MacDaddy
Certified Machead
I'm still debating how wide I want to go to jump back into RF film photography. Doing mainly landscape/nature/architectural shooting, I usually am shooting at 50mm or wider.
Since I'm on a budget, the choices I'm considering are: Bessa R2M w/35/1.4 and the Bessa R4M with the new Ultron 28/2.0. I'm creeping up on 60 and wear bifocals, so that viewfinder needs to be considered too. My absolute TOP budget is just at $2000 USD, delivered. Anyone care to throw their choices/suggestions into this? Thoughts on why or why not either of the body/lens choices I'm considering?
Since I'm on a budget, the choices I'm considering are: Bessa R2M w/35/1.4 and the Bessa R4M with the new Ultron 28/2.0. I'm creeping up on 60 and wear bifocals, so that viewfinder needs to be considered too. My absolute TOP budget is just at $2000 USD, delivered. Anyone care to throw their choices/suggestions into this? Thoughts on why or why not either of the body/lens choices I'm considering?
back alley
IMAGES
hey rob, sorry for not getting back to you...
my only concern is with the faster lenses on the cv bodies. i could easily focus the 35/1.4 on the zi but got poor results on the r4a. i'm 57 and wear tri-focals (progressive lenses).
the build quality of the r4a is great and the r3a seems as well built also.
the r4a has a lovely finder for wides and for 28 especially so as there are only the 28 framelines in there. not too sure how the 28/2 would focus but the 28/3.5 is a very sharp and small lens. for landscapes do you need a fast lens?
the zeiss ikon is a beautiful camera with a great finder and a long base length so it can focus most anything. i love looking through that finder.
it is very well built and has a very good meter built in to it.
i use a wrist strap on all my cameras most of the time and have not noticed any wear on my lugs.
not sure if any of this helps...
joe
my only concern is with the faster lenses on the cv bodies. i could easily focus the 35/1.4 on the zi but got poor results on the r4a. i'm 57 and wear tri-focals (progressive lenses).
the build quality of the r4a is great and the r3a seems as well built also.
the r4a has a lovely finder for wides and for 28 especially so as there are only the 28 framelines in there. not too sure how the 28/2 would focus but the 28/3.5 is a very sharp and small lens. for landscapes do you need a fast lens?
the zeiss ikon is a beautiful camera with a great finder and a long base length so it can focus most anything. i love looking through that finder.
it is very well built and has a very good meter built in to it.
i use a wrist strap on all my cameras most of the time and have not noticed any wear on my lugs.
not sure if any of this helps...
joe
ferider
Veteran
Sounds strange, but you might want a .... self-timer.
So I recommend, Leica M2, Color Skopar 35/2.5, 28/3.5, external CV 28mm viewfinder and a classic 90/2.8 Elmarit v1, or the CV Apo-Lanthar. The 90mm lens is great for landscapes.
You'll still have money left after that.
Cheers,
Roland.
So I recommend, Leica M2, Color Skopar 35/2.5, 28/3.5, external CV 28mm viewfinder and a classic 90/2.8 Elmarit v1, or the CV Apo-Lanthar. The 90mm lens is great for landscapes.
You'll still have money left after that.
Cheers,
Roland.
MacDaddy
Certified Machead
Back Alley:
I do a lot of interior shots in historic buildings that are in various states of decay and disrepair as well as being dimly lit, so there is a fair amount of available light shooting. In fact, even with my D300 the only flash I have and use is the one built into it, so I tend toward the fastest lenses I can afford (at least for digital!).
I have lusted after the ZI, which brings up a question I haven't seen answered anywhere on the forum (at least, I haven't found it!) and that is, how about the ZI's viewfinder with either a 28 or 35 lens, regardless of lens speed?
Roland, that is a very interesting suggestion! Hadn't thought about trying to find a Leica simply because of lack of knowledge and funds! Checking KEH in Atlanta, they do seem to have some at reasonable prices. Hmmm! Now I have to check the classifieds here n the forum as well. 8o)
I do a lot of interior shots in historic buildings that are in various states of decay and disrepair as well as being dimly lit, so there is a fair amount of available light shooting. In fact, even with my D300 the only flash I have and use is the one built into it, so I tend toward the fastest lenses I can afford (at least for digital!).
I have lusted after the ZI, which brings up a question I haven't seen answered anywhere on the forum (at least, I haven't found it!) and that is, how about the ZI's viewfinder with either a 28 or 35 lens, regardless of lens speed?
Roland, that is a very interesting suggestion! Hadn't thought about trying to find a Leica simply because of lack of knowledge and funds! Checking KEH in Atlanta, they do seem to have some at reasonable prices. Hmmm! Now I have to check the classifieds here n the forum as well. 8o)
back alley
IMAGES
the zi finder is like looking through a picture window.
it is elegant and simple.
and that m2 is ancient and will most likely need a cla before it will be up to snuff.
it is elegant and simple.
and that m2 is ancient and will most likely need a cla before it will be up to snuff.
MacDaddy
Certified Machead
8o) Sounds like the ZI is the way to go! The advantage there would be that even with either lens OR a slower/narrower one I'd be able to squeak it into that budget. I'll let everyone know, because I need to decide and get it before Labor Day when I go to Pleasant Hill, KY and the Shaker Village. Now THAT will be a fun photo shoot!
Rogier
Rogier Willems
Why don't you look into a Zeiss Ikon body with a Zeiss lens. This should keep you within budget. Better quatliy overall...
Just my 2 cents
Just my 2 cents
35mmdelux
Veni, vidi, vici
Think Sam Abell. Get an M6 and Ultron 28mm/2.0 and you will pocket about $400 off your $2000 budget. The 28mm is a superb landscape lens. The Ultron is reasonably fast, which makes it a great avail light lens to boot.
enjoy the journey. Paul
enjoy the journey. Paul
Last edited:
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
Rob, I would go for the R4M or A and the 28f2.0 Ultron as my first choice and add the 35f1.4 as a second lens.
The Ultron 28f2.0 workes extremely well on the ZI (it is on my right now). but the ZI,a Ultron 28f2.0 and the 35f1.4 would be pushing your budget. The advantage is that if you pick up a ZI later, both of these lenses are compatible with the camera.
I would also go for the R4M rather than the R4A. It is easier to control the exposures on a manual meter, particularly if you are using filters etc and also when you go into dark and gloomy interiors. The AE metering system works fine with even light, but an interior with light streaming in through windows will fool it AND the AE camera is battery dependant. Battery goes- so does the camera! Later when you succumb to the ZI you will have AE system anyway!
My two cents (OK, three cents allowing for the lousy $ and inflation).
Tom
The Ultron 28f2.0 workes extremely well on the ZI (it is on my right now). but the ZI,a Ultron 28f2.0 and the 35f1.4 would be pushing your budget. The advantage is that if you pick up a ZI later, both of these lenses are compatible with the camera.
I would also go for the R4M rather than the R4A. It is easier to control the exposures on a manual meter, particularly if you are using filters etc and also when you go into dark and gloomy interiors. The AE metering system works fine with even light, but an interior with light streaming in through windows will fool it AND the AE camera is battery dependant. Battery goes- so does the camera! Later when you succumb to the ZI you will have AE system anyway!
My two cents (OK, three cents allowing for the lousy $ and inflation).
Tom
MacDaddy
Certified Machead
Thanks to all for your feedback! I agree with Tom about battery independence; I was shooting at an old cotton gin mill in Atlanta this spring and lost the only battery I had at the time, with the end result being a lost afternoon to shoot after driving 75 miles to do it! And the width of that 28 is attractive too. Looking back at my habits with digital, roughly 50% of my shots are done at the equivalent of 26-30mm so it would hit a sweet spot for sure.
Like I said, stay tuned and I'll let you all know by next week what I wind up with! And again, thanks to ALL of you so very much for your wise suggestions!
Like I said, stay tuned and I'll let you all know by next week what I wind up with! And again, thanks to ALL of you so very much for your wise suggestions!
back alley
IMAGES
it's 2008 folks, batteries are a fact of life.
rob, did you drive your batteryless car that 75 miles.
this battery argument drives me crazy, i have extra batteries in each of my camera bags and more in my day bag. they are cheap, small and easy to put in most cameras.
rob, did you drive your batteryless car that 75 miles.
this battery argument drives me crazy, i have extra batteries in each of my camera bags and more in my day bag. they are cheap, small and easy to put in most cameras.
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
Yes, batteries are a fact of life - BUT Murphy's Law still applies. The batteries in your bag are a/the wrong ones or b/ they have mysteriously died and c/ you most likely cant poke at your AE camera with a screwdriver to make it work again!.
I like some of the AE features, but I also distrusts them. We do not agree all the time and sometimes I think that 45+ years of experience wins out over AE readings! All right, sometimes the camera is correct!
I like some of the AE features, but I also distrusts them. We do not agree all the time and sometimes I think that 45+ years of experience wins out over AE readings! All right, sometimes the camera is correct!
ferider
Veteran
A good M2 runs around US 600 max. A CLA by Youxin US 80. Then the "ancient" camera will hold up for another generation.
With a quieter shutter (less vibrations), more contrast in the RF patch (even though the viewfinder is dimmer), and a self-timer, for landscapes, the M2 runs circles around the ZI, in particular on a tripod.
Plus for true landscapes, AE doesn't help, a hand-held meter is necessary.
Best,
Roland.
Last edited:
Jamie Pillers
Skeptic
I had the R4a and 28 Ultron kit for awhile. I thought the viewfinder/28mm framelines of that camera were really excellent for a eyeglass wearer, like me. The 28 framelines were entirely viewable and took up nearly the whole viewfinder... perfect! I'd still have it, but I couldn't afford to keep it. :-(
back alley
IMAGES
A good M2 runs around US 600 max. A CLA by Youxin US 80. Then the "ancient" camera will hold up for another generation.
With a quieter shutter (less vibrations), more contrast in the RF patch (even though the viewfinder is dimmer), and a self-timer, for landscapes, the M2 runs circles around the ZI, in particular on a tripod.
Plus for true landscapes, AE doesn't help, a hand-held meter is necessary.
Best,
Roland.
rollie, you really like those self timers, eh?
i don't own a tripod...
MacDaddy
Certified Machead
rollie, you really like those self timers, eh?
i don't own a tripod...
8o) Well, I DO! And when I shoot static things, whether landscapes, nature, architectural, etc. I not only use the tripod, but either a cable or remote release, PLUS mirror lockup, whenever the camera supports it or I feel it's needed.
The one and only time I used a self timer was the dreaded Christmas family shot, and it kept going off before I could get completely into the photo! Darned thing; I think it was mocking me! *o)
ferider
Veteran
My tripod is one of the more expensive parts of my collection.
I do use cable release mostly, when with tripod.
But sometimes, when I don't have it with me, leaning the camera or myself against something and using the self-timer helps a lot. Like in a church or so ... Even hand-held it helps in available light. An old but sadly mostly forgotten technique.
For example: this was with a Zuiko 180/2.8, 100 ASA (only thing I had at the time) at a quarter of a second, wide open, leaning on a table. One out of 3 bracketed shots was a keeper (for me, at least):
Cheers,
Roland.
I do use cable release mostly, when with tripod.
But sometimes, when I don't have it with me, leaning the camera or myself against something and using the self-timer helps a lot. Like in a church or so ... Even hand-held it helps in available light. An old but sadly mostly forgotten technique.
For example: this was with a Zuiko 180/2.8, 100 ASA (only thing I had at the time) at a quarter of a second, wide open, leaning on a table. One out of 3 bracketed shots was a keeper (for me, at least):
Cheers,
Roland.
Last edited:
thomasw_
Well-known
A good M2 runs around US 600 max. A CLA by Youxin US 80. Then the "ancient" camera will hold up for another generation.
With a quieter shutter (less vibrations), more contrast in the RF patch (even though the viewfinder is dimmer), and a self-timer, for landscapes, the M2 runs circles around the ZI, in particular on a tripod.
Plus for true landscapes, AE doesn't help, a hand-held meter is necessary.
Best,
Roland.
I back the M2 and the two CV lenses suggestion. However an external finder is not necessary; instead just use Tom A's bright-window trick and use the entire viewfinder to frame the 28mm. It is clean, simple and accurate. Focussing with the fast 35/1,4 will NOT be an issue. As long as you have a hand held meter for tricky lighting, the M2 will be ready to take great photos.
35mmdelux
Veni, vidi, vici
My Hasselblad requires no batteries and my Leicas keep going in the event of batt failure. This is the way I prefer it. YMMV
back alley
IMAGES
i yield to the overpowering forces of leica, and to the hordes that use ancient cameras, tripods and self timers...
and continue to enjoy my shiny new cameras, vista like viewfinders and advanced coatings...
and continue to enjoy my shiny new cameras, vista like viewfinders and advanced coatings...