Roger Hicks
Veteran
Weston Master II or III. THE classic, incredibly reliable, and silly cheap. Which side of the pond are you?
Cheers,
R.
Cheers,
R.
BernardL
Well-known
+1
Same for Gossen Pilot and Sixtomat.
(do not try to "place" snow tones using a Selenium meter: they tend to have significant errors for extreme luminosity; but then who needs a meter for that?)
seany65
Well-known
Thanks for all the replies and the info. Plenty of stuff to think about.
Is the Twinmate actually a bad meter, or just not good as it ain't great at low levels of light?
@Chriscrawfordphoto: About the restored weston master V that you don't use 'cos really you don't want it just hanging around the house cluttering the place up. I'm quite prepared to take it off your hands, and I won't charge you...
@Roger Hicks: Are the master II and III better/more likely to still be accurate than the IV or V?
I'm in England, about 10 miles east of Manchester.
Is the Twinmate actually a bad meter, or just not good as it ain't great at low levels of light?
@Chriscrawfordphoto: About the restored weston master V that you don't use 'cos really you don't want it just hanging around the house cluttering the place up. I'm quite prepared to take it off your hands, and I won't charge you...
@Roger Hicks: Are the master II and III better/more likely to still be accurate than the IV or V?
I'm in England, about 10 miles east of Manchester.
Robert Lai
Well-known
Twinmate is not very accurate. Mine reads up to 1 stop off my other meters. Low light sensitivity is not good either.
For the Weston meters, I have the III and the V.
The IV upwards are supposed to have 1 stop extra low light sensitivity, per the advertising of the day. The problem with the III is that there is no needle lock. If you are doing reflected light reading, fine and good.
If you are doing incident light reading from the subject and aiming the invercone towards the camera, it is also fine. However, if you are in a forest or some location where the subect can't physically be reached,, you can't just turn the meter around towards you (if you are in similar light). The problem is that the moment you turn the meter back around to read it, the needle will move to a new setting.
The free needle motion in the III makes this meter more susceptible to jostling, moving the needle off its jewelled pivots.
The III also used ASA film speed settings. The II used Weston speed settings which will require more translation work on your part to determine what the ISO/ASA film speed equivalent is.
For that reason, I prefer the V ( IV is similar also). Take a reading, lock the needle position. Then you can read the settings off the calculator dial.
Finally, from your perspective - the II and III was made by Yankees in the USA. The IV and V was made by your countrymen in England.
For the Weston meters, I have the III and the V.
The IV upwards are supposed to have 1 stop extra low light sensitivity, per the advertising of the day. The problem with the III is that there is no needle lock. If you are doing reflected light reading, fine and good.
If you are doing incident light reading from the subject and aiming the invercone towards the camera, it is also fine. However, if you are in a forest or some location where the subect can't physically be reached,, you can't just turn the meter around towards you (if you are in similar light). The problem is that the moment you turn the meter back around to read it, the needle will move to a new setting.
The free needle motion in the III makes this meter more susceptible to jostling, moving the needle off its jewelled pivots.
The III also used ASA film speed settings. The II used Weston speed settings which will require more translation work on your part to determine what the ISO/ASA film speed equivalent is.
For that reason, I prefer the V ( IV is similar also). Take a reading, lock the needle position. Then you can read the settings off the calculator dial.
Finally, from your perspective - the II and III was made by Yankees in the USA. The IV and V was made by your countrymen in England.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Surprisingly, yes. You need to adjust for Weston/ASA speeds, but that's easy (1/3 stop adjustment). If you don't get a PM tomorrow or the next day, PM me. Sorry but it's well gone midnight where I am (rural France).
Cheers,
R.
seany65
Well-known
@BernardL: Thanks for the info. I didn't know that.
@Robert Lai: "Twinmate isn't very accurate." Do I take it that this is either most of them or a large proportion of them? I wonder how many buyers have told the makers, and if quite a few have, why are they still making them?
Thanks for the info about tweston master 3. An unlockebale needle is something to think about.
@Roger Hicks: Really? I suppose there was a change in method of manufacture or something which hasn't stood the test of time.
There has been a bit of talk about getting meters that had been powered by mercury batteries 'converted'. I presume this means conversion to be able to use silver-oxide batteries.
There is an alternative to this which seems like it would help with the Gossen Super Pilot (which needed a Mercury PX13 battery), as well as other meters and cameras, and that is the 'adaptor' sold by 'the small battery company' who's website I've just been back to after several months, and it seems they've got various adaptors in stock at the minute. Herre's a link to their 'Mercury replacement catalogue':
http://www.smallbattery.company.org.uk/sbc_mercury_catalogue.htm
@Robert Lai: "Twinmate isn't very accurate." Do I take it that this is either most of them or a large proportion of them? I wonder how many buyers have told the makers, and if quite a few have, why are they still making them?
Thanks for the info about tweston master 3. An unlockebale needle is something to think about.
@Roger Hicks: Really? I suppose there was a change in method of manufacture or something which hasn't stood the test of time.
There has been a bit of talk about getting meters that had been powered by mercury batteries 'converted'. I presume this means conversion to be able to use silver-oxide batteries.
There is an alternative to this which seems like it would help with the Gossen Super Pilot (which needed a Mercury PX13 battery), as well as other meters and cameras, and that is the 'adaptor' sold by 'the small battery company' who's website I've just been back to after several months, and it seems they've got various adaptors in stock at the minute. Herre's a link to their 'Mercury replacement catalogue':
http://www.smallbattery.company.org.uk/sbc_mercury_catalogue.htm
x-ray
Veteran
George at Quality Light Metric converts meters that used PX13 and 625 Mercury cells to use alkaline 625 cells. I understand he inserts a diode in the circuit to regulate the voltage. I've had him convert several and they are very accurate and stable. He says the battery will last a couple of years.
George does virtually all of Hollywoods meter calibrations and repairs as well as calibrations of instruments for NASA. George immigrated from Poland years ago where he taught physics. He knows his stuff!
If you want a Weston V I'd suggest the Euro Master. They're later production and I e found more of them working vs Weston V meters. They're the same meter just different names. There are a couple on eBay at the moment that the seller claims are working and accurate. Also the dial / scale is much easier to read. I bought a junker just to get the dial off of and put it on my V.
My favorite of the Weston's is the Ranger 9. It has an optical viewer with bright lines that accurately shows the 18 degrees it reads. They're a bit larger than the V but much more sensitive and the 18 degree acceptance angle is great for general use. It originally used PX13 Mercury cells but I had QLM convert one to alkaline 625 cells and calibrate. I have another that was accurate without calibration and I use silver oxide cells in MR9 adapters. These work great too.
George does virtually all of Hollywoods meter calibrations and repairs as well as calibrations of instruments for NASA. George immigrated from Poland years ago where he taught physics. He knows his stuff!
If you want a Weston V I'd suggest the Euro Master. They're later production and I e found more of them working vs Weston V meters. They're the same meter just different names. There are a couple on eBay at the moment that the seller claims are working and accurate. Also the dial / scale is much easier to read. I bought a junker just to get the dial off of and put it on my V.
My favorite of the Weston's is the Ranger 9. It has an optical viewer with bright lines that accurately shows the 18 degrees it reads. They're a bit larger than the V but much more sensitive and the 18 degree acceptance angle is great for general use. It originally used PX13 Mercury cells but I had QLM convert one to alkaline 625 cells and calibrate. I have another that was accurate without calibration and I use silver oxide cells in MR9 adapters. These work great too.
Robert Lai
Well-known
From my statistically invalid sample of n=1, the Twinmate gets me in the right range, but it's not the one I would use as a reference. For that role, I use my Weston V, or Gossen Lunapro F, which agree with each other exactly.
The main reason for getting it is that it's small, and it comes with a removable foot that allows you to put the meter in the accessory shoe of your camera. Similar in style to the Leica MR meters, but without the shutter coupling.
If you want such a small meter, the Leica MR-4 is a reasonable alternative. It has a 90 mm lens' (35mm film format) angle of view, so it is a semi-spot meter. You aim the MR-4 by using the viewfinder frameline shift lever on your M Leica to get the 90mm frameline, then meter your selected area. I like the MR-4 because it gives a decent size shutter speed dial that overhangs the front of the camera (similar to how the M5's shutter speed dial is). Otherwise, the M1-M4P, M6, M-A and MP have tiny, atrophic little shutter speed dials that are a major pain to use.
There is nothing to prevent you from slipping an MR-4 meter into the accessory shoe of your camera, and shooting away. The only issue is that the shutter release location of your Ambi-Silette is way in the back. A meter in the accessory shoe may block access to this release.
For the battery adapter, the best one that I've found (actually recommended to me by Gus Lazzari, a camera repairman here in the USA) is that sold by pratedthai: http://www.ebay.com/itm/MR-9-Batter...083632?hash=item1e6b1d0830:g:hkIAAOxykMpTHFbQ
It has actual gold plating for the best electrical contact that will never corrode or oxidize.
The main reason for getting it is that it's small, and it comes with a removable foot that allows you to put the meter in the accessory shoe of your camera. Similar in style to the Leica MR meters, but without the shutter coupling.
If you want such a small meter, the Leica MR-4 is a reasonable alternative. It has a 90 mm lens' (35mm film format) angle of view, so it is a semi-spot meter. You aim the MR-4 by using the viewfinder frameline shift lever on your M Leica to get the 90mm frameline, then meter your selected area. I like the MR-4 because it gives a decent size shutter speed dial that overhangs the front of the camera (similar to how the M5's shutter speed dial is). Otherwise, the M1-M4P, M6, M-A and MP have tiny, atrophic little shutter speed dials that are a major pain to use.
There is nothing to prevent you from slipping an MR-4 meter into the accessory shoe of your camera, and shooting away. The only issue is that the shutter release location of your Ambi-Silette is way in the back. A meter in the accessory shoe may block access to this release.
For the battery adapter, the best one that I've found (actually recommended to me by Gus Lazzari, a camera repairman here in the USA) is that sold by pratedthai: http://www.ebay.com/itm/MR-9-Batter...083632?hash=item1e6b1d0830:g:hkIAAOxykMpTHFbQ
It has actual gold plating for the best electrical contact that will never corrode or oxidize.
Tim Murphy
Well-known
Weston II
Weston II
Dear Seany65,
I've bought 2 of these from ebay and spent about $ 20.00 for the pair.
Once I understood the Weston film speeds I've found that both meters reliably match every other handheld meter and every metered camera that I own. Yes, the meters have archaic shutter speeds and f-stops on them, but honestly just how anal do you need to be to not accept 1/200 @ f1.5 as being the same as 1/250 @ f1.4?
For example, ISO 400 film = 320 on a Weston II. You can figure out the rest of the film speeds from there or you can Google the instruction manual and get the conversion numbers direct.
When it stops deflecting when pointed at a light source the meter is likely dead. Just buy another for a couple of dollars and continue on your merry way.
Regards,
Tim Murphy
Harrisburg, PA
Weston II
Dear Seany65,
I've bought 2 of these from ebay and spent about $ 20.00 for the pair.
Once I understood the Weston film speeds I've found that both meters reliably match every other handheld meter and every metered camera that I own. Yes, the meters have archaic shutter speeds and f-stops on them, but honestly just how anal do you need to be to not accept 1/200 @ f1.5 as being the same as 1/250 @ f1.4?
For example, ISO 400 film = 320 on a Weston II. You can figure out the rest of the film speeds from there or you can Google the instruction manual and get the conversion numbers direct.
When it stops deflecting when pointed at a light source the meter is likely dead. Just buy another for a couple of dollars and continue on your merry way.
Regards,
Tim Murphy
Harrisburg, PA
ornate_wrasse
Moderator
Another vote for the Sekonic L-308. I usually wear mine around my neck as it's very light and it's very convenient to just grab it and take a reading. I bought mine used from an ad on Craigslist for $100. It's been working great for me for a number of years.
CMur12
Veteran
Looking at the two meters Chris recommended (Sekonic L-308 and Gossen Sixtomat F2), I like that the Gossen has a 25-degree angle of acceptance over the Sekonic's 40 degrees.
- Murray
- Murray
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
I didn't notice that, but its another good point for the Gossen. I also like that it has better low-light sensitivity than the Sekonic.
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi,
I have and use several old meters. Only the 1930's Leicameter needed a new cell and a sticker to remind me how to correct the reading (only important if you like old period pieces as part of the outfit).
I've also had Westons from the 1940's up to the UK (only) made Euro-Master. Not one of them needed more than rebalancing or recalibration and some worked as bought. The cells were OK probably because the leather case keeps the cells from normal deterioration by light.
The Weston Master V uses ASA and DIN for the film speed and shows all the odd speeds and apertures needed for old Leicas, Contaxes, FEDs and Zorkis etc. The Weston Euro Master shows the international speeds and apertures and half stops only, plus it uses ASA & DIN. So for me the Master V is most useful and they can be picked up for next to nothing boxed with Invercones and manuals.
My super modern foreign digital one worked OK but the battery terminal fell off for good one day...
Regards, David
I have and use several old meters. Only the 1930's Leicameter needed a new cell and a sticker to remind me how to correct the reading (only important if you like old period pieces as part of the outfit).
I've also had Westons from the 1940's up to the UK (only) made Euro-Master. Not one of them needed more than rebalancing or recalibration and some worked as bought. The cells were OK probably because the leather case keeps the cells from normal deterioration by light.
The Weston Master V uses ASA and DIN for the film speed and shows all the odd speeds and apertures needed for old Leicas, Contaxes, FEDs and Zorkis etc. The Weston Euro Master shows the international speeds and apertures and half stops only, plus it uses ASA & DIN. So for me the Master V is most useful and they can be picked up for next to nothing boxed with Invercones and manuals.
My super modern foreign digital one worked OK but the battery terminal fell off for good one day...
Regards, David
Paul T.
Veteran
I've owned many Westons and vintage meters, plus the VC shoe-meter. I love the Sekonic Twin-mate. I think portability is a virtue.
It's very very quick and intuitive in use, too, more so than the Westons. I don't recall it's any worse in low light than the Westons, it certainly goes down to about the lowest speed I can hand-hold, around 1/10 of a second as f/2 or so.
It's very very quick and intuitive in use, too, more so than the Westons. I don't recall it's any worse in low light than the Westons, it certainly goes down to about the lowest speed I can hand-hold, around 1/10 of a second as f/2 or so.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
The Twinmate's low light sensitivity is EV 3 at ISO-100, about the same as a Weston Master V. To me, that's unacceptable. The Twinmate uses a modern Silicon Photo Diode metering cell, and most SPD based meters can meter down to EV -2. If one is going to buy a modern battery powered meter, I would not choose one that is hobbled with such poor low-light sensitivity.
Paul T.
Veteran
Absolutely take that point, and if you're shooting slide film, perhaps the Twin-mate is not sufficiently accurate. I'm sure you're right also that they should have built in better low light capability.
But if you're shooting hand-held, it will take you to pretty low shutter speeds. I happen to like the needle display, which also allows you to guess even lower light levels pretty accurately. While I absolutely take Chris's point re bigger meters being better, the 208's handiness is unique. (The Gossen Digisix, which I've borrowed, is similarly small, two or three stops better in low light, but not quite as intuitive in use).
But if you're shooting hand-held, it will take you to pretty low shutter speeds. I happen to like the needle display, which also allows you to guess even lower light levels pretty accurately. While I absolutely take Chris's point re bigger meters being better, the 208's handiness is unique. (The Gossen Digisix, which I've borrowed, is similarly small, two or three stops better in low light, but not quite as intuitive in use).
seany65
Well-known
Thanks to everyone for all the new info.
@Robert Lai: Thanks for the link. Looks like a good option. Although with the possibility of having to pay import tax etc. the cost could go a bit higher. I was wondering if the adaptors are a little bit bigger than the oriignal mercury battery? If not, then they could be used in those meters and cameras that used two mercury batteries.
I don't really think I'd be too interested in a Leica MR4. If I were to buy a shoe mount one, I think I'd try and find a working Metraphot 3 as I already have one (which came with the ambi silette) but it decides when and if it's going to be accurate so it's not really useable but I sort of quite like it.
Dear Tim Murphy,
Of the master 2 and 3, I'm more inclined to the 3. I was wondering if there were different versions of the invercone, which can only be used on particluar models?
Regards,
seany65.
@ David Hughes:
I am looking for 'period pieces' for my ambi silette and super solinette, which is why I have been looking at the gossen sixtry and am now looking at the master 3, to go with the period lens hoods and filters which I have.
Regards,
seany65.
Hmmm, Has anyone got any idea why Gossen are/were so stuck on using "-six" in the names of their meters?
@Robert Lai: Thanks for the link. Looks like a good option. Although with the possibility of having to pay import tax etc. the cost could go a bit higher. I was wondering if the adaptors are a little bit bigger than the oriignal mercury battery? If not, then they could be used in those meters and cameras that used two mercury batteries.
I don't really think I'd be too interested in a Leica MR4. If I were to buy a shoe mount one, I think I'd try and find a working Metraphot 3 as I already have one (which came with the ambi silette) but it decides when and if it's going to be accurate so it's not really useable but I sort of quite like it.
Dear Tim Murphy,
Of the master 2 and 3, I'm more inclined to the 3. I was wondering if there were different versions of the invercone, which can only be used on particluar models?
Regards,
seany65.
@ David Hughes:
I am looking for 'period pieces' for my ambi silette and super solinette, which is why I have been looking at the gossen sixtry and am now looking at the master 3, to go with the period lens hoods and filters which I have.
Regards,
seany65.
Hmmm, Has anyone got any idea why Gossen are/were so stuck on using "-six" in the names of their meters?
Robert Lai
Well-known
All the invercones are usable on almost all of the Weston models. I think the first model used a different design of invercone. The invercones interchange between my III and V without issues.
seany65
Well-known
Thanks for the info about invercones, Robert.
.
.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
The Invercone was changed for the Master IV. That design, which is much larger than the earlier design, fits the Master IV, V, Euro-Master and Euro-Master II. It definitely will not fit the original Weston Master or the Master II. I know that because I have both of those meters and the Master IV Invercone will NOT fit them. I do not think it will fit the Master III either, as that meter is basically the same as the master II, except the calculator dial was changed to use ASA film speeds (The original and the Master II used Weston Film Speeds. The Master III and later used ASA speeds).