Which Ones?

[benlees]

Well, I was doing a little Xmas shopping today and went into the local Urban Outfitters where I saw a mountain of Holgas, Dianas, Lomos, and Fujifilm Instaxs ($145 for the camera, $38 for 10 bits of small instant film. 😱) In fact, I bought my first, and most likely my last, Rollei there!

Of course this trend with urban hipsters won't last. But the local camera shops will be selling more 120 this season than they have in ages.

 

[Harry Lime]

That kind of research and development investment by major corporations shows me an adaptation to changing markets, not a headlong rush into bankruptcy. Film is still viable.

Hey Al -

To clarify my position.

In my opinion for film to survive the public needs two things:

A) Access to reasonably priced, reliable and well designed analog cameras, be these new or used. These can't merely be large format or bellows cameras, but need to be more mainstream types (SLR, RF). In particular I am talking about 135 format cameras and to some extend 120. I don't believe that the large format market alone is large enough to sustain Kodak etc.

B) The continued ability to get existing cameras properly serviced. And by properly I mean to factory spec, not the hack jobs a lot of shops produce. Home service is not really an option, because the vast majority of people lack the skills, training and proper tools to perform this work. Once the current generation of people like Sherry Krauter, Don Goldberg, Harry Fleenor etc retire, who will replace them? Leica, Linhof and Hasselblad are pretty much the last companies around that will still service their analog cameras.

The continued availablity and production of film depends on sales volume.
Sales are driven by consumption. Consumption equals people taking pictures. If there is no easy access to good quality and reliable cameras, people will stop shooting film, which means no sales of film. A roll of film without a camera is as useless as a functional cameras without film. Once the number of functional analog cameras drops below a certain point we will face an economic situation where film will be priced too high for general consumption or will not be viable to the bean counters.

What made me realize this was that I am finding it very difficult to get my Nikon F and F3P bodies properly serviced. These are mainstream cameras that have been produced in the hundreds of thousands or millions, not obscure and ancient bodies. Even the biggest independent Nikon/Canon repair shop in the UK turned out to be unwilling and unable to service these bodies. I can still get my Leicas and Hasselblad serviced, but sooner or later that will also become a problem, unless people step in to service the market. Personally I think the film manufacturers should be aware of this and perhaps become involved some how. Fuji may have the right idea, they are about to ship a new 120 format folder.

 

[Debusti Paolo]

I'll miss my contax g2 kit with modified 15mm heliar lens,my rollei 2,8f,,my bronica rf645,my hassie 903 swc .....oh my God!!!

 

[John Lawrence]

What made me realize this was that I am finding it very difficult to get my Nikon F and F3P bodies properly serviced. These are mainstream cameras that have been produced in the hundreds of thousands or millions, not obscure and ancient bodies. Even the biggest independent Nikon/Canon repair shop in the UK turned out to be unwilling and unable to service these bodies.

I haven't had a Nikon for a few years now, but I'm surprised to hear this. Have you tried:

www.nikon-camerarepairs.co.uk (Newton Ellis)

www.sendeancameras.co.uk

www.ajjohnstone.co.uk

www.graysofwestminster.co.uk

www.protechrepairs.co.uk

 

[Al Kaplan]

Harry, where there's a market there wil be suppliers. Yes, it is true that there are fewer or no skilled repair people anymore in every city and town. On the other hand, more than thirty years after Canon, Nikon, and Zeiss pulled out of the interchangeable lens rangefinder market, a time when the U.S. and the Soviet Union were aiming missles at one another, who would have predicted that Feds and Zorkies would be being used in the U.S.? As the saying goes, nature abhors a vacum. Who would have predicted that Bessas would be put on the market along with a line of inexpensive but excellent lenses? Or use the same lensmount as Leicas? Or that an upgraded version of the Bessa would be carrying the Zeiss logo?

With a Bessa availability of repair isn't a concern. You can buy another body for the cost of a full CLA on a Leica M. They're cheaply made and noisy compared to a Leica but they work and people can afford them. Students can afford them.

I run into old coots like myself who recognize the Leica I'm carrying and ask me why I haven't "gone digital", but I run into a larger number of college kids who recognize a Leica, want to hold it, even shoot a frame, enjoy the feel of the release, the near silence of the shutter, the buttery smoothnes of winding on to the next frame, things that they've only read about. They complain about the difficulty of scheduling darkroom time at their school darkrooms. Too many students for the limited facilities. On occasion I let one of them come over and use mine.

 

[shadowfox]

Hey Al -

In my opinion for film to survive the public needs two things:

I think here is where we don't see eye-to-eye, to me, film at this point, does not need to "survive public". It just need to "survive" a niche built upon appreciation.

This niche would have to support the infrastructure that will in turn support the niche itself.

No different than paintings, really.

 

[splitimageview]

Like oil, we'll never run out. It will just get more expensive. 🙂

 

[newsgrunt]

I'll miss the Nikon F2a, M6 and Hasselblad 500cm. Something about well built mechanical tools I guess. Each shutter has a unique sound that is easily recognized as a familiar friend.

 

[Bill Pierce]

Has anybody tried to buy a top of the line, conventional enlarger lately? DeVere and Durst are making digital enlargers. One firm in America is buying up old Dursts and reconditioning them. The prices are very high. And if you are fortunate to have a top level enlarger to preserve the quality of your negs, you will find it impossible to get some of those wonderful, high quality, graded fibre enlarging papers like Ilford Galerie and Afga Portriga. This may parallel "which disappeared first, the camera or the film."

 

[maddoc]

The last enlarger kept in stock at Yodobashi Camera (Sapporo) disappeared 4 weeks ago ... they now use the space to to stock up photo paper for enlarging, various kind of chemicals and darkroom equipment.

I think the situation with film depends a lot on the geographical area (or country). For example in Japan (where I live) there is still a large amount of photographer, who use film, buy film and self-develop. On the other hand, seeing to which extend the showcases for DSLR and digital P&S vanished, my question would be: How long will we be able to buy a digital camera ?

 

[charjohncarter]

Is it going to come to pass? I'm not so sure, one with my digital, and one with my who knows how old but over 40 year old cameras:

I took one of my best digital, and one of my most soppy film shots. I still like the film better, and this is Polaroid.

 

[35mmdelux]

it would be a sad day but i suspect Id get over it.....having said this, today and now Id probably miss my F6 auto everything camera.

 

[Al Kaplan]

Bill, it's becoming a problem to find any selection at all. The one place with a decent selection of commonly used paper is five miles down U.S. 1 from me. Ten years ago there were two places within mile. The more exotic stuff? Forget it. Fortunately I mostly use Multigrade, both RC and double weight fiber.

I'm still using the same Omega B-22XL I bought new about 1965 and the ancient Kodak Precision enlarger I picked up used a few years later. They've long ago paid for themselves a thousand times over and then some, no upgrades needed. The one time old fashioned look of the single coated Componons and El Nikkors now produce prints with that much covetted classic look.

I think that we've reached the point where a few big dealers with websites and 800 numbers, with some help from UPS and Fedex, ARE the market supply. Now if DuPont would just just re-enter the sensitized products market again and bring back Varilour BTW (double weight semi-gloss with optical brighteners) for a few years of final hurrah I'd be one happy feller!

 

[Dogman]

I have three decent enlargers in my attic and one really nice one in my darkroom. The enlarger and darkroom aren't getting much use lately, I admit.

I have really mixed feelings about this. I was a very vocal critic of digital for several years. I realize now that I should have been a critic of the flood of crappy digital pictures people inflicted on the world as opposed to the medium itself. I still have trouble with the arrogance and ignorance of many newcomer photographers. There are too many newbies who have no understanding of the basics of photography but are highly learned in Computeranity (a branch of the new religion of Technosciencism).

I've come to terms with digital as a reasonable alternative to silver-based photography. If I do have to give up my Leicas, it won't be the end of the world as we know it.

 

[Livesteamer]

The reports of films death are greatly exagerated. A while back I was driving down the interstate and passed a car towing a trailer. The trailer gave a name and "Wet Collodion Artist". I had to think about that for a minute. There will always be those who want to dabble in film. Remember also that manufacturing is getting better/cheaper/faster with every year so while film will become a niche market, it will be there. I have much better cameras available now but I would miss my first good rangefinder, a Nikon S. Joe

 

[Tom A]

I doubt that film will vanish! There is still a healthy demand for it. Look at LOMOgraphy - 1 million adherents, all using film. If they just use 2-3 rools a year - thats 3 million rolls! Enough for a "niche" manufacturer to exist.
Kodak just opened up a new coating plant in Rochester and introduced the Tmax2 and the Ektar 100 - and they are still making XX and XXX!
We might not have the choices that we used to have in speeds, color emulsions etc (and sizes like 220), but it will be around.
OK, so I tend to stock up on it - just in case. About 5000 ft in the freezer currently and I am planning to add another 5-6000 ft in the new year. Hate running out of favorite stocks (Double X and TriX primarily). Fuji in Japan has also stated that they will support film as long as there are cameras using it around. The introduction of the Fuji 667/Bessa III "folder" at Photokina supports this statement too.

 

[Bill Pierce]

Tom -

I don't think film is going to disappear in the near future, either. The starter question on the thread was a purely hypothetical "what would you miss if" question.

I think what annoys me the most is the effect the move to digital has had on camera manufacturers. Some of the cameras I love are disappearing rather than becoming digital. First among them would be the Leica M. The M8 is not a replacement for the smaller, quieter M6 and its earlier brothers and sisters. It can't even take on low light as well as an M2 loaded with P3200.

I like digital a lot even though it has yet to get to the point where sensors can capture the brightness range that Tri-X can, but I don't like the fact that there is no digital full frame Contax T3, Leitz Minilux or digital M6. All the Holgas, Lomos and folders can support the film world. I want my digital M6.

Bill

 

[pachuco]

My M3 and my Canon F1N but I am a bit of an opportunist so I'm sure I would be ok with whatever was available to me at the time!

 

[Melvin]

If they quit making film I'll quit photography. i'll never switch to digital. I've tried a DSLR and it was a plastic piece of crap. I'm a photographer because I like film, not the other way around.

 

[Ken Ford]

Melvin, that's too bad.

I'm a photographer because I like making images. The medium is really secondary.