andrewtc4
Newbie
First post of all of RFF,
I work as an assistant/b shooter for an architecture guy in Phoenix Arizona. That is a D810, 14-24 or tilt shift, loads of prep and hours of Photoshop. I use film cameras for personal things.
I love buying old beat up gear from yard sales or goodwill and making them work, but how do I take the step from just redoing light seals and cleaning out old lubricant with lighter fluid? I am not expecting much more then just wanting the knowhow. Knowing what I know of coding, I feel like what I know of camera repair is that I just do shortcuts doomed to fail. How do I start from scratch from a tinker to a repair person?
I work as an assistant/b shooter for an architecture guy in Phoenix Arizona. That is a D810, 14-24 or tilt shift, loads of prep and hours of Photoshop. I use film cameras for personal things.
I love buying old beat up gear from yard sales or goodwill and making them work, but how do I take the step from just redoing light seals and cleaning out old lubricant with lighter fluid? I am not expecting much more then just wanting the knowhow. Knowing what I know of coding, I feel like what I know of camera repair is that I just do shortcuts doomed to fail. How do I start from scratch from a tinker to a repair person?
Hi,
Welcome to RFF.
You have to be willing to put in some time, make a few mistakes, learn from them and keep learning. I think the right mind set counts for a lot: try to do the very best work you are capable of and aim high. I think that perhaps 80 percent or so is perserverance and patience.
Having said that there are a few resources to help get you on your way. Thomas Tomosy has authored several books about the generalities of repairing cameras and the specifics of a number of different types. These are not perfect, by any means. Tomosy and I differ in our opinions on the use of graphite in shutters, for instance, (I am not a fan of it) and, without wanting to appear too critical of what are, generally, quite useful texts, there are the odd technical errors about certain types of cameras. But his first two books are worth picking up and are available cheaply second hand via Amazon and eBay etc (usually as ex-library copies).
The late Ed Romney's repair book is also worth looking out for in my opinion. The quality of diagrams and photos is not particularly good, however Romney had a style of writing that was quite different to Tomosy. He was opinionated, and he pulled no punches in his admiration or disdain for certain makes and models of camera, but he also offered some resourceful suggestions for how to accomplish certain repair tasks (Eg. using another camera as a substitute for a collimator to check focus).
Of course if there are particular types of cameras you prefer to use you will want to avail yourself of any manufacturers' repair manuals that are available. These vary greatly in availability and helpfulness (Eg. some assume you are already a trained camera technician and are little more than exploded diagrams and/or specifications, others are more specific about step by step procedures). I always work on the basis that more information is better than less, so, having a particular interest in Rollei, Zeiss Ikon and Voigtlander cameras, whenever the opportunity to purchase repair documentation from any source at a not-too-extortionate price has presented itself, I've taken it. There are also a number of pdf manuals available free via various sources on the web; Google is your friend here.
Cheers,
Brett
Chris Sherlock
Established
Start with something simple and cheap. An Agfa Silette, Kodak Retinette, or similar. Buy two the same, one to actually repair after you bugger-up the first one.
Ideally find a camera that you can also find a service manual for, or at least a parts list.
Get some screwdrivers, tweezers and small pliers to start with, add other tools as you need them.
Check this website too...
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/camera-fix/info
And the now-dead Classic Camera Repair Forum
http://rangefinderforum.com/classics/forum/messages/board-topics.html
Regards, Chris
Ideally find a camera that you can also find a service manual for, or at least a parts list.
Get some screwdrivers, tweezers and small pliers to start with, add other tools as you need them.
Check this website too...
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/camera-fix/info
And the now-dead Classic Camera Repair Forum
http://rangefinderforum.com/classics/forum/messages/board-topics.html
Regards, Chris
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
You'll need a few things, besides patience (lots of patience):
-good set of tools
-some repair manuals
-parts cameras
-ballz
enjoy!
-good set of tools
-some repair manuals
-parts cameras
-ballz
enjoy!
andrewtc4
Newbie
Thank you very much for the replies, I just have to get over the hump.
Livesteamer
Well-known
Welcome to RFF. You might try buying a few old Russian cameras to work on. An inexpensive way to get to know some camera repair. Good Luck, Joe
One other point to consider would be the types of cameras you might prefer to own and use. Do you like SLRs or rangefinders? Focal plane shutters or leaf shutters? Have a think about that and then look to first build your repair skills in relation to the types of cameras and shutters you most prefer. In my case, for various reasons most of the cameras I like to use, whether 35mm or medium format, tend to have a Compur shutter. It's no surprise that the first shutter I tackled was a Synchro Compur. And although I have successfully managed to get a number of cameras with focal plane shutters working again, I still prefer to work on a lens shutter. There's some personal preference there. But recently, I've been looking into early Contax shutter peculiarities. Your own abilities as they develop will tend to reflect your unique interests, too.
If you find yourself leaning towards cameras with lens shutters I suggest picking up some cheaper scale focus or rangefinder models with Prontor shutters (or even a medium format folder for that matter, there is no requirement for you to restrict yourself to 35mm). Older Prontors have less moving parts than a Compur Rapid or Synchro Compur and are a bit simpler, making them a better starting point.
With focal plane shutter candidates it is hard to go past an older model Praktica with cloth curtains. They are about as simple as it gets, and as a bonus they tended to have a seperate film rail plate that simply unscrews and a speed escapement easily reached under the bottom cover, offering unparalleled accessibility to many parts of the mechanism without the major disassembly other designs usually dictate. I can't think of a more user friendly configuration to start off with, and, although Japanese SLRs might vary considerably with the architecture of their shutter installations, the basics of curtain relationship, tensioning, and so on, are all still just as relevant to the Prakticas. And as a bonus, old Prakticas are still very cheap in the US. Some models such as the FX series and IV can be enjoyable to actually use, and of course, the M42 mount offers so many affordable (or not so affordable) lens options.
So, take a moment to reflect on where your interests lie, and direct your efforts, intitially, to mastering some basic repair operations relevant to those interests.
Cheers,
Brett
If you find yourself leaning towards cameras with lens shutters I suggest picking up some cheaper scale focus or rangefinder models with Prontor shutters (or even a medium format folder for that matter, there is no requirement for you to restrict yourself to 35mm). Older Prontors have less moving parts than a Compur Rapid or Synchro Compur and are a bit simpler, making them a better starting point.
With focal plane shutter candidates it is hard to go past an older model Praktica with cloth curtains. They are about as simple as it gets, and as a bonus they tended to have a seperate film rail plate that simply unscrews and a speed escapement easily reached under the bottom cover, offering unparalleled accessibility to many parts of the mechanism without the major disassembly other designs usually dictate. I can't think of a more user friendly configuration to start off with, and, although Japanese SLRs might vary considerably with the architecture of their shutter installations, the basics of curtain relationship, tensioning, and so on, are all still just as relevant to the Prakticas. And as a bonus, old Prakticas are still very cheap in the US. Some models such as the FX series and IV can be enjoyable to actually use, and of course, the M42 mount offers so many affordable (or not so affordable) lens options.
So, take a moment to reflect on where your interests lie, and direct your efforts, intitially, to mastering some basic repair operations relevant to those interests.
Cheers,
Brett
mooge
Well-known
a few more opinions-
-I'd recommend starting with a Japanese camera. One of my first 'repairs' (there was nothing wrong with it, really) was a Canon FTb. It comes apart quite nicely, and best of all, shouldn't require much tweaking when you put it back together. That's what I've found about Japanese cameras - you take them apart, clean the mechanisms, and everything works when you put it back together. German cameras in my experience require alot of careful adjusting before they'll work. I wouldn't recommend a Russian camera to start on for the same reason, but this is all with my limited sample size (8 Japanese, 4 German, 2 Russian or so)
- For lenses, I've had a lot more luck working on rangefinder lenses... they're definitely simpler than SLR lenses though since the auto-diaphragm is not needed.
- there's probably alot of good starter cameras, and there are also cameras to definitely avoid. The Leicaflex comes to mind for me - that camera incredibly complicated for no reason. so yeah, if you have a Leicaflex... work your way up to it first.
good luck!
-I'd recommend starting with a Japanese camera. One of my first 'repairs' (there was nothing wrong with it, really) was a Canon FTb. It comes apart quite nicely, and best of all, shouldn't require much tweaking when you put it back together. That's what I've found about Japanese cameras - you take them apart, clean the mechanisms, and everything works when you put it back together. German cameras in my experience require alot of careful adjusting before they'll work. I wouldn't recommend a Russian camera to start on for the same reason, but this is all with my limited sample size (8 Japanese, 4 German, 2 Russian or so)
- For lenses, I've had a lot more luck working on rangefinder lenses... they're definitely simpler than SLR lenses though since the auto-diaphragm is not needed.
- there's probably alot of good starter cameras, and there are also cameras to definitely avoid. The Leicaflex comes to mind for me - that camera incredibly complicated for no reason. so yeah, if you have a Leicaflex... work your way up to it first.
good luck!
Moto-Uno
Moto-Uno
Sorry I just couldn't resist it ! Not to mention that damned commie camera cost me $200.
Peter
ps: I'd succeeded in resuscitating quite a few cameras before this one totally pi''ed me off .
Chris101
summicronia
Oh, that is painful!
Chris Sherlock
Established
That's a very unhappy-looking folder you have there Peter, what is the story behind that mess?
Regards, Chris
Regards, Chris
Moto-Uno
Moto-Uno
^ Speeds became slower and then erratic, time for the lens removal and a shutter flush with my favourite 99% alcohol. Seems those old commie cameras have a thing about alcohol!! Well after an entire evening of flush and dry and finally soaking and drying and it continued to get worse , I decided I hated 6x6 commie cameras and satisfied the inner beast ! I don't remember the last time I felt soooooooooo good about ending a relationship. Kept the lenses though, could you use them? Peter
R
rick oleson
Guest
Bill Clark
Veteran
Welcome!
I learn from viewing here.
Also, I participate hoping to help.
I learn from viewing here.
Also, I participate hoping to help.
Chris Sherlock
Established
The only real sure-fired way to deal with a sticky shutter is go all-out and to strip it right down, and then clean every component to remove all the unwanted oils and dried-out grease, along with the dust that has built-up in the mechanism.
You can sometimes get an improvement, often only temporary, by carefully swabbing oily shutter blades repeatedly with a suitable solvent, not alcohol though, which is just about useless in this regard.
Regards, Chris
You can sometimes get an improvement, often only temporary, by carefully swabbing oily shutter blades repeatedly with a suitable solvent, not alcohol though, which is just about useless in this regard.
Regards, Chris
Moto-Uno
Moto-Uno
^ Chris, the only suitable solvent that comes to mind would have been gasoline and a match ! But,then that may have been evident from the earlier photo. That 99% alcohol has been successful on a few other occasions. Peter
R
rick oleson
Guest
I have to second Chris on this, I have never found alcohol to be effective for cleaning sticky lubricants out of a shutter. Cigarette lighter fluid is my first choice; CRC "QD" electronic cleaner in an aerosol can appears to be safe and effective if you need something that dries faster.
farlymac
PF McFarland
One thing to consider is the space where you will be doing the repairs. If it's a dedicated area, set up some good lighting from three points (L, R, and Above). If it's not someplace you can just leave stuff till you get back to it, then use plastic containers to hold the dis-assembled parts between work sessions.
Use something like some cheap micro-fiber cloths on your work surface to catch small parts that might fall out unnoticed. Also, small patches of paper towel laid on the micro-fiber to absorb the oils and gunk from whatever you are tearing down, then peel them off and toss. Much cheaper than replacing the micro-fiber each time. A good grade of cotton swabs (ones that don't shed everywhere) come in real handy for cleaning parts. Go to the cosmetics aisle and get the shaped ones for mascara (one end is pointy, the other club shaped), and some application pads for applying cleaners to large surfaces. You can also get the ones on wooden sticks at hardware stores when doing some heavy duty gunk removal. Paper towels for setting dirty and clean parts on, and keeping your hands clean. And some nitrile gloves so you don't absorb chemicals into your skin.
Have strong magnets for picking up parts that fall on the floor, especially if you are working in a carpeted area. This won't help with brass stuff though. Springs love to go flying, and detent ball bearings fall out without making a sound.
Some of the cleaners I use, and their main purpose:
Windex; cleaning the outside of dirty cameras, especially all the nooks and crannies around the top plate.
Lens Cleaner Fluid; If you can find it. Or make your own with a mix of 50% rubbing alcohol and a few drops of mild detergent.
Lighter Fluid; Best thing for cleaning shutters, particularly ones that have been "lubed". Also removes sticky stuff from the camera exterior.
Lysol Multi-Surface Spray; Very useful on the exterior of a camera that's been stored in a damp basement.
Leather Cleaner and Conditioner; I use the Guardsman brand myself, but there are others out there. For cleaning and rejuvenating camera coverings, and cases.
Bamboo kabob skewers come in handy for removing old seals from camera backs, as they can be shaped to fit the grooves. Wooden dowel rods and a brass hammer are good for removing dents from filter rings without smashing the threads.
One of my best tools is a kitchen jar opener I use for removing stuck filters, and other recalcitrant round parts. The stuff you put in the bottom of a drawer to keep things from sliding around comes in a roll, and can be cut off to make whatever size and shape gripper you need. Plastic jar and bottle caps can be utilized as something to hold the gripper pad material, and also loose parts for cleaning with lighter fluid.
And get a magnifying hood. Even if you are near sighted.
PF
Use something like some cheap micro-fiber cloths on your work surface to catch small parts that might fall out unnoticed. Also, small patches of paper towel laid on the micro-fiber to absorb the oils and gunk from whatever you are tearing down, then peel them off and toss. Much cheaper than replacing the micro-fiber each time. A good grade of cotton swabs (ones that don't shed everywhere) come in real handy for cleaning parts. Go to the cosmetics aisle and get the shaped ones for mascara (one end is pointy, the other club shaped), and some application pads for applying cleaners to large surfaces. You can also get the ones on wooden sticks at hardware stores when doing some heavy duty gunk removal. Paper towels for setting dirty and clean parts on, and keeping your hands clean. And some nitrile gloves so you don't absorb chemicals into your skin.
Have strong magnets for picking up parts that fall on the floor, especially if you are working in a carpeted area. This won't help with brass stuff though. Springs love to go flying, and detent ball bearings fall out without making a sound.
Some of the cleaners I use, and their main purpose:
Windex; cleaning the outside of dirty cameras, especially all the nooks and crannies around the top plate.
Lens Cleaner Fluid; If you can find it. Or make your own with a mix of 50% rubbing alcohol and a few drops of mild detergent.
Lighter Fluid; Best thing for cleaning shutters, particularly ones that have been "lubed". Also removes sticky stuff from the camera exterior.
Lysol Multi-Surface Spray; Very useful on the exterior of a camera that's been stored in a damp basement.
Leather Cleaner and Conditioner; I use the Guardsman brand myself, but there are others out there. For cleaning and rejuvenating camera coverings, and cases.
Bamboo kabob skewers come in handy for removing old seals from camera backs, as they can be shaped to fit the grooves. Wooden dowel rods and a brass hammer are good for removing dents from filter rings without smashing the threads.
One of my best tools is a kitchen jar opener I use for removing stuck filters, and other recalcitrant round parts. The stuff you put in the bottom of a drawer to keep things from sliding around comes in a roll, and can be cut off to make whatever size and shape gripper you need. Plastic jar and bottle caps can be utilized as something to hold the gripper pad material, and also loose parts for cleaning with lighter fluid.
And get a magnifying hood. Even if you are near sighted.
PF
Moto-Uno
Moto-Uno
Chris and Rick , I'd be the last guy on earth to question your suggestions about lighter fluid, I'd used it ( Ronsonol ) on my Mockba's to great success, but it just didn't seem to
finish the job ( this time ), so I was onto the alcohol. Possibly, if my patience had held and my supply of Ronsonol was greater, who knows ! Did get some great pics from that camera though. Anyone want the lenses from that camera ? Postage and they're yours.
Peter
finish the job ( this time ), so I was onto the alcohol. Possibly, if my patience had held and my supply of Ronsonol was greater, who knows ! Did get some great pics from that camera though. Anyone want the lenses from that camera ? Postage and they're yours.
Peter
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi,
A minor point but a lot of people seem to throw away Olympus XA2's once they've failed and they are dirt cheap to pick up. Plus there are repair manuals and blogs about repairing them. They'd be a good place to start imo and do a bit of good as well.
Regards, David
A minor point but a lot of people seem to throw away Olympus XA2's once they've failed and they are dirt cheap to pick up. Plus there are repair manuals and blogs about repairing them. They'd be a good place to start imo and do a bit of good as well.
Regards, David