Which folder?

O

o0dano0o

Guest
Hi all,

I have a zeiss nettar with a f4.5 lens that is just too slow and it lacks a rangefinder. I bought it a long time ago, and use it rarely.

Any recommendations on a 120 folder with a rangefinder and faster lens? 6xWhatever is fine.

Thanks,
Dan
 
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depends on what you want to spend but the fujigs645 is supposed to be great with a 75f3.5 lens adn ionternal meter..
ive also heard good things about the russian iskra which i believe has a 75f3.5 lens , sadly i have no firsthand experiance...but the the wider fuji with a 6f4 lens is spectacular
 
you can't really go much faster than f4.5 with a MF folder...
I think the fastest lenses on folders ever were the f/2.8 Tessars on the super ikonta's. They go for extreme amounts usually, due to the f2.8 vs f3.5...And by some folks, the f2.8 lens is considered inferior...
If you want a COUPLED rangefinder you will pay alot more than for an uncoupled one, or an external one. Except if you get lucky like I did and find a super ikonta for 20 euro... True, it has the lesser novar-anastigmat 75/3.5 but it's not a bad lens at all...
 
75mm/3.5Tessar made (allegedly) with Zeiss glass, 6x6, automatic film transport, excellent RF/VF... It's called the Iskra and whilst the Iskra does bear more than a passing resemblance to the Super Ikonta IV, it is actually very largely based on the Agfa Super Isolette but with a longer RF baseline. There are some shots from mine in my gallery; it's not easy to find a good one and, when you do, it will set you back a good $200, but it's worth every penny.

William
 
Dan, I shoot with Agfas, which offered cameras that competed mostly within the Nettar/Ikonta class, but they did have one offering which clearly ranks in the Super Ikonta class, which is called the Super Isolette.

To add to Pherdinand's statement, you will have to slow down to use a classic medium format folder, but a built-in or auxilliary range finder does improve image quality. On my plebian Agfa Records - which are 6x9 shooters -, I even bring along a monopod just to buy a little insurance when shooting at 1/50th of a second. The point is you won't be shooting from the hip as one does with 35mm. At 1/25th of a second on a camera with a 105mm lens, I'm beginning to wish for a tripod.

The Super Ikonta class has all the bells and whistles. The best two being automated film winding versus having to use a red window to stop the film at the next frame and a coupled rangefinder. These two features speed up the shooting process considerably. You can even try your hand at action shots since you don't have to take your eye off the subject. Just remember to cock the shutter. Even my Super Speedex requires one to cock the shutter.

That said, the Ikonta class, which lacks the above features I mention can give similar results with an accessory range finder. Some do have built-in range finders, but they are uncoupled.

My Record III and Isolette III, which both have Solinars are two examples of cameras from the Ikonta class which have built-in uncoupled range finders. You use the range finder to determine the distance and then set the focus ring on the front of the lens appropriately. Setting the focus this way is not a big deal and the two Solinars, which are Tessar clones never fail to amaze me.

Finally, with regards to B&W I can compensate for the lack of a fast lens by pushing 400 Tri-X to either an EI of 800 or 1600 and do compensating development in XTOL. This buys just enough leeway to use the Record III indoors without a flash and the large 6x9 negs still make excellent prints up to 8x10 that blow away any I've made using Tri-X with 35mm.

I do have a lengthy web page on Agfa folders, you can see at (Agfa/Ansco Medium Format Folders) for more info than you'll ever need.
 
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Another vote for the Iskra - hard to beat one with a working winding mechanism; I got a second one as backup recently, for 89 USD BIN from 'alex-photo', my first one was bought from a Ukrainian student her in Vienna for about 90 USD (for 200 USD you might already get the rarer Iskra-2 (which has an uncoupled selenium meter)); I don't know what Fedka charges at the moment, though, might be closer to William's 200 USD...
What I also find quite cool are those small Welta folders, some of those have rangefinders and Tessars, but I don't have any personal experience with them...

Roman
 
Ikonta's and their clones with the built-in but uncoupled rangefinders tend to go for more $$$ than the ones without a rf PLUS a small external rf. I don't see the reason why - they are equivalent setups in my eye.
 
If you can get an Iskra in good working order they are great. I have two of each model and have no complaints. Also Moskva 4 and 5s are great.
 
One other thing we are forgetting to mention with regards to the Agfa Super Isolette and its Soviet copy, the Iskra. They are one of three vintage 6x6 folders that I know of that have unit focusing. It is a difference worth noting.

Pherdinand, in addition to their worth to collectors due to their rarity, one factor on why Zeiss Mess Ikontas have held their value is their build quality. My Isolette III and Record III are second class citizens in this regard. Before switching over to Agfas, I started out with a Zeiss Ikon 532/16 fitted with a Synchro-Compur and 2.8 Coated Opton Tessar. I also had a more convenient to use Super Ikonta IV, which in my opinion didn't really match the benchmark standard of the Super Ikonta B's build quality.

It was the Super Isolette, which my case is branded as an Ansco Super Speedex, which led me to sell my Zeiss Ikon Super Ikontas. While not quite up to the benchmark feel of the Super Ikonta B, the Super Speedex is much easier to use. Plus, it produces super quality images with a different more modern look and with the exception of the bellows material, it definitely beats the Super Ikonta IV in regards to build quality. It's that good.

On the other hand, if I were to grab hold of my Record III after shooting for a couple of days with a Mess Ikonta 524/2 or the Super Speedex - the difference in build quality would become readily aparant.

Both have Synchro Compur shutters with a Tessar formula lens, but on the Agfa leather gives way to vinyl and heavy guage, well plated brass gives way to cheaply plated thinner guage brass and steel. I happen to prefer the combined RF / viewfinder on the Agfa even if it has a short range finder base than its Zeiss cousin.

Do note that both the Mess Ikonta and the Record III suffer from squinty viewfinders. I've started using a 5cm Lietz finder with the Record and it's a much improved shooter.

******************

Finally, the Iskra without a doubt delivers the best bang for the buck. With that said, the Super Isolette was the Bavarian Agfa factory's finest moment and is a superbly well executed design.

After purchasing the Iskra, don't even pick up the Agfa. The Soviets did well in copying the Agfa, but the its build quality is a notch lower, yet very much better than the run of the mill Isolette or Nettar.

Little things on the Agfa built Super Isolette make it a joy to own. Some cameras have a great tactile feel when in use. This is one of them. It is buttery smooth to operate. The Synchro Compur shutter has such a pleasing schlick sound to it. It uses the same 29.5 mm screw on filters as a Kodak Retina, which I can leave on the camera. The unit focusing through the RF is a nice touch. Best of all, it is much easier to brinjg along than my Rolleicord whose viewfinder is a tremendous pleasure to use after composing with the Agfa. Simply put there are no regrets or second thoughts about purchasing this camera.
 
I have an Iskra if you're interested

I have an Iskra if you're interested

I have an Iskra that came back from Oleg (the film advance jammed). I haven't put any film through it since, but it was CLA'ed by Oleg so it should be fine. I had put a roll of Velvia through it before sending to him, and the lens is very nice and the viewfinder is as good as it gets with FSU equipment (comparable in brightness to my Kiev 5, but no brightline).

If you're interested, I'd be willing sell it for $125 shipped.

Steve
 
The Plaubel Makina 67 is a great camera. I believe it has a very good 80mm/2.8 lens.
I have the W67 which has a wider, slower lens.
I love it. 6 x 7 format and it fits in a jacket pocket when folded!
Problems with it are relative high cost and durability is not the greatest. But mine has been pretty reliable over the 20 years I've had it.
 
I am super happy with my Super Ikonta 533/16 II BX - it has a Tessar 2.8 - a ´built in rangefinder and a working light meter. I gives a great combination of oldstyle camera semi soft pictures in a heavy build but compact 6x6 folder - I have had folders of all kind but this to me is number one - on the other hand I could say that my Linhof Super Technica III 6x9 cm is a folder to and that camera beat the Ikonta imagequalty wise but it is rather heavy
 
I can personally attest to my pleasure with using the Super Ikonta 531/16, and the build quality is very nice. Other members should weigh in here because my memory is not good on the details, but I believe Agfa and Ansco produced cameras with front cell focusing lenses that are a little sharper than the Zeiss cameras. This has not been a concern for me because I like the aesthetic quality of the Tessar on my 531/16. The Agfa/Ansco cameras might be ones to also consider (someone will have to help out with the models I'm thinking of).
 
I second what Ruben has to say - the Super Ikonta BX with "Opton" Tessar 2.8 lens is an absolute corker of a camera (that means it's wonderful!) I like it so much that I think I might get another one if I can ever find a good deal again.
 
Hello,
taked easy and buy a Welta Weltax with a 3,5/75mm Tessar
T coated, very sharp and contrasty.
Is an 6x6 folder camera and with mask and Viewer for 4,5x6.
The Welta Weltax don't included a rangefinder, but where to find a other excellent folder with a Carl Zeiss Jena Tessa lens for 20 US $ ?
Buy for the rest of money a external rangefinder and all is ok.
 
Thanks, I wrote it at a time when there was a lot of BS regarding folders on that other photography forum. That's all changed since they added their classic pre-1970 forum.

The Isolette II is a take anywhere medium format camera. Early models do suffer from perished bellows. These are easily identified by their tarnished depth of field dials on the the top deck. Second generation Isolettes have a film reminder dial and do seem to have sturdier bellows, but still not as robust as those fitted to the Super Ikonta B.
 
P.S. After acquiring a Leitz 5cm bright-frame finder I have finally after 3 years fallen in love with my Record III. I'm grateful that I didn't sell it. 6x9 has all kinds of wiggle room in the darkroom.
 
Don't overlook the folding Mamiya 6. True, you have to cock the shutter manually on all but the last, most sophisticated model (which I've never seen) but other than that they're very nice to use, with a decent combined RF/VF, extremely rigid folding mechanism, and adept focusing via a conveniently-located thumb wheel. The lenses and shutters are from various OEM manufacturers but all of high quality.

One especially interesting thing about the 6 is that it does have the optical advantages of unit focusing, combined with an ultra-sturdy front standard and nearly bulletproof rangefinder coupling -- weak points on many folding RFs. How did they achieve this? It's simple (but clever) -- the lens is fixed rigidly in the front standard, and focusing (and rangefinder coupling) is accomplished by moving the film plane!

This means that all the moving parts needed for RF coupling and focusing are safely enclosed inside the main body, and don't have to be designed to hinge out of the way when you fold the camera. The mechanism for moving the film plane, incidentally, consists of cams on vertically-running axles, and is simple, robust, smooth-operating, and long-lasting, just like everything else on the camera.



Mamiya 6 story: Back when I used to photograph opera productions, I'd carry a late-model medium-format SLR for the full cast photos, and stuffed my Mamiya 6 in an end pocket of my bag as an emergency backup. Sure enough, one night with the full cast of "La Boheme" (100+ people) onstage for the photo and the opening-night curtain being held while we shot it, the SLR's innards got out of sync and it just stopped working. Trying not to look panicky, I whipped out the Mamiya 6, unfolded it, stuck it on the tripod, zipped off a quick bracketed series in a few seconds, and then scampered off with everyone else just in time for the show to start.

The publicity director hadn't been there to witness my camera emergency; all she saw were the final transparencies, a couple of days later. She said there seemed to be something different about them, and I said I had used a different camera. "Why don't you use this good camera all the time?" she said. "These are just so much clearer than usual."
 
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