Leica LTM Which 50 Elmar for BW prints? Or just Cron.

Leica M39 screw mount bodies/lenses
Ko.Fe.

Ko.Fe.

Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
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I had 50mm typ 1 Cron and Elmar-M 50 2.8.
Both were totally awesome lenses on BW darkroom prints. And so were Summar and Summitar.

50 collapsible Cron, Elmar-M 50 2.8 (m for modern :) and Summitar had something which is difficult for me to describe. They were not just sharp, but with rich rendering in micro details.
Something which is missing on negatives taken by Summarit 50 1.5, Canon 50 1.8 LTM, Jupiters-3/8, Industars and Crons from Rigid to IV. Some of those lenses have nice rendering on bw prints, but they are missing pop up in micro details.
So was Summar, but its deep diapason of contrast was revealing astonishing amount of details.

I have Leica IIIc and SBOOI now, but I don't have Leitz lens to match this kit. I would like to try some LTM Elmar 50 lens, which is similar in rendering to collapsible Cron or Elmar-M 50 2.8, has this rich amount of micro contrast.
Or just get old collapsible Cron in LTM?
 
"Elmar" lenses are always different from "Sum[...]" lenses because they are four element triplets. They draw different, they have less "plasticity" compared to the "Sum[...]" wich have six or seven elements. "Elmar" lenses can be very sharp, see the Elmar-M. But you want an LTM lens.

Easy: try a Cosina Color Skopar 50mm f/2.5!

gelatin silver print (color skopar 50) leica III

Erik.

49547675632_2d3b5a8c72_b.jpg
 
I would go with the Summitar, I really like that lens and it would be vintage matched perfect with your IIIc.
 
I have a Summitar that has an extreme barrel vault distortion. But it is an early uncoated one. Maybe the later ones are better.

Don't forget that the VC Color Skopar is made for the LTM-Leicas. The LTM Voigtländer cameras are all worn out by now.

Erik.
 
My Bessa R is going strong. Partly because I rarely use it. But it's not worn out ;)
Collapsible summicron has always looked good to me. But I don't have one yet. My elmar 2.8 original is pretty nice and lower contrast.....but it's M mount so can't use it on any of my barnacks (or Bessa R). We all know how the 3.5 elmar performs.... but a little slow.
Good luck with the quest.
 
I agree with Erik that the CV Skopar 50/2.5 is a terrific lens and pairs perfectly with a Leica IIIc. But if you’re looking for a Leitz lens to go with your IIIc, why not look for another Summitar? A post-war sample in good condition would be a great match for the IIIc. I have never noticed distortion from my 1949 coated sample (or, for that matter, my uncoated 1939 sample either), although I don’t take the kind of photos where distortion would be a problem. I do see 3D effects from my coated Summitar that are quite pleasing to my eye...
Healdsberg, CA by bingley0522, on Flickr

The shoppers by bingley0522, on Flickr
 
Bingley said:
I agree with Erik that the CV Skopar 50/2.5 is a terrific lens and pairs perfectly with a Leica IIIc. But if you’re looking for a Leitz lens to go with your IIIc, why not look for another Summitar? A post-war sample in good condition would be a great match for the IIIc. I have never noticed distortion from my 1949 coated sample (or, for that matter, my uncoated 1939 sample either), although I don’t take the kind of photos where distortion would be a problem. I do see 3D effects from my coated Summitar that are quite pleasing to my eye...
Healdsberg, CA by bingley0522, on Flickr

The shoppers by bingley0522, on Flickr
Click to expand...

Steve, those pictures are terrific!

My Summitar has the serial 508151 which is from 1939, the first year of production. The lens is mint, but has a terrible distortion.

I will look for a postwar example. Not often seen, however.

Erik.
 
Thank you, Erik! Post-war Summitars don’t seem to be all that rare here in the U.S. Sherry Krauter occasionally has them for sale on her site (she’s a big fan of the Summitar). I picked up my coated 1949 sample a few years ago from a member here, Don (X-Ray), and it’s in excellent condition. Here’s another pic for you from that lens:

Keizersgracht by bingley0522, on Flickr
 
Thank you, Steve, I love this Dutch bokeh!

Do you have a shot with the Summitar with a straight line close to the top or the bottom of the image parallel to the picture frame? Like this one (with the Color Skopar):

48014904438_8eff808f5a_b.jpg


Would be interesting to compare.

Thanks!

Erik.
 
I probably sold most prints shot with Elmer-M 50/2.8 (90s version). I still have it and it’s a fantastic lens.
 
Bingley said:
I agree with Erik that the CV Skopar 50/2.5 is a terrific lens and pairs perfectly with a Leica IIIc. But if you’re looking for a Leitz lens to go with your IIIc, why not look for another Summitar? A post-war sample in good condition would be a great match for the IIIc. I have never noticed distortion from my 1949 coated sample (or, for that matter, my uncoated 1939 sample either), although I don’t take the kind of photos where distortion would be a problem. I do see 3D effects from my coated Summitar that are quite pleasing to my eye...
Healdsberg, CA by bingley0522, on Flickr

The shoppers by bingley0522, on Flickr
Click to expand...

Steve, nice touch with your processing of the b&w -- lovely, full range of tones.
 
https://flic.kr/p/z9sBnZ
Bingley said:
I don’t have many of such pictures with the coated Summitar, Erik.

Trio by bingley0522, on Flickr
Click to expand...

I love this shot!

Thank you, Steve, for showing the pictures!

In the shots with the earlier lens I think I see about as much distortion as in mine.

I guess that in 1939 this was not much of a problem, but now, when pictures are often seen on a screen, I find it a bit disturbing. However, I will keep my eyes open for a later example. Great lens.

Erik.
 
@brusby: Thank you for your comments. The picture of the bicycle was taken on Fomapan 200; the picture of the shoppers was taken on TMax 400. I used HC 110 as the developer for both films.

@Erik: Thank you for your comments. My decision to use the uncoated Summitar for the “Foglandia” project in SF was due to the way the lens renders, particularly the somewhat desaturated rendering of colors, rather than its correction for distoration (or lack thereof). The coated Summitar is a wonderful lens. I love using it for landscapes and street photography. It’s pretty darn sharp...

Healdsberg by bingley0522, on Flickr


The White Place by bingley0522, on Flickr
 
Thanks for optical formulas info everyone knows...
I don't want another Cosina lens. And "thanks" for color film scans which has nothing to do with what I was asking for.

Looks like collapsible Cron is the only answer so far...

16469854775_c557af8c7e_o.jpg
 
I got the collapsible summicron 50mm in screw mount on the leica II.
I'm not looking for another 50mm. In my pants pocket all the time!
 
Ko.Fe. said:
And "thanks" for color film scans which has nothing to do with what I was asking for.

Looks like collapsible Cron is the only answer so far...”
Click to expand...

My apologies. The color scans were intended to respond to a question about distortion in the Summitar. Since your original post mentioned the Summitar, I thought you might still be interested in that lens, but I guess not... Good luck finding a collapsible Cron in decent condition...
 
Bingley said:
@Erik: Thank you for your comments. My decision to use the uncoated Summitar for the “Foglandia” project in SF was due to the way the lens renders, particularly the somewhat desaturated rendering of colors, rather than its correction for distoration (or lack thereof). The coated Summitar is a wonderful lens. I love using it for landscapes and street photography. It’s pretty darn sharp..
Click to expand...

Thank you Steve. I'll look for a coated post war Summitar. The condition of the coating will be foremost important.These old coated lenses ... the same problem as with the collapsible Summicron. I have however a coated Summicron in perfect condition.

Kostja, don't think that the Color Skopar is an average early Cosina lens. It is the crown jewel of the whole series, not only optically, but also mechanically.

Erik.
 
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