shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
clintock said:
Allright, the requirement list is updated with good suggestions.
I'll also broaden the challenge to ALL camera makers, heck, if Canon eat up on this challenge, I'd buy theirs too
(no offense directed at the Canon RF folks).Come up with a digital RF that:
- Utilizes the largest sensor that would eliminate crop-factor, so the lenses stays what they are
- 10 Mega pixels minimum image resolution
- Is compatible with the current lenses (do not come up with another incompatible lens mount)
- Has No LCD on the back (how's that for bucking the trend
), just indicators that the image has been saved onto the memory card. This achieves three things: 1) it will keep the camera discreet, 2) it will encourage film-like shooting discipline, 3) it will help keep the cost of the camera down, 4) it will prolong battery life- Has zero or near-zero shutter lag
- Keep it at about 1000 USD body only
- RAW only, no in camera post-processing
... and
Come up with a slightly more expensive model with a flip LCD that can be turned off completely.
Anything else?
S
Socke
Guest
This feature list means a homegrown Software/CPU design, or an available CPU with lots of functions disabled. Possible, but why? I have the display on my D60 turned off most of the time, automatic review is too slow, but the LCD is a very helpfull tool.
Why have a digital rangefinder if it's possibilities are intentionaly crippled? It won't be that much cheaper, like some cars where the manual transmission is a special order item.
Why have a digital rangefinder if it's possibilities are intentionaly crippled? It won't be that much cheaper, like some cars where the manual transmission is a special order item.
Terao
Kiloran
All I want is an R-D1 with a better rangefinder and ISO50 (or maybe 100). All the rest can stay as it is...
Oh and better battery life...
Oh and better battery life...
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
Well, here's what I'm thinking. The software part has always been the flexible one, you can disable and enable features without literally any effort aside from programming (one time only as long as you get it right, believe me, I know how this can be very difficult, but that's another storySocke said:
).The cost savings comes from the actual LCD assembly itself. I would venture that the cost of installing an LCD is a significant chunk of the total cost for making a digital camera, especally the high-resolution and brightness ones.
A lot of camera makers are fighting over the supply and we've read a few times about camera makers who postponed launching a product because they can't secure enough LCDs.
When you look at it this from the perspective of the company who are about to produce thousands of hopefully selling well cameras, any decrease in parts and/or labor cost without sacrificing quality is a plus.
Another way to look at this is from our perspective as photographers. LCD is a boon for two things:
1. Speed - working photographers on assignment, not argument about it.
2. Precision - macro or super-tele work.
If the requirement is for a professional DSLR, I would not leave out the LCD. But for street and/or journalism photography, which is the hallmark of RF cameras, these two categories are not crucial.
Which one is more detrimental to capturing the "moment"?
1. Constantly reviewing your picture on the LCD because it's there
2. Not having the LCD but has the ability to review the pictures later on (during breaks for example)
I would say #1 is bad.
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dazedgonebye
Veteran
The LCD screen, I think, is a market necessity. Even though you and others might appreciate the cost savings more...I believe most customers would demand it. Myself included.
If they sell far fewer units for the lack of a feature seen as standard by the vast majority of digital users, you'll pay back your savings in higher costs due to lower volume.
If they sell far fewer units for the lack of a feature seen as standard by the vast majority of digital users, you'll pay back your savings in higher costs due to lower volume.
gustav[] pEña
gustav[] pEña
another vote for no lcd. It will be cheaper and more film like. just like any other film rangefinder. You will love it at the end and your wallet too.
Sparrow
Veteran
How about auxiliary or "optional extra" LCD module, clips on the back of the otherwise sleek full-frame RF when you need it keep it in your pocket when you don’t, it could even have wireless-coms so you could use it remotely, like a photo game-boy or give it to the client to review the results, or provide instant feedback to a model.
Sparrow
Veteran
How much stuff is in the path of light from that RF window way out on the left?
And you have to get the VF window out to the right more. EBL is the name of the game you know.
And you have to get the VF window out to the right more. EBL is the name of the game you know.
VinceC
Veteran
I think an LCD adds about $50 to the cost of electronics components these days. The camera should have one of those LCDs that folds away so that it's not there for those who don't need it and is also protected in rugged condtions. And overlooked advantage of LCD that I use on point and shoot is that it makes it easier to take pictures from very unusual angles, such as with the camera on the floor, pushed into a corner or held high overhead. An articulated LCD would allow you to take a test shot to check framing while keeping the camera in that same position.
Sparrow
Veteran
Please don’t disturb the creative process with reality! I do style you’ll need an engineer if you want it to work!!
VinceC
Veteran
Stewart,
I think those analog needle dials were what adds so much to the development cost of the RD1 and are also among the least rugged elements of the camera. Match needles are good for 1960s light meters, not for battery-level readouts. The main info necessary is "shots taken/remaining" and "battery life". These can be accomplished with a small and well-designed quartz or LCD diplay on top.
I think those analog needle dials were what adds so much to the development cost of the RD1 and are also among the least rugged elements of the camera. Match needles are good for 1960s light meters, not for battery-level readouts. The main info necessary is "shots taken/remaining" and "battery life". These can be accomplished with a small and well-designed quartz or LCD diplay on top.
Sparrow
Veteran
Sparrow
Veteran
Hi VinceVinceC said:
Yes I can see that, but this is my fantasy camera so the dials have to stay, sorry.
I’ve added an imaginary backup display on LCD-pod in case you have problems with the dials; as a compromise that is
Paul T.
Veteran
I LOVED the analog displays. But I would willingly sacrifice them for a LED bargraph readout, as long as we kept the old skool exposure compensation, which was very intuitive.
I do wonder how much hassle it would be to go to a 1.3 crop and 10MP, now the R&D is already done. If Cosina contract out the electronics, I reckon they could still get to a good price point, without having to pay Epson's mark-up too. And at leaast it they're responsible for final assembly, the chances of decent RF alignment are slightly better...
There is one irony with the R-D1, in retrospect. Ultimately, EPson took the rap for RF problems that surely emanated from the Cosina factory...
I do wonder how much hassle it would be to go to a 1.3 crop and 10MP, now the R&D is already done. If Cosina contract out the electronics, I reckon they could still get to a good price point, without having to pay Epson's mark-up too. And at leaast it they're responsible for final assembly, the chances of decent RF alignment are slightly better...
There is one irony with the R-D1, in retrospect. Ultimately, EPson took the rap for RF problems that surely emanated from the Cosina factory...
fgianni
Trainee Amateur
Keith said:I remember the founder of one of the world's largest vehicle manufacturers ... Soichiro Honda making a public statement that Honda would never manufacture a two stroke engine for it's motorcycles ... they finished up making millions of them!
When California, the world's largest motorcycle market, banned sales of new two stroke motorcycles he dropped the design like a hot potato! Heads of large coorporations are driven by ideas that create profit ... not ideals!
And in 1958 Enzo Ferrari making a statement that he will never build a car with a rear mounted engine! It took just 2 years of Cooper beating regularly the much more powerful Ferrari in F1 to change his mind.
VinceC
Veteran
This whole rangefinder alignment problem would be solved if the camera included adjustment screws easily accessed by the user, perhaps behind a screw-on cover. Lining up a rangefinder to infinity, horizontally and vertically, is a long-term fact of life when owning these cameras. Doing it shouldn't require sending it off to a factory.
VinceC
Veteran
This whole rangefinder alignment problem would be solved if the camera included adjustment screws easily accessed by the user, perhaps behind a screw-on cover. Lining up a rangefinder to infinity, horizontally and vertically, is a long-term fact of life when owning these cameras. Doing it shouldn't require sending it off to a factory.
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Sparrow
Veteran
VinceC said:
In my fantasy design the RF is a fibre optic anyway so its virtually solid state, the cam-follower is replaced with an electronic sensor, so mechanical wear isn’t an issue either. The focus confirmation indicator also makes alignment less of an issue, and allows Zuiko lenses to be used with an adaptor
summilux
Well-known
the epson r-d1 body is different from the bessa, it is much stronger.
and a digital camera is both hardware and software driven, I am not sure cosina has the expertise in the software side.
he can buy it from others, but the question is will it be profitable? i guess not, that is why cosina is not making one.
and a digital camera is both hardware and software driven, I am not sure cosina has the expertise in the software side.
he can buy it from others, but the question is will it be profitable? i guess not, that is why cosina is not making one.