which is more important : body or lens?

[sf]

I really mean, which do YOU hold as most valuable?

Assuming that you are shooting with the same focal length, and the glass is not as distant in quality as, say, a scratched up old lens and a brand new Summicron, which would you say is more important to your photographic pleasure?

I mean, would you enjoy using an MP with a Nokton more than an R3A with a Summicron?

To me, in that case of the Nokton and the SUmmicron, the difference is not that much, and I would rather have the legendary body quality of the Leica so I could count on the camera for decades.

 

[FrankS]

I'm with you. While the lens forms the image on the film, you can get awfully good image quality from a $30 J-8. The body determines the ease of handling, and provides the viewfinder/rangefinder. For some reason, the tactile sensation of the camera body in my hands and the shutter sound (weird, right?) is important to me. I would get greater pleasure from using a Leica body with a C/V lens than vice versa.

 

[f/stopblues]

I tend to be on the other side of the fence. The glass is the piece of gear that actually renders the image. The body is just something to let light from lens to film. The quality (aesthetically speaking) is only as good as the lens is passes through. The body, in my eyes, needs to be adequate enough so as to not hinder your photographic ability. That varies of course. That's why I switched to RF's in the first place. I felt the big ol' SLR auto-everything was indeed too advanced and hindered what I shot and how often I went out/carried it with me. If I had $5k to burn, I'd drop it on a cheaper body and a few(couple) very nice lenses.

So to answer your question, I'd rather have the Bessa with a Summicron than the MP with CV. Of course, right now I have the Bessa and CV, but I'm a happy camper anyway 🙂

 

[caspert79]

The most important thing for me is image quality (and inspiration of course 😉 ).
With a bad lens there is no way to get good image quality. With a lousy body there's still a chance of making good quality pictures (as long as everything is functioning like it should and the body is light tight etc). So I prefer a misty viewfinder and clumsy ergonomics over a lens with no performance.

 

[aizan]

the body and lens act as a single unit, so you can't consider them separately.

 

[GeneW]

I can see this both ways. Without a good lens, you can't get an outstanding image, and a great lens is capable of images that can make a lasting impression. As a user of inexpensive cams (Zorki, Bessa), I've always been utilitarian in my feeling about bodies. But now that I'm using an M2, I'm revising my opinion....

Gene

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

Hmm...let's see. Could I take a picture with a lens without the camera, or a camera without a lens?

(to me) it looks like both are as important; I think the focus and priorities dictate which of either you'd rather concentrate on. Do you think that a picture is a picture is a picture? Then the lens may not be as important; the camera itself may not be, for that matter.

Do you think that shooting a javelin thrower from 1000+ meters away with the sharpest clarity is very important? Then perhaps a lens with Image Stab./Vibration Reduc/etc. with fine-grain high-speed film and/or high-end digital sensor with super fast FPS shutter rates is important.

What is more important? The paper on which your picture is printed? No matter how good or bad your lens or camera is, it means nothing if your picture is a blob of ink, or a mess of pixels. Everything is important, I think...

 

[ywenz]

You can get romantic about a body but not about a lens.. however counter-intuitive that may be. The law of diminishing return applies to lenses when you're comparing amongs a set of good lenses. A Leica 50mm probably isn't that much better than a Nokton 50mm..

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

While I like many "modern" lenses, you can definitively get romantic about older lenses. Once you've shot with a Summar, Summarit, Summitar, Noctilux, or Canon's f/1.2 (and I've heard the same thing can happen with the Nikkor 50mm f/1.4), you understand how that can happen.

 

[Pherdinand]

i agree w aizan. what's more important for walking, my feet or my brain?

 

[FrankS]

You could still have an opinion about which combo you would rather have: an M6 with C/V 50mm, or an R2/3a with 50mm Summicron. (I said M6 to try to even things out. It has a built-in meter like the C/V body, it costs a bit more used, but the C/V has auto-exposure.)

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

What is the sound of one hand clapping? If a tree falls in a forest, and nobody hears it, are the trees deaf? Which came first, the chicken or the rooster?

Some of these and other life's mysteries are what keep the world turning... 😉

Did somebody say an M6 and a Summicron? --- the options are so many, it boggles my mind, literally: I carry about three different 50mm lenses in my bag. I never forget the Summicron.

 

[kiev4a]

You can have the best camera body with the most accurate exposure meter ever made and the smoothest film advance, but in the final analysis the photo is only going to be as good as the lens projecting the image onto the film.. A good lens can make up for a great many camera design faults. That's why a lot of lenses cost more than the cameras they fit.

 

[Pherdinand]

indeed, frank, but not based on sbody else's oppinion. i would want to try it out if i have the possibility, and decide based on my own experience. behind the basic features, the different equipment can fit differently into the hands of different photographers.
sorry my shift keys are not working for some weird reason.

 

[ZeissFan]

Ergonomics does play a role in your photography. If you have a RF body that isn't comfortable for you, you'll spend too much time fighting the camera, which becomes a distraction.

One of the reasons I don't like tabbed lenses -- they don't work for me.

Another RF camera that doesn't work for me: the Voigtlander Prominent. I just took it out today for a roll of Agfapan APX 100 to see if I could see myself using this camera a lot. I can't. Great Ultron lens, but I found myself spending too much time fiddling with the controls.

In most cases and speaking strictly of tools, I would say that the lens is most important. However, don't dismiss the body as "any body will do" doesn't always hold true.

 

[Pherdinand]

what's a 'tabbed lens', mike////////////?? [damn shift]

 

[sf]

Hmm...let's see. Could I take a picture with a lens without the camera, or a camera without a lens?

(to me) it looks like both are as important; I think the focus and priorities dictate which of either you'd rather concentrate on. Do you think that a picture is a picture is a picture? Then the lens may not be as important; the camera itself may not be, for that matter.

Do you think that shooting a javelin thrower from 1000+ meters away with the sharpest clarity is very important? Then perhaps a lens with Image Stab./Vibration Reduc/etc. with fine-grain high-speed film and/or high-end digital sensor with super fast FPS shutter rates is important.

What is more important? The paper on which your picture is printed? No matter how good or bad your lens or camera is, it means nothing if your picture is a blob of ink, or a mess of pixels. Everything is important, I think...

I agree with your point about lenses, but only when the resoltution of the lens or characteristics of the lens are paramount. I would not put Leica and Vivitar on equal ground, for instance, ever. But, I would rather spend the money on a good Leica body and a good CV lens than vice versa. Any day of the week, because, most likely, you are not going to have that thing focused well enough for any resolution benefit of the Leica glass to be apparent. With an AF camera, things are different, when the highest capabilities of the lens are being utilized. In manual focus, with viewfinders and hand held, there is no logical difference.

Shooting sports, you want the D2X or the F5 AND the great lens speed of pricey VR lenses. Using a tripod and a cable release or timer, and getting perfect focus with your M6 or R3A is the only way to make the difference between the CV, Nikon, Canon, Leica, etc, glass actually mean something. Bokeh and contrast aside. But those are personal issues.

 

[aizan]

well...i'd rather have the bessa and 50/2.5 color skopar or m6 and tabbed summicron, for the balance and handling. unbalanced and untabbed don't do it for me!

 

[FrankS]

Waffle. Waffle. Waffle. The choice is between a CV body with Summicron lens or a Leica M body with CV lens. The sound of one hand clapping is not relevant to this discussion. You choose. Which one?

 

[kiev4a]

What is the sound of one hand clapping? If a tree falls in a forest, and nobody hears it, are the trees deaf? Which came first, the chicken or the rooster?

Some of these and other life's mysteries are what keep the world turning... 😉

If a man speaks in the forest, and there's no woman around, is the man still wrong?

(Married women usually think this question is funny. Young, single women think it's sexist).