Ken Ford
Refuses to suffer fools
I have a foot firmly in each camp.
About 80% of my photography is with a DSLR; my style of railroad action shooting really doesn't lend itself to RF and the freedom of leaving chromes behind is wonderful. Digital has let me become much more experimental with shooting in grubby and challenging light because I can pop off a few, chimp, adjust and go for the brass ring.
However, I really love working with film. For me, RFs are for the times that I'm working a situation - a more interpretive documentary style than the reportage style I tend to use with the DSLRs. When I go trackside with a DSLR, I'm shooting long glass in-your-face stuff; the rare occasions I have a RF railfanning I come back with vignettes of switchstands, light/dark studies and other "arty" crap.
I would very much like a DRF, but the M8 is out of my price league and the Epson scares me a little. I've often wondered if a DRF would allow me to meld my two different styles into one. Don't underestimate the creative effects of instant gratification!
About 80% of my photography is with a DSLR; my style of railroad action shooting really doesn't lend itself to RF and the freedom of leaving chromes behind is wonderful. Digital has let me become much more experimental with shooting in grubby and challenging light because I can pop off a few, chimp, adjust and go for the brass ring.
However, I really love working with film. For me, RFs are for the times that I'm working a situation - a more interpretive documentary style than the reportage style I tend to use with the DSLRs. When I go trackside with a DSLR, I'm shooting long glass in-your-face stuff; the rare occasions I have a RF railfanning I come back with vignettes of switchstands, light/dark studies and other "arty" crap.
I would very much like a DRF, but the M8 is out of my price league and the Epson scares me a little. I've often wondered if a DRF would allow me to meld my two different styles into one. Don't underestimate the creative effects of instant gratification!
JonR
Well-known
Ken - Well Said!
Ken - Well Said!
Well Said!
I recognise the feeling... it is that combination that would be wonderful and also the possibilities for the young, new kids growing up today to get the satisfaction that you and I can get with a RF.
I am also 80% Digital but I am absolutely committed to my RF´s and film also.... my son however will not start with film now and I wonder if there will be a "digital rangefinder" path for him later on.... maybe not exactly as you have had it with a good Leica or a Nikon S or something like that but the same feeling...
/J
Ken - Well Said!
Well Said!
I recognise the feeling... it is that combination that would be wonderful and also the possibilities for the young, new kids growing up today to get the satisfaction that you and I can get with a RF.
I am also 80% Digital but I am absolutely committed to my RF´s and film also.... my son however will not start with film now and I wonder if there will be a "digital rangefinder" path for him later on.... maybe not exactly as you have had it with a good Leica or a Nikon S or something like that but the same feeling...
/J
mackigator
Well-known
I want a digital rangefinder. But I echo everyone else on price and reliability with the two current options.
Yesterday I shot all day for a "Day in the life of" project in my hometown. I carried a Hexar RF, a Bessa R2, and a Lumix LX1 digital (its a P&S). The pictures from the film bodies will be good, but I long for the on the fly ISO changes, flexibility, RAW tweaking, no film cost, ability to at least occasionally "chimp" and retake, etc. that are possible with digital. A digital RF would be a good thing.
On the digital side, I long for a camera that stays "ready" to shoot in a split second, even in the bag. I want to use my M mount lenses, but I'll trade out to a new lens design if it offers a similar size of lens/quality ratio. I want low noise/better ISO options. I want the great manual controls of most rangefinders. If all or most of this came in something smaller than today's SLRs, I'd buy it no matter what type of camera they called it.
Someone make our camera!
Yesterday I shot all day for a "Day in the life of" project in my hometown. I carried a Hexar RF, a Bessa R2, and a Lumix LX1 digital (its a P&S). The pictures from the film bodies will be good, but I long for the on the fly ISO changes, flexibility, RAW tweaking, no film cost, ability to at least occasionally "chimp" and retake, etc. that are possible with digital. A digital RF would be a good thing.
On the digital side, I long for a camera that stays "ready" to shoot in a split second, even in the bag. I want to use my M mount lenses, but I'll trade out to a new lens design if it offers a similar size of lens/quality ratio. I want low noise/better ISO options. I want the great manual controls of most rangefinders. If all or most of this came in something smaller than today's SLRs, I'd buy it no matter what type of camera they called it.
Someone make our camera!
Mazurka
Well-known
jaapv said:
Not at all surprising given that:
1. I used the quantifier "excessive" in my original statement about the Leica. The Epson is not completely blind to IR, but the M8 is even more sensitive.
2. Last time I checked (i.e. last week), the RD-1s was still directly available from the Epson USA website.
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goo0h
Well-known
For grins I just looked. It's listed on the Epson site, but it also indicates:Mazurka said:
"Out of Stock at the Epson Store"
anselwannab
Well-known
The M-mount digital camera is the equivelent of the horse-less carriage. People are trying to take old, famliar paradigms and apply them to new technology.
What we need is the next revolutionary, breakthru camera like the original 35mm Leica Rf were. Damn the full frame sensor, damn the legacy M-mount and full speed ahead.
I appreciate M-mount and screw type cameras. My CL or Zorki go with me everywhere , and I love shooting and developing film. But it is like I tell my wife; I love you dearly, but if Mira Sorvino gives me the nod, I'm out of here.
As to Cosina/Mr. K making a dRF, I could see a B&W sensor only APS-c sized camera.
Outside of Leica and Cosina, the only way I see Canon, Nikon, Panasonic, or Sigma making a dRF is if they change the lens mount. That way they can update and add features and also subsidize the cost of developing the camera over more sales.
Personally, If I had the resources, I'd wait till 4/3 sensos could get clean 3200iso 10-12mp pictures and then bring out a whole new system. Maybe make the lens register a bit less, and sell adaptors for M-mount lens, but maybe not.
In the mean time I hold out for Canon. Maybe leaving out the RAW from the G7 was to leave room for an APS-c P&S. Put a fixed 35/2.0 lens on one version and an 85/1.8 on another and we're in business.
Mark
What we need is the next revolutionary, breakthru camera like the original 35mm Leica Rf were. Damn the full frame sensor, damn the legacy M-mount and full speed ahead.
I appreciate M-mount and screw type cameras. My CL or Zorki go with me everywhere , and I love shooting and developing film. But it is like I tell my wife; I love you dearly, but if Mira Sorvino gives me the nod, I'm out of here.
As to Cosina/Mr. K making a dRF, I could see a B&W sensor only APS-c sized camera.
Outside of Leica and Cosina, the only way I see Canon, Nikon, Panasonic, or Sigma making a dRF is if they change the lens mount. That way they can update and add features and also subsidize the cost of developing the camera over more sales.
Personally, If I had the resources, I'd wait till 4/3 sensos could get clean 3200iso 10-12mp pictures and then bring out a whole new system. Maybe make the lens register a bit less, and sell adaptors for M-mount lens, but maybe not.
In the mean time I hold out for Canon. Maybe leaving out the RAW from the G7 was to leave room for an APS-c P&S. Put a fixed 35/2.0 lens on one version and an 85/1.8 on another and we're in business.
Mark
IGMeanwell
Well-known
clintock said:
Probably not ... but they did put their badge on a F-150 and you know they get a cut
haagen_dazs
Well-known
i do hope that someone somewhere out there will put out a product to compete with the M8
no monopoly is good and with some good competition, it will benefit consumers
perhaps someday, we will see another dRF coming into the market
no monopoly is good and with some good competition, it will benefit consumers
perhaps someday, we will see another dRF coming into the market
Bryan Lee
Expat Street Photographer
Some seem to be overlooking the fact the RD1 is for all practical puposes a Cosina product. In addition I must be the only one who noticed this last summer during its half hearted introduction.
S
Socke
Guest
Brian, the brand name belongs to a german group of retailers, we have Voigtländer P&S digitals as well as Voigtländer branded film, probably Ferania, Voigtländer memory cards and even a Voigtländer branded beamer.
Bryan Lee
Expat Street Photographer
Socke said:
My bad, I understood he bought the name outright. Does he have to lease the name for every new camera body. It is a weird situation to be in having the name on products that do not in any way represent your company.
Mazurka
Well-known
goo0h said:
Thanks, at least in part, to the M8. Just like I said.
shutterflower said:
Lamborghini started out by making tracters.
Ferrari don't have sedans, but Ferrari design and technology give birth to the Maserati Quattroporte.
OTOH, Porsche does have an SUV, though it's actually a hot-rod VW.
You see how little this kind of analogy applies to Cosina.
Bryan Lee said:
It's Ringfoto the company who owns the Voigtlander name.
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
Ok, this is a good thread for throwing around ideas (also for stomping on them )
According to what I read about the head of Cosina (Mr. Kobayashi), he sounds like a person who would do things because it challenges him.
So, how's this for a challenge?
Come up with a digital Bessa RF that:
- Utilizes the largest sensor that would eliminate crop-factor, so the lenses stays what they are
- 10 Mega pixels minimum image resolution
- The camera has to be compatible with the current lenses.
- Has No LCD on the back (how's that for bucking the trend ), just indicators that the image has been saved onto the memory card. This achieves three things: 1) it will keep the camera discreet, 2) it will encourage film-like shooting discipline, 3) it will help keep the cost of the camera down
- Has zero or near-zero shutter lag
- Keep it at about 1000 USD body only
Anybody else want to add to these requirements?
)According to what I read about the head of Cosina (Mr. Kobayashi), he sounds like a person who would do things because it challenges him.
So, how's this for a challenge?
Come up with a digital Bessa RF that:
- Utilizes the largest sensor that would eliminate crop-factor, so the lenses stays what they are
- 10 Mega pixels minimum image resolution
- The camera has to be compatible with the current lenses.
- Has No LCD on the back (how's that for bucking the trend
), just indicators that the image has been saved onto the memory card. This achieves three things: 1) it will keep the camera discreet, 2) it will encourage film-like shooting discipline, 3) it will help keep the cost of the camera down- Has zero or near-zero shutter lag
- Keep it at about 1000 USD body only
Anybody else want to add to these requirements?
dazedgonebye
Veteran
shadowfox said:Ok, this is a good thread for throwing around ideas (also for stomping on them
According to what I read about the head of Cosina (Mr. Kobayashi), he sounds like a person who would do things because it challenges him.
So, how's this for a challenge?
Come up with a digital Bessa RF that:
- Utilizes the largest sensor that would eliminate crop-factor, so the lenses stays what they are
- 10 Mega pixels minimum image resolution
- The camera has to be compatible with the current lenses.
- Has No LCD on the back (how's that for bucking the trend
- Has zero or near-zero shutter lag
- Keep it at about 1000 USD body only
Anybody else want to add to these requirements?
Sorry, I want the LCD readout. Make it folding like the RD-1 so you diciplined sorts can ignore it. I like to be able to sit and delete my loosers before I transfer the files.
R
Richard Black
Guest
I like shadowfox's idea, but I would seek greater simplicity. Capture only in RAW or that digital negative thing, thing is a technical word here in Ok., with no LCD. Why, because I shoot an R now and it does not have an LCD, and I rarely use it on my Olympus SP 350. Keep it simple for me, just like the R. My 2 cents.
steve garza
Well-known
No monitor would increase the battery longevity as well.
S
Socke
Guest
dazedgonebye said:
And have a histogram for critical exposure, IMHO that's realy helpfull.
The LCD is one of the best things in digital cameras.
But I don't think they will make one, Cosina is not the company for this kind of stunt.
clintock
Galleryless Gearhead
Cosina is a film camera company-pretty much now the only one, serving customers who use 35mm film, and want to buy film cameras. Not much competition there, why would they want to compete to make a digital camera when they are the only 35mm film camera maker?
That's the point I was trying to hint at with the HD making SUV quip, HD is a motorcycle company, selling mototcycles to people shopping for motorcycles. True it has wheels and an engine, battery etc, but a motorcycle is a different product than a pickup truck with leather seats in the covered back. Just as a film camera is a different product from a digital camera. For example, one can use slide film in a film camera and obtain slides to put in a slide projector.
The real guys who should be pestered to make a digital rf system is Contax. By Contax I mean Kyocera. They already made the G, and until recently they had a full line of digital cameras, so all they would have to do now is alter current physics, as any maker trying to make a full frame RF body will need to do to eliminate fringing due to the microlenses off center for objectives so close to the sensor. Maybe they are laying in wait for a micro-lensless sensor to be invented..
Man this is a jerky sounding post, I need to eat lunch!
I'll edit this for sweetness later..
That's the point I was trying to hint at with the HD making SUV quip, HD is a motorcycle company, selling mototcycles to people shopping for motorcycles. True it has wheels and an engine, battery etc, but a motorcycle is a different product than a pickup truck with leather seats in the covered back. Just as a film camera is a different product from a digital camera. For example, one can use slide film in a film camera and obtain slides to put in a slide projector.
The real guys who should be pestered to make a digital rf system is Contax. By Contax I mean Kyocera. They already made the G, and until recently they had a full line of digital cameras, so all they would have to do now is alter current physics, as any maker trying to make a full frame RF body will need to do to eliminate fringing due to the microlenses off center for objectives so close to the sensor. Maybe they are laying in wait for a micro-lensless sensor to be invented..
Man this is a jerky sounding post, I need to eat lunch!
I'll edit this for sweetness later..
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BadMonkey
Humble Photographer
Drf
Drf
Oooh now that sounds promising, I'd even consider the no LCD... Mr. K. if you're lurking, take note! He he.
I'd buy one in a heart beat.
Cheers.
Drf
Oooh now that sounds promising, I'd even consider the no LCD... Mr. K. if you're lurking, take note! He he.
I'd buy one in a heart beat.
Cheers.
shadowfox said:Ok, this is a good thread for throwing around ideas (also for stomping on them
According to what I read about the head of Cosina (Mr. Kobayashi), he sounds like a person who would do things because it challenges him.
So, how's this for a challenge?
Come up with a digital Bessa RF that:
- Utilizes the largest sensor that would eliminate crop-factor, so the lenses stays what they are
- 10 Mega pixels minimum image resolution
- The camera has to be compatible with the current lenses.
- Has No LCD on the back (how's that for bucking the trend
- Has zero or near-zero shutter lag
- Keep it at about 1000 USD body only
Anybody else want to add to these requirements?
dazedgonebye
Veteran
So, how much would you pay for a Bessa RD-X?
Assume essentially the same layout as the RD-1 w/10mp sensor.
I’ll say $2,250.
BTW. Wouldn’t the easiest way for Cosina to do a digital RF be to buy the capability from Epson? All the hard engineering is done. Just drop in the new sensor and update as necessary.
Assume essentially the same layout as the RD-1 w/10mp sensor.
I’ll say $2,250.
BTW. Wouldn’t the easiest way for Cosina to do a digital RF be to buy the capability from Epson? All the hard engineering is done. Just drop in the new sensor and update as necessary.