Where's the grain ?

Moto-Uno

Moto-Uno

Moto-Uno
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So yesterday I took my trusty little Retina 111c loaded with Delta 3200 and go to my favourite hiking place in search of really grainy photos, shoot it and develop it at 12500. (D76 1+0 and 17 min's) From what I was told I should have golf ball size grain. I also had my Mockba-5 with the same film and exposures ( almost totally without grain ). I under exposed and overexposed 1 stop for most of the pics.(these taken from my Twinmate exposure meter), these are a straight scan of negs from Epson V600.
Sooooo, what would you suggest I do for more grain? Peter
 
It looks like you have quite a 'meaty' exposure what I expect to be shadows look quite detailed and open the highlights a little hot.
D3200 has a wide tonal range and at its nominal ISO rating (1000) low contrast in most developers.
Ilford did this on purpose so you could push the hell out of it and not get too much contrast, I regularly go to 6400 with the 120 version in Rodinal and Microphen without too much grain or contrast.
This is 6400 in 120 Rodinal.

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Its a great film I mainly use it for interior and gig shots, outside in daylight I'd prefer 400 speed.
 
^There really doesn't seem to be any excess grain in that photo either,specially since it's been developed in the substance I've been told to use to get grain !! And the included pic is a straight scan of the neg from my Mockba-5 using Delta 3200 at 12500 and it too is quite low on the "grain scale". Who'd a thunk getting grain would actually be
hard to achieve ? Peter


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Get a real scanner? Or maybe figure out where the real focus point of yours is. The whole thing looks mushy like a bad scan, to me.
 
Considering it was taken in the early morning while on a lightly swinging suspension bridge I'm kinda pleased I succeeded in getting even this! The attempted focus spot was on the
tree branches on the left. FWIW I'm using an Epson V600, is there something in the scanning that you think would help bring out grain ? I've tried a number of dpi settings and it's to no avail. Regards,Peter
 
The picture looks pretty grainy to me. But try Rodinal and generously expose Delta 3200.

And try scanning with all auto functions switched off - no sharpening, auto exposure... switch it of in the configurations menu. I scan as a colour transparency, 48-bit, 3200dpi. You'll get a very flat image.

Once you open it with whichever editing program you use - greyscale, invert, flip/rotate (whichever you need), levels, unsharpen. I use paintshop pro x4 - sharpening twice at 1 pixel, 300 brings up the grain.
 
^ This I'll try,should be a bit of a learning curve, the scanner came with PS Elements 9 and I've tried very few of it's functions. Wish me luck ! Peter
 
For grain;

Take out a 35mm SLR.
Put a 28mm lens on it.
Stand way back from the subject.
Crop like crazy to make the subject big enough to see on a 8X10.
By this I mean to enlarge only an 8X10 mm section of the negative.
(Turn your enlarger around and project on the floor if you have to.)

If you have a good enlarger lens, you'll get grain, lots of it. (after all, that is a 25X enlargement factor)
 
^ That sounds way more up my alley, almost no learning curve and less time playing with
software. ( And I'm sure the computer methods would work, BUT, I'm an analog kinda guy ).
Peter
 
I wet print too, and found that scanning the print gives me a better image then scanning from the negative. I get more of what is on the negative - less is lost.

Good luck
 
I don't see any grain to speak of, either. But the first picture has a lot of detail, and grain has a way of melting into fine detail. In your second picture, the low contrast might be minimizing the impression of grain.
 
Have you tried pushing HP5+ several stops? I always thought it looked pretty grainy even at box speed and I expect if you pushed it to 1600 or 3200 in HC110 or Rodinal, it wouldn't look smoother . . . .
 
Epson flatbeds do smooth grain quite a bit. If you have access. Shoot a roll of 35mm and scan with a Nikon Coolscan IV, V, or 5000 (or later) at full scanner resolution....Then you will see grain.
I'm constantly frustrated by how little grain shows up when scanning with an Epson V700 in medium and large format.
I can see the grain with my loupe but it just looks like softness in the scans.
 
You may be onto something with this Epson flatbed smoothing grain. Next night or two I'll
return to the dark closet and see if I can get a grainy print, may try up to 11x14 with the 35mm neg. That should pretty well bring on the grain ! ( I hope ) Peter
 
Use a loupe and take a look at your negs on the light table. If you see grain it's there and the scanner is the issue :)
 
I bet when you go to focus the enlarger and use a fine focus tool you will see those golf balls in all of their glory.
 
^ Well I'm really hoping both of you guys are right, my obsession with razor sharp pics is in
for an eye opening very soon ! Thanks for the encouragement, Peter
 
That will sound odd, but I use 3200 in very strange way. Expose it at 400 and develop as 3200 in Rodinal. Can post some results later when I'll be back home.
 
I look forward to seeing these, I finally printed a shot from the 35mm neg last night. Projected it to about an 11 x 14 and used 8 x 10 paper, I believe I've found a bit of grain.
Will post later too. Peter
 
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