Which RF for entry level?

[dim]

Hello to everyone (this is my first post).

I was infected by the photographic virus a year ago. I’ve learned to develop and print my films and handle most of the technicalities of the medium. I’ve tried different cameras but when first used the Canonet GIII QL17 I felt in love with RF’s (I own one and also a Zenit-E and a Pentax MZ-M).

But now I need more (the virus I was talking about).

So I thought to ask your advice. I feel that in order to keep up with my photographic progress I need an RF that takes interchangeable lenses, has a bright viewfinder and framelines for each focal length. The first brand that comes to mind is “Leica”. Ok, but are there other brands that fulfill these specifications for entry-level?

Your opinion will be helpful.

Thank you all. Nice to be here.
Dimitris
🙂

 

[bmattock]

Welcome! If you feel that you must have interchangeable lenses, then Leica is a good choice. If you're on a budget, then Cosina/Voigtlander Bessa, perhaps the R, R2, or R3 series. They all take Leica and Leica-mount third-party lenses.

No one camera has framelines for 'all' focal lengths, but the Leicas and the Bessas have framelines for the most common focal lengths. Both have bright viewfinders, both are well-regarded within their classes.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[kmack]

The virus has a name: GAS. You will find most of the members here have it bad.

Check out the Bessa line of camera's, The T's and R's. A lot of info on them can be found in the Bessa fourm on this site.

 

[nemjo]

If virus, let cure it...
What about Hexar RF? OK, not all, but quite a lot brightlines...

nemjo

 

[oftheherd]

Are you stuck on 35mm? The Mamiya Super Press 23 fills the bill for 100mm, 150mm, and 250mm lenses, with viewfinders for 65mm and 50mm. Also has perspective control, interchangable backs, bigger negatives, and a lot more weight. 😀

And you don't really sound like you are at entry level any more. Welcome to the RFF.

 

[peter_n]

Welcome Dimitris! Great to have someone from Greece here! 🙂 The Voigtlander cameras are excellent value for money - the R for thread mount lenses and the R2a or R3a for M-bayonet mount lenses. A good source of info on Cosina Voigtlander is www.cameraquest.com.

 

[ErnestoJL]

Hello Dimitris!
It seem that your target may have very few names, starting for the most known: Leica. Besides there are the Bessas, and a very old one, the Nikon SP. This las would be very expensive, however not impossible to find.
Another good choice in terms of price/performance but with no projected frame lines are the FSU cameras, namely Zorki, FED and Kiev.
Those are not expensive and there are lots of lenses to choose from.
So depending on how much you´ll invest, you have many options.
Ohhhh...that holds true as long as the GAS infection didn´t progress.... later you´ll want all of them...

Regards
Ernesto

 

[Kin Lau]

I'll chime in on the Bessa R. Good and cheap (compared to a Leica that is), and then you still have your choice of LTM lenses, but the CV ones are very good also.

 

[wyk_penguin]

Anyone for the Bessa R2C? I like it just for its sentimental value. But for versatility, go for the Bessa R2, you can use M-mount and LTM lens on it; and it doesn't have a motor wind.
For that reason, I don't like the Hexar (not that having a motor wind it not good, it just isn't "traditional").

 

[richard_l]

If you are interested in a Leica with the bayonet-type lens mount, here are some of the more obvious choices, roughly in order of price.

First would be the Leica M2, which has framelines for 35, 50, and 90mm, but no meter. Next the M3, which has framelines for 50, 90, and 135mm; no meter. Next, the M4-2, which has framelines for 35, 50, 90, and 135mm; no meter. Then the M4-P which has framelines for 28, 35, 50, 75, 90, and 135; no meter. Next (IMO) would be the M6, which has a TTL meter, and the same framelines as the M4-P. The M6 TTL is very similar to the M6, but it has TTL flash metering.

The M4, which has the same framelines as the M4-2 and no meter, seems to be priced inappropriately (high), although it is excellent.

The Leica CL (or Leica Minolta or Leitz Minolta) was actually built by Minolta. It has a TTL meter and framelines for 40, 50, and 90mm. It's probably the least expensive interchangeable lens rangefinder which actually bears the name "Leica."

 

[dim]

Thank you all for your help. 🙂

I’ll sum up:

35mm RFs:
--------------
Bessa T
Bessa R
Bessa R2
Bessa R3
Hexar RF
Nikon SP
Zorki (without frame lines)
FED (without frame lines)
Kiev (without frame lines)
Leica M2
Leica M4
Leica M4-2
Leica M4-P
Leica M6
Leica CL
Minolta CL

MF RFs:
-----------
Mamiya Super Press 23

Next step.

I'll search ebay and classifieds for prices.

 

[Beniliam]

Bessa T with 28/35 lens plus 28/35 viewfinder is an outstanding camera for the street photograph!

 

[Sonnar Brian]

If you want a new camera, and are on a budget, The Bessa R with 35mm lens is a deal that is hard to beat. $399 for camera and lens. Built in meter, projected framelines, takes classic Leica Thread Mount lenses.

http://cameraquest.com/inventor.htm

The Canon 7 should also be mentioned if you want the most inexpensive of the "classic-era" RF cameras. It is a "forty-something" year old camera, has stainless steel shutter curtains, projected framelines for 35-50-85-100-135 lenses, a Selenium meter that is operational/accurate on about half of the cameras, and is an all-metal professional grade camera. With some patience, this camera can be found with a 50mm F1.8 lens for about $400.

The Leica M3 does not have framelines for 35mm focal length, but lenses are available with "eyes" that convert the 50mm framelines into 35mm framelines. It has an exceptional viewfinder, and is best for using telephoto lenses. The Nikon SP has a 1x finder, but will cost more than any of the other cameras listed, mostly due to its limited production number and Nikon Collectors. The Canon 7 finder is as good as the SP, and the cost is 1/10th as much.

 

[rover]

Quite a list has been suggested. The good news is that there are cameras mentioned here that will fit just about any budget. That I think is the key, how much have you allotted for this camera system?

 

[dim]

I haven’t concluded to a budget yet. Up to now I have 400 USD. But I’ll search all the options and then try to put more money in the pot.

The bad think is that I went to a store that sells used Leicas and tried an M2. That’s bad because my illness got worst. My body now is covered by small red Leica logos.

Doctor any cure for that?

 

[Seele]

I haven’t concluded to a budget yet. Up to now I have 400 USD. But I’ll search all the options and then try to put more money in the pot.

The bad think is that I went to a store that sells used Leicas and tried an M2. That’s bad because my illness got worst. My body now is covered by small red Leica logos.

Doctor any cure for that?

The cure: save harder and place an order for a new Zeiss Ikon and a full set of lenses and accessories at your friendly local photographic dealer; I think the Zeiss Ikon logo (especially the original one) looks nicer. 😀

 

[Sonnar Brian]

If the M2 "felt Right", save for it. But figure it will be ~$1,000 for a good user camera and lens. You could buy the Bessa, Canon 7, or toher on your budget now. Then save the difference for the M2. If you keep the camera you buy now in good shape, figure you can resell it for 80% of what you paid for it. The new Bessa will lose more resell than a used Canon 7 ot other older camera that has already "depreciated".

 

[dim]

Thank you all for your guidance and remedies. They will surely help me a lot. Did i say that I'm very glad i joined RFF?

Well if not then:

I'm very glad i joined RFF community. 🙂

This is a quick list i made with the prices found (mostly ebay "buy now" average prices). This is not by any means an accurate price list. Just made for my convenience and thought that may come handy to someone else. Might have mistakes, but I think is a good place a novice in RFs to start with.

35mm RFs:
--------------

<100
--------------
Zorki (without framelines) (LTM)
FED (without framelines) (LTM)
Kiev (without framelines) (LTM)

100-300 (USD)
--------------
Bessa T (M bayonet)
Bessa R (LTM)
Canon P (LTM)

300-500 (USD)
--------------
Leica CL (M bayonet)
Minolta CL (M bayonet)
Canon 7 (LTM)

500-700 (USD)
--------------
Bessa R2 (M bayonet)
Bessa R3 (M bayonet)
Leica M2 (M bayonet)
Leica M3 (M bayonet)

700-1000 (USD)
-------------
Leica M4-2 (M bayonet)

1000-Sky high (USD)
--------------
Hexar RF (M bayonet)
Leica M4 (M bayonet)
Leica M4-P (M bayonet)
Leica M6 (M bayonet)
Nikon SP (Nikon ?)

MF RFs:
-----------
Mamiya Super Press 23 (Price not found)

LOL.
Dimitris

 

[richard_l]

The bad think is that I went to a store that sells used Leicas and tried an M2. That’s bad because my illness got worst. My body now is covered by small red Leica logos.

Doctor any cure for that?

As you probably know, there is only one cure.

By the way, the M2 is my favorite of all the Leicas. I have one, and it's a real pleasure to use. I think it's the ultimate in simplicity and elegance.

Richard

 

[dim]

I’ cured!

I finally bought an M2, a 39 to M adapter and a Serenar 1.9. I paid for those about 600 USD. The M2 seems ok. Speeds sound right, viewfinder is clear and contrasty (wow), shutter curtains looks ok. I have some troubles with Serenar. The aperture ring is hard to turn, so it moves the barrel to "unlock" position (thanks Kin and Brian). I plan to send the whole package for CLA, and see… I hope the camera is ok.

But before CLA I’ll shoot a roll. I just can’t wait...you know?

I’m sure you do.
🙂