jlw
Rangefinder camera pedant
Six megapixels wasn't "my" figure; it was a figure I calculated, using a certain set of assumptions, and I showed my work in my post so people could make up their own minds whether or not it was legitimate. I didn't just pull out a figure and say "experts agree that X is the magic number."
It's not a question of me believing it or not believing it. As a matter of fact, if you go back and re-read my post, you'll note that my number-twiddling confirmed your figure, if we assume the eye can distinguish 300 points per inch at normal reading distance (the "laser printer" criterion) and that we're looking at our 35mm slide at 20x magnification.
You hadn't spelled out those assumptions, so I had to go back and derive them. The only reason I was doing this was that I wanted to understand where the 18-megapixel figure might have come from, rather than simply accepting it by fiat. So climb down, nobody's biting you in the gizzard.
Not my figure, Kingslake's -- which is why I included a citation. But hey, who cares what dumb ol' Kingslake thought?
DRabbit
Registered
Have and voted for M8. 1/8000 shutter is a must-have for me. I'll be very sad the day it dies and I have a hard time replacing it!
s124am
Member
M9 for now
M9 for now
M9 all the way especially because I got it under the student educators program. I probably won't be a student anymore once something more is released.
M9 for now
M9 all the way especially because I got it under the student educators program. I probably won't be a student anymore once something more is released.
jlw
Rangefinder camera pedant
Interesting! I hadn't realized that Leica had this sort of program. I enjoy the idea of uber-affluent M9 buyers, in effect, being taxed to subsidize the purchases of not-quite-as-affluent student Leica fanciers.
The only current student price list I could find online doesn't list the M9 as an eligible model; maybe the list is just too old. But if the academically privileged get the same 25% discount off the M9 that the list shows off (for example) the 50/0.95 Noctilux, then the M9 suddenly becomes a lot more price-competitive (even if not quite performance-competitive) with Canon/Nikon DSLRs having similar pixel counts.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Ezzie
E. D. Russell Roberts
I've heard the argument for the necessity of a 20Mpx digital sensor to compare favourably to 35mm film since before the year 2000, in fact the claims have ranged from 20 to 100Mpx. It has been used as a argument to not go digital for longer than that. And now it is being used as argument to not make do with anything less than a FF 18Mpx + sensor camera. Quite honestly I couldn't care less. Why compare digital sensors to 35mm film at all? It not as if that is/was the only film format around, nor are APS-C/H or FF the only sensor sizes available either. If you want to go all out, why not compare to MF Phase One digital backs and such? Either I use 6 or 13Mpx doesn't really matter for my use. And if the pixel pitch is the decisive element to why a picture works or not, then I think the picture itself is more lacking in other areas.
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elmer3.5
Well-known
M9 or rd1s
M9 or rd1s
Hi, got an epson, i´m happy with it, great user lots of info easy to change.
My next choice would be an m9, but i´ll have to buy it when i travel to usa!
Not know the m8, but there´s a lot of people complaining about reliability and i´m quite far from USA or Europe so i won´t take any risk!
The only thing bothers me (with the epson) is sensor crop, using 28 mm as 40 with too much dof it´s far beyond than using film!
Bye!
M9 or rd1s
Hi, got an epson, i´m happy with it, great user lots of info easy to change.
My next choice would be an m9, but i´ll have to buy it when i travel to usa!
Not know the m8, but there´s a lot of people complaining about reliability and i´m quite far from USA or Europe so i won´t take any risk!
The only thing bothers me (with the epson) is sensor crop, using 28 mm as 40 with too much dof it´s far beyond than using film!
Bye!
Ron (Netherlands)
Well-known
I voted for my own cam, but actually I think there are only two options: RD1(s,x) or M (8,8.2,8.u,9)
I think I step into the coming M9.2.
I think I step into the coming M9.2.
Davidin10003
Established
I've got an M9 on order
I've got an M9 on order
I'm a recovering dSLR guy. Last year I picked up a voigtlander R2M, and discovered that I really enjoy the rangefinder way of shooting. And with a new baby, I've also discovered that I don't carry my 5DMkII around as much as I used to. (In fact, I can't imagine lugging it along on my next vacation when we take the baby!)
Over the last year, I've been sorely tempted by the RD1 variants. I think what has stopped me is the fact that they are no longer manufactured or supported. I'd hate to fall in love with it and then have it die on me. But I do think it's one of the better executed DRF's out there.
I of course toyed with the idea of the M8 and M8.2. But I just wasn't comfortable with the design compromises (e.g. lens coding, IR cut filters, etc.) and the crop factor.
So a few weeks ago I took the plunge and put down a deposit on an M9. I got a CV Nokton 35/1.4 lens for it, which I've been shooting on my Bessa to get familiar.
I've got an M9 on order
I'm a recovering dSLR guy. Last year I picked up a voigtlander R2M, and discovered that I really enjoy the rangefinder way of shooting. And with a new baby, I've also discovered that I don't carry my 5DMkII around as much as I used to. (In fact, I can't imagine lugging it along on my next vacation when we take the baby!)
Over the last year, I've been sorely tempted by the RD1 variants. I think what has stopped me is the fact that they are no longer manufactured or supported. I'd hate to fall in love with it and then have it die on me. But I do think it's one of the better executed DRF's out there.
I of course toyed with the idea of the M8 and M8.2. But I just wasn't comfortable with the design compromises (e.g. lens coding, IR cut filters, etc.) and the crop factor.
So a few weeks ago I took the plunge and put down a deposit on an M9. I got a CV Nokton 35/1.4 lens for it, which I've been shooting on my Bessa to get familiar.
Saved for an M9, bought a mint-in-box M8. Too much of a price difference to justify the 3x expenditure for my first D-RF for purely amateur applications. If I really like it, M9 money is still in the bank.
Jarle Aasland
Nikon SP/S2, Fuji X100
Frank Dernie
Member
I have RD1, M8 and M9, all great in their own way but the rangefinder of my RD1 needs adjusting too frequently (the Leicas have never needed adjusting). Each is an excellent choice at its price 
The M8 is probably the best price/performance choice at the moment IMO.
The M8 is probably the best price/performance choice at the moment IMO.
I am really liking the M8. Very nice handling. Produces beautiful images. I've had ten different 50mm lenses on it in as many days. Had it out for some night shots this weekend, even tried out the High ISO. Found that ISO 320 and a Canon 50/1.2 was a good match for low-light.
You have to go looking for flaws to fault this camera. Money for an M9 is sitting in a CD, decision on that one can come later.
As an engineer, I would like to see a firmware update to allow 16-Bit data to be stored in the DNG file. The "square-root" trick is "nifty", but using lossless compression on column-wise (with a stride of 2 for the Bayer site) difference frames with Huffman coding would be better. Or just use a 20MByte file and be done with it. As someone that uses lots of old lenses, I'd like to see a Menu option for manual lens selection. But as a "picture-taker", no real complaints. The size and weight of the camera is amazing.
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tedwin
Established
Had been putting money aside for a D700 (upgrade for work from D300) But, by chance, spotted a used M8 in a store with 30 day warranty, mint, 5500 clicks, boxed etc for $1000NZD less than the cheapest D700. Bought it on impulse, got my free filters from Leica. AM NOW LOVING IT!
Bought it as a toy for weekends. Had been using an M3 and ZM.
Took it to work along with usual kit, my excuse was to 'familarise' myself with it. That was last week, this week, left usual kit at home! No, i'm not saying it can become the do it all camera, but on a light work week its proved fine so far. Just highlighting how much fun it is to use & how capable the files are.
Plus my colleagues are jealous
The M8 has always been on my radar, but at the prices they used to be, well, I was pretty rude about them. But now they have become affordable. It really has become a great little camera for the money.
To keep with the thread.
M8.2 for me, loss of 1/8000 shutter speed not good. Plus, still too expensive.
M9, too expensive.
R-D1 family. I had a D70, sensors have come a long way since then, I wouldn't go back to the limited dynamic range and less room for cropping (low resolution)
Bought it as a toy for weekends. Had been using an M3 and ZM.
Took it to work along with usual kit, my excuse was to 'familarise' myself with it. That was last week, this week, left usual kit at home! No, i'm not saying it can become the do it all camera, but on a light work week its proved fine so far. Just highlighting how much fun it is to use & how capable the files are.
Plus my colleagues are jealous
The M8 has always been on my radar, but at the prices they used to be, well, I was pretty rude about them. But now they have become affordable. It really has become a great little camera for the money.
To keep with the thread.
M8.2 for me, loss of 1/8000 shutter speed not good. Plus, still too expensive.
M9, too expensive.
R-D1 family. I had a D70, sensors have come a long way since then, I wouldn't go back to the limited dynamic range and less room for cropping (low resolution)
Fuchs
Well-known
I think an used M8 is the best bang for the buck you can find out there.
I like the RD1 family concept, but the rather outdated sensor (I understand it is the same sensor that was mounted into the Nikon D100, which I used and suffered for some time) puts me off.
I like the RD1 family concept, but the rather outdated sensor (I understand it is the same sensor that was mounted into the Nikon D100, which I used and suffered for some time) puts me off.
squinza
Established
Well, M9 because of its full-frameness
Ezzie
E. D. Russell Roberts
Same sensor it may be, but completely different imaging SW. Avid R-D1 users are probably most happy with the sensor itself, maybe second to ergonomics. The main issue with the sensor is the Mpix count, not the quality of what it captures. The M8 sensor is not exactly new either, though twice the Mpix count.
M9 for sure... it is the most up to date... unfortunately, I cannot bring myself to pay $7000.
Ezzie
E. D. Russell Roberts
Had my pockets been bottomless I´d no doubt have an M9 too, but the R-D1 will stay none the less.
skwp
pritzkerphoto.com
I've owned R-D1 for a year, have leica M8 that I just bought but trying to return because seller didn't warn me it had the pixel banding issue. Both cameras are great. That aside, let's look at what I call "retardations" in both cameras. These are things that to me are obvious
RD-1 retardations:
1. Who thought that a push-pull scroll wheel thingy was a good idea? It makes zooming into your photos damn near impossible. Also the UI is so slow it makes you want to cry. lack of 4 way buttons or normal scrollwheel is what kills the UI on this camera
2. manual wind lever, meaning i have to remember to cock it. i've lost more than one potentially great shot due to the thing not firing.
3. sometimes it just doesn't fire - like when waking from sleep or having a full buffer, you never quite know whether or not it'll go off or not
M8 retardations:
1. why not show the speed in the viewfinder? it's clearly capable of that (and does it in A mode) but why not M mode. in a critical moment of street photography I'm supposed to look away from my viewfinder to find out if I'm set to a fast enough speed? or am i supposed to intuit the speed I'm at from being such an experienced photog. come on...
2. iso and ev setting inside menus instead of on wheel, like on r-d1
(aside: that m8 shutter is actually quite clunky. i'd say louder and more impactful than the higher pitched but subtle r-d1. although this shutter does provide a faster top speed)
these are just some...
RD-1 retardations:
1. Who thought that a push-pull scroll wheel thingy was a good idea? It makes zooming into your photos damn near impossible. Also the UI is so slow it makes you want to cry. lack of 4 way buttons or normal scrollwheel is what kills the UI on this camera
2. manual wind lever, meaning i have to remember to cock it. i've lost more than one potentially great shot due to the thing not firing.
3. sometimes it just doesn't fire - like when waking from sleep or having a full buffer, you never quite know whether or not it'll go off or not
M8 retardations:
1. why not show the speed in the viewfinder? it's clearly capable of that (and does it in A mode) but why not M mode. in a critical moment of street photography I'm supposed to look away from my viewfinder to find out if I'm set to a fast enough speed? or am i supposed to intuit the speed I'm at from being such an experienced photog. come on...
2. iso and ev setting inside menus instead of on wheel, like on r-d1
(aside: that m8 shutter is actually quite clunky. i'd say louder and more impactful than the higher pitched but subtle r-d1. although this shutter does provide a faster top speed)
these are just some...