europanorama
Well-known
Have a Bessa I with Vaskar 4.5/105mm. takes 120 and has no built-in rangefinder. But i have the original external rangefinder. Not yet used. Next one i will get soon will have no blind viewfinder....
For panoramic shooting and special tripod-adapter and more stability i would prefer a version with second tripod-mount on the front-cover.
Would prefer a version with built-in rangefinder, but:
Most important is lens and filmflatness. I dont trust the donor chamber at right side-only hope its holding film tight.
If bokeh is special i would prefer such a cam or maybe model with sharpest lens.
Where is an overview of all cams maybe with reviews?
For panoramic shooting and special tripod-adapter and more stability i would prefer a version with second tripod-mount on the front-cover.
Would prefer a version with built-in rangefinder, but:
Most important is lens and filmflatness. I dont trust the donor chamber at right side-only hope its holding film tight.
If bokeh is special i would prefer such a cam or maybe model with sharpest lens.
Where is an overview of all cams maybe with reviews?
Corran
Well-known
Bessa II with APO Lanthar if you are rich, Color Heliar if you are not. But really, the RF is pretty poor on these and so I hardly ever get really sharp shots at wider f/stops due to focus issues. For landscape the 6x9 format is starting to get large enough where DOF concerns are significant even at f/22 with near-far relationships without movements.
I have a Bessa II w/ Color Heliar and I don't use it all that much really, though I should probably give it another go. Or sell it.
I have a Bessa II w/ Color Heliar and I don't use it all that much really, though I should probably give it another go. Or sell it.
Robert Lai
Well-known
Color Heliar is what I have on a post-war Bessa RF.
Mine has been overhauled, the rangefinder is accurate.
Lens is very good. Rendering is old school: moderate contrast, high resolution. It does render better wide open compared to the front focusing Zeiss Tessar on the Super Ikontas.
Here's a Color Heliar shot. Notice the flare on the lower right corner, from the bright sunlit areas in the left upper corner. I did use a lens hood, but this is single coated lens technology.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/66057022@N04/35945868032/in/dateposted-public/
Mine has been overhauled, the rangefinder is accurate.
Lens is very good. Rendering is old school: moderate contrast, high resolution. It does render better wide open compared to the front focusing Zeiss Tessar on the Super Ikontas.
Here's a Color Heliar shot. Notice the flare on the lower right corner, from the bright sunlit areas in the left upper corner. I did use a lens hood, but this is single coated lens technology.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/66057022@N04/35945868032/in/dateposted-public/
f16sunshine
Moderator
I've tried several of the Bessa RF models both coated and uncoated lens versions.
The Bessa ii with Color Heliar is really a great camera and top choice imo
The copy I have now seems almost Modern in sharpness and has great out of focus character.
The RF in mine is spot on... Wide open looks great and I can hit focus with patience.
The tiny "peep hole" style VF is a bit of a drag but once you get used to it....
I also have the uncoated Bessa Rf Heliar. It's also very sharp but is a flare magnet!
The appearance of sharpness is definetly lessoned by the lower contrast of this lens.
It has a nice personality though. I keep it for some occasions.
The Bessa ii with Color Skopar is also plenty sharp but it's bokeh personality is a bit feral wide open.
Also, the Color Heliar does seem to render finer detail better than the Color Skopar although this could have just been copy variation especially after all these years.
I don't have very many scans online. The few below I have posted before in other threads.
All of these scans are with epson V700 so you can assume they have room to improve.
I gave a wet print of the first one to the my friend who is in it... it's stunning.
Color Heliar f3.5/105mm
When it really is love. by Adnan, on Flickr
Color Heliar again.
I believe this is W/O a 6x6 crop
Tina by Adnan, on Flickr
Uncoated Heliar f3.5/105mm
Found... Camera geeks 
by Adnan, on Flickr
Color Skopar f3.5/105mm
Mom and Hugo by Adnan, on Flickr
Color Skopar test shot to stress the bokeh... squirrelly.
Tmax 400@400 Tmax dev001 by Adnan, on Flickr
The Bessa ii with Color Heliar is really a great camera and top choice imo
The copy I have now seems almost Modern in sharpness and has great out of focus character.
The RF in mine is spot on... Wide open looks great and I can hit focus with patience.
The tiny "peep hole" style VF is a bit of a drag but once you get used to it....
I also have the uncoated Bessa Rf Heliar. It's also very sharp but is a flare magnet!
The appearance of sharpness is definetly lessoned by the lower contrast of this lens.
It has a nice personality though. I keep it for some occasions.
The Bessa ii with Color Skopar is also plenty sharp but it's bokeh personality is a bit feral wide open.
Also, the Color Heliar does seem to render finer detail better than the Color Skopar although this could have just been copy variation especially after all these years.
I don't have very many scans online. The few below I have posted before in other threads.
All of these scans are with epson V700 so you can assume they have room to improve.
I gave a wet print of the first one to the my friend who is in it... it's stunning.
Color Heliar f3.5/105mm
When it really is love. by Adnan, on FlickrColor Heliar again.
I believe this is W/O a 6x6 crop
Tina by Adnan, on FlickrUncoated Heliar f3.5/105mm
Found... Camera geeks by Adnan, on FlickrColor Skopar f3.5/105mm
Mom and Hugo by Adnan, on FlickrColor Skopar test shot to stress the bokeh... squirrelly.
Tmax 400@400 Tmax dev001 by Adnan, on FlickrCMur12
Veteran
In case it isn't already clear from the posts above, the hierarchy is the following, from best to very good:
1. Apo-Lanthar
2. Heliar (Color Heliar is coated)
3. Skopar (Color Skopar is coated).
The Apo-Lanthar is pretty exotic. It is harder to find and the price is very high.
The Heliar has 5 elements in 3 groups. My understanding is that it was Voigtlander's competitor to the Zeiss Planar and the Schneider Xenotor. This one would cost quite a bit more than the Skopar.
The Skopar is a Tessar-type lens (4 elements in 3 groups).
- Murray
1. Apo-Lanthar
2. Heliar (Color Heliar is coated)
3. Skopar (Color Skopar is coated).
The Apo-Lanthar is pretty exotic. It is harder to find and the price is very high.
The Heliar has 5 elements in 3 groups. My understanding is that it was Voigtlander's competitor to the Zeiss Planar and the Schneider Xenotor. This one would cost quite a bit more than the Skopar.
The Skopar is a Tessar-type lens (4 elements in 3 groups).
- Murray
Corran
Well-known
Zeiss Planar and Schneider Xenotar are Double-Gauss type lenses, while the Heliar is, well, a Heliar. I think the Planar lenses are 6-element IIRC, with the Heliar as you mentioned being 5-element.
Looking back I don't really have many good photos from my Bessa II. The RF might be accurate but it is so dim and hard to focus, trying to shoot anything with short DOF has not worked for me. Landscapes are fine.
Looking back I don't really have many good photos from my Bessa II. The RF might be accurate but it is so dim and hard to focus, trying to shoot anything with short DOF has not worked for me. Landscapes are fine.
CMur12
Veteran
Corran, early Planars in Rolleiflex TLRs were a 5-element design (perhaps only the f3.5 version).
The Heliar was a decidedly different design from the Planar, and I would expect its rendering to be somewhat different, as well. I meant that it was intended to be a competitor of the Planar, not a direct equivalent.
- Murray
The Heliar was a decidedly different design from the Planar, and I would expect its rendering to be somewhat different, as well. I meant that it was intended to be a competitor of the Planar, not a direct equivalent.
- Murray
citizen99
Well-known
I had a late '30s Bessa Rangefinder with the Heliar. I was advised by a specialist that this had coating; if so it wasn't evidently blue as in more modern coatings, but it's possible that it had one of the early single coatings, if it wasn't age-bloom. Anyway, the results were fine for me in daylight colour photography. 'Portfolio' for that lens here:-
https://www.flickr.com/photos/43334883@N03/albums/72157629691099238
https://www.flickr.com/photos/43334883@N03/albums/72157629691099238
f16sunshine
Moderator
Citizen99
That's a pretty trick copy of the bessa you have there.
I seem to remember a discussion about silver trim Bessa RF's but have not seen one.
Yours looks pretty nice!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/43334883@N03/7181372058/in/album-72157629691099238/
Of all the many classic folds I've tried the Bessas are my favorite.
I feel very fortunate to have both the uncoated Heliar and the Bessa ii with Color Heliar.... these cameras are gold!
That's a pretty trick copy of the bessa you have there.
I seem to remember a discussion about silver trim Bessa RF's but have not seen one.
Yours looks pretty nice!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/43334883@N03/7181372058/in/album-72157629691099238/
Of all the many classic folds I've tried the Bessas are my favorite.
I feel very fortunate to have both the uncoated Heliar and the Bessa ii with Color Heliar.... these cameras are gold!
Corran
Well-known
Yeah that chromed Bessa RF looks awesome! I had an older RF with a Skopar. I seemed to have better luck with it for focus with the magnified RF. I thought I would like the Bessa II better with the combined VF/RF but so far not so much.
The Bessa RF was also a bit smaller and lighter than the II.
If I could swap mine for an RF with the same Color Heliar I would I think.
Also, My II was CLA'd after I received it so it is in good condition, so my personal opinions on the rangefinder are not from a poor-condition camera.
The Bessa RF was also a bit smaller and lighter than the II.
If I could swap mine for an RF with the same Color Heliar I would I think.
Also, My II was CLA'd after I received it so it is in good condition, so my personal opinions on the rangefinder are not from a poor-condition camera.
europanorama
Well-known
RF means built-in viewfinder? or is there a version with RF inside VF?
I actually have two Bessa I-Vaskar. Have a vertical 3DStereo-setup 3M-Duallock velcro used. no images yet. everything calibrated and shutter tested with photoplug which i would advice to everyone who cannot afford phochrom XA.
That means the Vaskar is at end of list?
could get Bessa I with Color Skopar. hesistating since want to get Bessa II equiv. triple priced. but has built-in RF. RV/VF combo? or seperated?
I actually have two Bessa I-Vaskar. Have a vertical 3DStereo-setup 3M-Duallock velcro used. no images yet. everything calibrated and shutter tested with photoplug which i would advice to everyone who cannot afford phochrom XA.
That means the Vaskar is at end of list?
could get Bessa I with Color Skopar. hesistating since want to get Bessa II equiv. triple priced. but has built-in RF. RV/VF combo? or seperated?
CMur12
Veteran
Michael, the Bessa II integrated the rangefinder into the viewfinder, so one window did both, as with most modern RF cameras.
I had a Bessa II with the Color-Skopar, which produced stunning slides. I sold it, which I now regret, because I wear glasses and the viewfinder was so tiny. (I could only use it without glasses, and, as my eyes got worse, I could no longer focus it.)
As stated above, the Skopar is a Tessar-type lens (4 elements in 3 groups). The Vaskar lens, as far as I know, was a 3-element lens.
- Murray
I had a Bessa II with the Color-Skopar, which produced stunning slides. I sold it, which I now regret, because I wear glasses and the viewfinder was so tiny. (I could only use it without glasses, and, as my eyes got worse, I could no longer focus it.)
As stated above, the Skopar is a Tessar-type lens (4 elements in 3 groups). The Vaskar lens, as far as I know, was a 3-element lens.
- Murray
Robert.M
Well-known
Here's a shot with a Bessa 66 and a Heliar 3.5/75 (pre war uncoated lens)
lynnb
Veteran
I have the Bessa II Color-Skopar. The Heliar and APO-Lanthar are more highly regarded. Attached a few pictures from my camera:
Voigtlander Bessa II #P1090088 by lynnb’s snaps, on Flickr
Manly Ferry #117 by lynnb’s snaps, on Flickr
Birds nests in coastal wetlands, Sydney 2019 #904 by lynnb’s snaps, on Flickr
You can view more (and larger) pictures taken with the Color-Skopar in my Flickr gallery here.
The VF is squinty but the RF patch is clear and contrasty on mine.
Voigtlander Bessa II #P1090088 by lynnb’s snaps, on Flickr
Manly Ferry #117 by lynnb’s snaps, on Flickr
Birds nests in coastal wetlands, Sydney 2019 #904 by lynnb’s snaps, on Flickr
You can view more (and larger) pictures taken with the Color-Skopar in my Flickr gallery here.
The VF is squinty but the RF patch is clear and contrasty on mine.
jgrainger
Established
I used to have the post-war Bessa II with Color Skopar around 10 years ago, it was sufficiently sharp, and as a reasonably young person the viewfinder was acceptable.
I finished up selling it because I didn't feel the rest of the camera was good enough (not particularly sturdy), and because my example had some play in the ways of the lens standard.. that is to say the rest of the camera isn't on par with the lenses.
I like folding cameras but feel the requirements for the "ultimate" folding rangefinder camera go against each other.. One day I wouldn't mind trying a Kodak 620 Duo (only 645 format sadly) with the coupled rangefinder.
I finished up selling it because I didn't feel the rest of the camera was good enough (not particularly sturdy), and because my example had some play in the ways of the lens standard.. that is to say the rest of the camera isn't on par with the lenses.
I like folding cameras but feel the requirements for the "ultimate" folding rangefinder camera go against each other.. One day I wouldn't mind trying a Kodak 620 Duo (only 645 format sadly) with the coupled rangefinder.