which framelines to use for non 50-90-135 lenses on M3?

[chrispiper]

Hi,

I have an M3 and would like to use some non-supported focal length lenses - 28, 35 and 40 in particular. Will any of the M3's 50-90-135 framelines double for these lengths? Is there a guide for which M3 framelines will double for other focal lengths or do you have to just guesstimate?

Thanks,
Chris

 

[thomasw_]

Well the whole VF is a good approximation of the 40 lines, but not the others. The 50 lines are always present in the VF on a M3, of course. You could consider using an auxiliary finder for the 35 + 28 lines. There are lenses of the 35mm length that have goggles which convert the 50 M3 lines to 35 lines; the summaron 35/2,8 is one I know. Otherwise use an auxiliary finder or you will be guessing.

 

[ferider]

For "normal", un-goggled lenses:

28 will bring up 90mm.
35 will bring up 135mm.
75 will bring up 50 only.

There are goggled 35mm lenses (Summaron 3.5, 2.8, Summicron and Summilux) that bring up 50mm framelines only.

IMO, you will need an external viewfinder. the CV minifinder fits well and covers both 28 and 35.

Roland.

 

[drewbarb]

The tabs on the lenses which call up one of the three sets of frame lines on Leicas are all the same, regardless of what camera you mount them on. So a 28mm lens that will call up the doubled pair of 28/90 framelines in later M's will call up the 90mm lines on an M3. A 35mm lens will call up only the 135mm lines (unless it's a goggled 35mm for the M3, in which case it will call up the 50mm lines, and the goggles will magnify the field of view to cover 35mm); your 40mm lens should call up the 50mm lines- of course the 50mm lines are always visible with the M3, so technically I suppose I should say it won't show other frame lines.

To see accurate field of view for lenses wider than 50mm with an M3, you really need top mounted finders, or goggled lenses. However, I use a 40mm with my M3 quite happily, with no external finder; I just view with both eyes open and estimate some added coverage around the 50mm lines. With lenses of 28mm and wider, top mounted finders are easy to use; D.O.F. is so great that critical focusing is generally not really necessary- and when you need it, the higher magnification is really nice to have.

 

[next1]

The tabs on the lenses which call up one of the three sets of frame lines on Leicas are all the same, regardless of what camera you mount them on. So a 28mm lens that will call up the doubled pair of 28/90 framelines in later M's will call up the 90mm lines on an M3. A 35mm lens will call up only the 135mm lines (unless it's a goggled 35mm for the M3, in which case it will call up the 50mm lines, and the goggles will magnify the field of view to cover 35mm); your 40mm lens should call up the 50mm lines- of course the 50mm lines are always visible with the M3, so technically I suppose I should say it won't show other frame lines.

To see accurate field of view for lenses wider than 50mm with an M3, you really need top mounted finders, or goggled lenses. However, I use a 40mm with my M3 quite happily, with no external finder; I just view with both eyes open and estimate some added coverage around the 50mm lines. With lenses of 28mm and wider, top mounted finders are easy to use; D.O.F. is so great that critical focusing is generally not really necessary- and when you need it, the higher magnification is really nice to have.

You pretty much answered my question on a previous thread... Somebody else suggested to use the whole field of view on an M3 with a 35/2 without goggles, is that true?

 

[ferider]

You pretty much answered my question on a previous thread... Somebody else suggested to use the whole field of view on an M3 with a 35/2 without goggles, is that true?

Not for me, and I don't wear glasses. You can check yourself: the short (vertical) edge of the 35mm framelines is as long as the long (horizontal) edge of the 50mm framelines.

Cheers,

Roland.

 

[chrispiper]

>>
For "normal", un-goggled lenses:

28 will bring up 90mm.
35 will bring up 135mm.
75 will bring up 50 only.
<<

Is this a literal table, i.e. I can mount a 28mm lens and use the 90 frameline exactly and get the correct field of view?

I would like to avoid finders and goggles but would like the right field of view, am I wishing for the impossible? I can probably guesstimate a 40mm as a little extra space around the frame, but a 28 or 35 would be more than "just a little extra". Do you need a finder to know for sure or is the 28/90, 35/135, 75/50 going to give you the exact field of view?

Thanks,
Chris

 

[payasam]

As thomasw_ said, only the 40mm will work without an external finder. The mini-finder which Roland mentions is said by some to be considerably inferior to CV's single-length finders: perhaps too much of an economy.

 

[johannielscom]

I always use the 35mm without a finder on the M3.

Since the lenses' field extends a bit outside the viewfinder, you have a 'margin' for error.

The viewfinder on the M3 being 0.92 is what does the trick. I find I can open the other eye and still see the surroundings of the shot and anticipate on it. On the M5 and M8 I get a headache when I open the other eye as well 🙂

It's not like using a viewfinder with space outside the frame, but it's similarly easy once you get accustomed to it.

 

[ferider]

>>
For "normal", un-goggled lenses:

28 will bring up 90mm.
35 will bring up 135mm.
75 will bring up 50 only.
<<

Is this a literal table, i.e. I can mount a 28mm lens and use the 90 frameline exactly and get the correct field of view?

Hi Chris,

no, the table just shows you which frame lines come up. Roughly speaking, a 28mm lens has 50% more field of view than your M3 finder, so 28mm framelines would not fit.

An what Mukul said is right: the mini finder is good when you need both 35 and 28, and want a compact solution. But its barrel distortion is significant. The 28mm CV finder is much nicer, cheaper, but also bigger.

If you just use 28/50/90, the M3 with an external finder is a good camera, in particular if the 28mm is a big lens (like my 28/1.9). If you have a fast 90, there really is no better solution, since any other camera with 28mm framelines (like the M6, etc) has difficulties focusing the 90.

Best,

Roland.

 

[chrispiper]

I'll probably just guesstimate with the 35 and 40mm lenses. A 28 might be nice to try sometime but it's really wider than I usually shoot. I'm keen to try a fast 35 and the VC 40 1.4 SC so that's really where my interest lies. A finder's barrel distortion sounds bothersome and the M3's big bright viewfinder is a large appeal of the camera, I'd rather not compromise there.

I got the M3 as it was a "too good to pass up" deal but I'm finding out that maybe a M4 or M6 would be a better fit in terms of supported focal lengths. I can see where this is going to lead ...

Thanks to all for the quick advice, RFF has been a great resource.

Chris

 

[ferider]

The 40/1.4 S.C. is a phantastic lens. Really good. And, BTW, on the M3 brings up 50mm framelines only.

BTW, since you seem live in Sacramento (nice website!), there are several members up there you can discuss in person with. Also, if you come down to the Bay Area, we have a bunch of people here who are always up for a beer or so.

Cheers,

Roland.

 

[next1]

Hey Chris, I got the same "problem". I have a question for you since you are close to my location: how do you scan your images? I've seen your portfolio. Sweet images!!! I am new to Leica and migrating to film from digital (in a way).

 

[payasam]

Chris, unless you actually want another body, a 35mm finder is what you need. The focussing accuracy of the M3 is unmatched. If you want to use only 35mm and 50mm lenses -- and the second not at apertures wider than f/2.8 -- sell the M3 and get an M2 (or a Bessa R2).

 

[Austerby]

I've settled on using the VC 25mm wide-angle lens on my M3, with the separate viewfinder. It's not rangefinder coupled but it has useful notches that you can feel when focussing to set the distance. It's not sold new these days and you'll need an adaptor to fit it on the M3 but it's a really lovely little lens.

 

[Livesteamer]

Back in 1990 my first Leica was a good user M3 with a well used 35mm Summilux. I just used the whole finder and made a lot of good photos with that outfit. I still have both but now use the 35 on an M6. Yes, it's not super accurate that way but if you need really precise framing get a Nikon F. Joe

 

[Al Kaplan]

I think that a lot of us get to the point where we can just look at a scene, no camera in hand, and "see" the various frame lines outlining the compositions for us. If one doesn't fit we instinctively move forward or back a bit so when we raise the camera to our eye the framing is perfect. I guess that's why zoom lenses drive me nuts. Maybe a 28 to 90mm zoom with 35 and 50mm click stops?

 

[Livesteamer]

Fred mentioned that using the whole finder of the M3 for 35mm is a PITA and he is right. It got me by until I got a better body for 35mm. M3 and a 35mm Summilux is a bit of an odd choice but that's no surprise to folks who know me. For an external viewfinder I recently got a Russian 35 finder that works well and did not cost much. Good Luck. Joe

 

[chrispiper]

>>
The 40/1.4 S.C. is a phantastic lens. Really good. And, BTW, on the M3 brings up 50mm framelines only.

BTW, since you seem live in Sacramento (nice website!), there are several members up there you can discuss in person with. Also, if you come down to the Bay Area, we have a bunch of people here who are always up for a beer or so.
<<

The VC 40 is almost the whole reason I got into RF cameras. I was exclusively digital and somehow stumbled on Stephen Gandy's site. They had just come out with the R3A and the 40 1.4 and it just seemed like a great setup. I got an XA at a local shop based on the rave reviews people gave it and I've been hooked since. The Cannonet didn't grab me like the XA but I'll try it again. The M3 was kind of a happy accident but a very enjoyable one so far.

How do you find out who is in your city? Is there a directory?

And I'll be in SF this Saturday, taking the kids to the aquarium and then to the Tea Garden in GG Park. Really looking forward to shooting in the Tea Garden.

And thanks for the compliments on the site, it's pretty homebrew but it's enough for my little business. I haven't updated the images this year so it's getting stale. The rainy winter will provide some downtime to get it refreshed.

>>
Hey Chris, I got the same "problem". I have a question for you since you are close to my location: how do you scan your images? I've seen your portfolio. Sweet images!!! I am new to Leica and migrating to film from digital (in a way).
<<

I don't scan - yet. I had a nice relationship going with the local drugstore, until literally yesterday. They would develop only, then scan to .tiff at high resolution for a very reasonable price. So I walk in yesterday with three rolls and they've "upgraded" their machines and the manager says they can't override the film scanner. 4x6 jpgs is all you can get now for scanned files, a real downgrade.

So, after reading the "Scanners" forum all last night I decided to get an Epson V500 from their refurb listings. I should have the unit in a week or so and I'll try it out. I will post my findings if anyone's interested. There is a Nikon CoolScan in the classifieds right now but I'm leery of a used machine with little promise of factory service and dubious compatibility with OS X Leopard.

All of the images on my site are digital - from either my old 1D Mk I or the Mk II I traded up for last year. The film stuff is all personal, at least until I'm comfortable offering it as a paid service. If you want to see thousands of pix of my kids I can send you the link : ) Plenty of film stuff mixed in with the digital.

Chris

 

[chrispiper]

It seems a shame to start looking at other bodies already but I can see that it's either going to have to be a finder, goggled 35 lens or different body. I'm pretty well versed in used prices in the digital world, but have little idea of RF gear. Besides watching the classifieds here, how can you get an idea of prices?

And are people very inclined to swap here?

Chris