion, to improve the colour unity in the picture element. The lens will of course only reach peak performance in conjunction with the M9 Monochrom because it has the resolution and the entire imaging chain is so lossless that it’s only then that the performance of the lens comes across.

http://blog.leica-camera.com/photog...arbe-the-leica-apo-summicron-m-50-mm-f2-asph/

Just wasn't crazy enough to release it until now!